...in Toyota's secret Books of Knowledge, comprising a collection of design and testing data?
Toyota's deadly secrets
Toyota's deadly secrets
was anything relevant to Gen3 4Runners revealed?
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Nelsonmd
New member
From the "American Association for Justice", formerly the "Association of Trial Lawyers of America"... Always check who the information is coming from...
Lawyers and lawmakers don't know anything about making vehicles, but both can profit greatly from vilifying and attacking a foreign company that is kicking the crap out of US companies.
I am not saying that everything in that article was false, but I do see a number of half truths and likely misrepresentations. I drive a toyota, and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one and take my family in it. I am much more worried about the industry/designs as a whole, such as the electronic throttle control vs direct mechanical control, electronic brake control, and general overcomplication of nearly every component. It all increases the cost of repair, decreases the ability for home repair, and provides more opportunities for defects.
As for the "books of knowledge", I read that as Toyota's proprietary design information and testing, and intellectual property. It isn't necessarily damning data that shows they are putting people at risk. Every company out there generates data that when taken out of context (like a lawyer or lawmaker wouldn't hesitate to do if it profited them) looks unsafe, but it is just the reality of the engineering world. Every company has this kind of thing, and yeah, they would all settle a lawsuit to prevent that information being taken as evidence and exposed to their competitors and trial/personal injury lawyers the world over through the public record.
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Ed_C
Senior Member
Irrelevant. The vehicles investigated for unintended acceleration were drive-by-wire,no physical throttle cable controlling the throttle body.
I wasn't too surprised reading about their new suppliers having lower standards than them or how longtime employees warned about a decline in craftsmanship. They had to cut corners somewhere to crank out all that volume.
I wasn't too surprised reading about their new suppliers having lower standards than them or how longtime employees warned about a decline in craftsmanship. They had to cut corners somewhere to crank out all that volume.
Nelsonmd
New member
What do you mean irrelevant, I know the accelerating vehicles were drive by wire, that is the entire point. The cable system of an old style throttle control system like the 4runner is exceedingly simple, with relatively few possibilities for failure (And many years of experience, so the failure modes are all very well understood and preventable). A drive by wires system has sensors, motors, and software with many points that could fail.
I do agree about handling many new suppliers, though not totally, they still have very strict specs their suppliers have to meet (I work for one of their suppliers, so I know it first hand). The general decline in quality I can also believe pretty easily, but most every company experiences that, the American ones certainly do too which is why they have lost so much of their reputation and their market share. My point was that when you increase the complexity of every fundamental system on the vehicle, you become more sensitive to quality issues, and in the case of fundamental systems, they are quality issues on safety critical components. Also, when they have to meet arbitrary government regulations, and protect themselves against liability by testing to what a court will be convinced of instead of what is technically required, you open the door for latent failures because you have removed experience from the equation.
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Ed_C
Senior Member
Sorry,I was responding to the OP's question,wasn't commenting on your post. Since our generation 4Runners aren't DBW they're not relevant in that investigation.
And semi-off topic,did you use a 96-98 grill for your Satoshi mod?
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BrianSD_42
New member
I feel like you just described my over-engineered 2006 BMW 330i.
Stick Figure
New member
and why you won't catch me in a show room signing my life away for a new car any time soon. Technology and government intervention have gone far beyond what I want my car to do.
shadow247
New member
Good to know. Looks like I'll be sticking with an under 2000 for my next Runner.
Singtoe
New member
The only mechanical link is that it will open the throttle for a limp home mode. 100% of the operation is DBW.
All that has to happen is the stepper motor gears break, jam open and the motor will be stuck at that rpm. Or the cruise control drops a mosfet and pins the throttle wide open.
Anything can happen. Learn to drive and deal with situation. If the throttle sticks open, push the shifter into neutral. Pull over and then turn the motor off.
absalom
New member
Lol seriously. I don't understand how those idiots crashed a Prius with a jammed throttle. Let's say you're driving a Prius at 20 mph and the throttle jams WO, you rocket from 20 to over 30 mph in just under 10 minutes. Are we to believe that in that eternity, the driver didn't have time or mental capacity to change the gear selector and apply the breaks?
shadow247
New member
I seem to remember a prominent auto magazine (Motor Trend?) doing a test on these Toyota models that supposedly were running away and couldn't be stopped. They said they were able to overpower the engine just by holding the brake as hard as they could.
I've had a motorcycle throttle hang wide open on me, and it was not fun. I just pulled the clutch, hit the kill switch, the shifted to neutral and used my brakes to stop.
brian4t
New member
I never would have thought this, I assumed since the throttle and cruise cables were right on top it was not drive by wire.
tyr0981
New member
All this conspiracy stuff makes my tingle!
Domestic manufacturers (the big three) are just churning out the cheapened heaps of plastic with Mexican steel, and gutamala electronics now-a-days....
Glorified 'garbage cans' is what Ford, Chevy, and Crapler now produce (my personal opinion there) But i just went to the Portland International Auto Show yesterday and even the Kia's where outclassing some of the Cadillacs features in some respects!
:wtf:
i'd love to support a home grown car manufacturer, but None of them have been able to keep up with the times, they play catch up then it all goes wrong, and they blame it on some BS that nobody else is having issues with.... it's sad i say that we invented the car, and everyone else lead the way on improvements and evolution ever since.
hwell:
Domestic manufacturers (the big three) are just churning out the cheapened heaps of plastic with Mexican steel, and gutamala electronics now-a-days....
Glorified 'garbage cans' is what Ford, Chevy, and Crapler now produce (my personal opinion there) But i just went to the Portland International Auto Show yesterday and even the Kia's where outclassing some of the Cadillacs features in some respects!
:wtf:
i'd love to support a home grown car manufacturer, but None of them have been able to keep up with the times, they play catch up then it all goes wrong, and they blame it on some BS that nobody else is having issues with.... it's sad i say that we invented the car, and everyone else lead the way on improvements and evolution ever since.
hwell:
pat161
New member
That's it, I tried to give this site another chance, but now I see its useless. Enjoy worrying about ridiculous things and giving advice where none was asked for or needed.
Stick Figure
New member
I was pretty impressed with thread staying pretty civil, what don't you agree with?
As far as learning to drive with it, how do you expect people to learn to react to a problem situation when all of the new cars are designed to baby sit the drivers decisions.
and a better question who else is scared to death of the new Nissan/Infiniti steer by wire system?
https://www.google.com/search?q=inf...sugexp=chrome,mod=15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Singtoe
New member
All the jumbo jets are fly by wire.
I believe that all the ocean going ships are drive by wire. Well - Captain tells the first mate who tells the rudder men which changes the direction of the boat.
The nissan steer by wire is mechanically backed up from what I read.
Stuck throttles has always been a problem. In Drivers Ed, we were taught that if the accelerator was stuck open, we were to step on the accelerator even more to free it up.
brian4t
New member
Please tell me this is a joke. If you don't want to promote discussion don't visit a forum that promotes discussion...
what funny is Toyota was cleared of any wrong doing and then this happens..
Vehicle's accelerator gets stuck on I-35 - YouTube KIA
a real run away car with video proof and the media does not even care because its not threat to the big 3
Vehicle's accelerator gets stuck on I-35 - YouTube KIA
a real run away car with video proof and the media does not even care because its not threat to the big 3
