VSC/TRAC behavior

[Millerrh]

I'm curious what the expected behavior of the VSC/TRAC system should be on wet pavement.

I seem to have a very hard time keeping my rear end from sliding around whenever the ground is wet and I am accelerating out of a turn. Even if I try to baby it and not accelerate hard, my rear tires will slip.

I am coming from an Audi with their AWD Quattro platform where you couldn't get the wheels to slip if you tried your hardest. I realize it's probably not going to be that good, but every other car I've owned, including a Tundra, seemed to perform way better in the rain. This feels a lot less safe by comparison. It's almost as if there is no traction control doing anything to prevent the tires from spinning.

Am I expecting too much? Or does this sound like a potential problem with the way the system is working to you guys?

 

[spizike9]

Weird. Last night I was out in the dirt and was trying to get sideways and I couldn't because my system wouldn't let me. Then I remembered about it and turned it off. Then the fun started.

 

[mrblah]

I'm curious what the expected behavior of the VSC/TRAC system should be on wet pavement.

I seem to have a very hard time keeping my rear end from sliding around whenever the ground is wet and I am accelerating out of a turn. Even if I try to baby it and not accelerate hard, my rear tires will slip.

I am coming from an Audi with their AWD Quattro platform where you couldn't get the wheels to slip if you tried your hardest. I realize it's probably not going to be that good, but every other car I've owned, including a Tundra, seemed to perform way better in the rain. This feels a lot less safe by comparison. It's almost as if there is no traction control doing anything to prevent the tires from spinning.

Am I expecting too much? Or does this sound like a potential problem with the way the system is working to you guys?

maybe some more weight in the back might help.

 

[johnbt]

I surprised. And we get a lot of rain here.

I have well over 6k miles on mine and I can only think of 3 times I've had even a little bit of wheel spin on pavement - and they were all because of a little gravel on the pavement when I was pulling away from a stop sign into traffic.

I've owned an AWD Highlander and an AWD Forester with a limited slip diff on the rear axle and still drive like it. It's hard to believe my truck is rear wheel drive. Of course, I'm an old guy who learned to drive on rear well drive cars from the '50s and '60s when they didn't have any driver-assist gizmos and the tires of the era sucked.

 

[Millerrh]

Could it also be the tires? I have the Nitto Terra Grapplers. Or should the system still sense the shipping and do something despite the tires?

I take it I should notice a light in the dashboard (either TRAC or car with wiggly lines under it) light up. Thus far I don't recall seeing those mid traction loss. But my attention was directed elsewhere as I was worried about not crashing. I'll try to test it out something and see if I can get those systems to kick in and watch for the lights.

 

[johnbt]

I thought about the tires, but they should be average at least.

Here: Nitto Terra Grappler Tire Reviews (98 Reviews)

Customer reviews give them 3.5 out of 5 for wet.

Fwiw, my TEP came with the terribly mediocre Bridgestone Dueler 684.
www.1010tires.com/Tires/Bridgestone/Dueler+H-T+(D684+II)

Wet = 2.4
Heck, Dry is only 3.3 and Snow is 2.1

 

[Millerrh]

I thought about the tires, but they should be average at least.

Here: Nitto Terra Grappler Tire Reviews (98 Reviews)

Customer reviews give them 3.5 out of 5 for wet.

Fwiw, my TEP came with the terribly mediocre Bridgestone Dueler 684.
www.1010tires.com/Tires/Bridgestone/Dueler+H-T+(D684+II)

Wet = 2.4
Heck, Dry is only 3.3 and Snow is 2.1

I get that tires with poorer wet traction would slip more, but my assumption about how the traction control systems worked is they would prevent slippage due to power delivery. So if you had poor traction tires, that system would just work harder/more often than it would if you had good traction tires. But in both cases you should be able to take a turn at a reasonable speed without worrying about fish tailing. Am I wrong about that assumption? Or are these tires strictly to blame and the trac control just can only do so much to fight physics? I just can't knock the feeling that something is wrong because this vehicle acts so different from my Tundra or other sedans I've owned. I get that this is not a sedan and shouldn't drive like one, just trying to figure out if this amount of lack of control is typical of if the system isn't working as intended.

Edit: pretty sure my Tundra also came with the Duelers and didn't have this issue with them on it. But the Tundra was also heavier. That might be part of the reason.

 

[(none)]

As noted above, what tires are you running?

I always thought that was part of the rwd fun, the sideways action in the rain. Im on Cooper Maxx S/Ts, they seem to do really well in the rain. That being said, I can also stop on the gas from a stop in the rain and have the VSC light blinking well into 2nd gear.

You are no longer driving an all wheel drive car (I've had 3 quattros, they are amazing, nothing else is going to get traction like it), you have to recalibrate you actions. Or get a limited with the Torsen center diff (same diff as the "good" quattros)

 

[BobsTrail]

I copied this from an old post of mine:

Traction Control and VSC

During a light rain I turned off Trac but not VSC, Hit the power in a right turn and got good wheel spin but no fishtail.

Turned Trac on, tried the same turn again and no wheel spin, I could feel the traction control grabbing and releasing and it just took off. This was in 2wd.
.
You may need to go to the dealer and hope they know how to test and fix it.

 

[johnbt]

I'm beginning to believe there's something wrong with the vehicle, or you're stomping the gas pedal trying to make it faster than it is.

Too much ArmorAll on the tire tread?


My now ex-wife helped me out one day by ArmorAll-ing my steering wheel, shift knob and all the pedals on my Subaru.

 

[AggieOE]

I'm beginning to believe there's something wrong with the vehicle, or you're stomping the gas pedal trying to make it faster than it is.

Too much ArmorAll on the tire tread?


My now ex-wife helped me out one day by ArmorAll-ing my steering wheel, shift knob and all the pedals on my Subaru.

This. When people think they're helping but are making life miserable. Same for car wash places too.

 

[Millerrh]

When the tires start slipping, is the Slip Indicator light supposed to light up showing you that the system is working?

Because I just did a spirited accelerating right turn on some gravel and got the tires to spin without any lights lighting up.

I also found this in the manual that seems to imply this indicator only lights up when there is a malfunction, not when it is actively doing its job. So wanting to confirm if I should expect a light to come on when it is trying to prevent slippage.
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[wfo9]

Mine is very sensitive in the rain and even mud. I don't even feel the tires spinning but I hear the abs pump pulsing and the throttle let up at times... I've never tried to hammer on it though out of a corner...it's not a sports car.

Something is off if you don't hear it kicking in. It makes a noise and flashes the light.

 

[Millerrh]

Mine is very sensitive in the rain and even mud. I don't even feel the tires spinning but I hear the abs pump pulsing and the throttle let up at times... I've never tried to hammer on it though out of a corner...it's not a sports car.

Something is off if you don't hear it kicking in. It makes a noise and flashes the light.

I was only trying to hammer on it to test the system. I have a feeling mine isn't working at all so trying to troubleshoot it.

 

[4Rager]

Every time I've had the VSC/TRAC engage the light on the dash blinks to show it's doing something. When testing it out on dirt, pressing the button once will disengage TRAC which will allow for wheelspin in a straight line, but will still engage VSC which will cut power if you try to do donuts or get sideways. If you hold down the TRAC/VSC button while in P it will deactivate both VSC & TRAC and you are now free to do donuts/slide out the rear.

This is coming from a TEP with open rear diff. The SR5 with LSD might be different.

EDIT: I see you have a TRDP so it should be the same as my experience. I'm guessing you must go pretty heavy on the throttle, cuz the 4.0 doesn't really have much power unless you get on it.

 

[Millerrh]

Every time I've had the VSC/TRAC engage the light on the dash blinks to show it's doing something. When testing it out on dirt, pressing the button once will disengage TRAC which will allow for wheelspin in a straight line, but will still engage VSC which will cut power if you try to do donuts or get sideways. If you hold down the TRAC/VSC button while in P it will deactivate both VSC & TRAC and you are now free to do donuts/slide out the rear.

This is coming from a TEP with open rear diff. The SR5 with LSD might be different.

EDIT: I see you have a TRDP so it should be the same as my experience. I'm guessing you must go pretty heavy on the throttle, cuz the 4.0 doesn't really have much power unless you get on it.

Not really, that's my entire point to this thread. In the rain, I can barely put enough throttle down to move forward and my back end will spin out. I think my VSC/TRAC system isn't working properly and trying to do some investigating/testing to confirm that before I bring into the dealer for them to look at.

And this is without intentionally disengaging the system, which I know you can do. So when I want it to keep my wheels from slipping, I am easily without much throttle able to get them to slip AND get no lights flashing on the dash telling me that the VSC/TRAC system is working.

 

[Saker]

I was only trying to hammer on it to test the system. I have a feeling mine isn't working at all so trying to troubleshoot it.

I can tell you it isn't working.
Look in your owners manual to see if there are any fuses in the cab or in the engine bay for the system.

the system can't tell what kind of tires you have and detects wheel slippage and yaw...
time to take it to someone...dealership, not some yahoooo!

 

[Millerrh]

I can tell you it isn't working.
Look in your owners manual to see if there are any fuses in the cab or in the engine bay for the system.

the system can't tell what kind of tires you have and detects wheel slippage and yaw...
time to take it to someone...dealership, not some yahoooo!

I checked and did not notice any fuses marked with VSC or TRAC. So I will be calling into the dealership and letting them take a look at this. Thanks for all your input guys, really made me realize something is wrong here and it's not how this vehicle is supposed to behave. Now that I hav experienced this, I can see how turning these off during off road use could be a lot of fun though.

 

[Millerrh]

Went to the dealer today to have them check this and they said there is no way to check for proper system behavior except to reproduce the problem. So I have to wait until it's raining again and then go in on a moment's notice and drive with a tech.

He was also implying that maybe there actually wasn't anything wrong and it wasn't supposed to actively stop spinning tires and fishtailing. Blaming it on too much torque for the rain on accelerating turns. He also mentioned that the system should really only engage when one tire is spinning more than the other. Which I thought might have been incorrect.

To be fair, the one time I really notice this issue without fail is when I'm leaving my office. I live on the frontage road of a highway, so when I leave, I turn right from a stop and have to accelerate to merge with traffic usually. It's that acceleration from a stop in first gear while turning right in the rain that can get the back end super squirrely.

So I just want to be really clear: If all of you guys were at a stop and you accelerated while turning right in the rain, could you even get your tires to spin and back end to slide if you really wanted to? Or does this system prevent that behavior all together?

 

[starview]

On a turn and accelerate on wet and slick pavement - mine will spin the tires, start to slip then the system cuts power.