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watches...
- Thread starter MtnT4R
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dwc
Guest
Not sure. I'm not a watch expert *at all*. I got this one from the Long Island Watch Company over the internet. As my age has increased, my ability to see has decreased, so I was looking for a largish (42mm) watch with a simple face. This is what I ended up with. Anyway, they have a write up on Laco on the site. It's an interesting read if you're a watch aficionado....
Thai
Elite Member
So, after this Hamilton purchase, you have effectively spent the equivalent of the TAG that you wanted earlier on 5 watches, right? Oh well.
Here is a post about a Hamilton watch from WATCHUSEEK:
"I had the 38mm Khaki Field Auto that I bought from Macy's. I have a 7 inch wrist and the watch looked perfectly sized for my wrist. Later, I had regretted getting this smaller size and should have went for the 42 mm, but read on. The watch ran +15 sec/day from the very start. I decided to give it some time to "break in" as some people here suggested. Then, 4 months later, the watch was running +57 sec/day. I sent it in to Swatch for repair under warranty. They sent me a letter back saying that "the movement is running poorly", that my warranty from Macy's was not valid and that it would cost $180 to repair the watch. The warranty was not valid because the salesperson did not write down the reference number for the watch on the form. At the time of purchase, I had to insist on him even stamping the booklet with the Macy's stamp. I took the watch back to Macy's and they offered to send it in for me. I insisted on getting a brand new watch (same one) and then promptly returned it for a refund. I have no patience for a watch that can't tell time. That was my only experience with Hamilton, with so many other great choices out there I don't need to jerk around with a sub-par watch and I doubt I'll ever give them another try.
Oh, and the crown on the Hamilton was pulled out too easily. I wear latex gloves for much of my work, and every third time I took gloves off, the crown was pulled out by the cuff of the glove. I had to start paying attention to it every time, since I always wash my hands after I take the gloves off and I didn't want water to sneak in. "
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This is just one experience...but it does show you that no one brand is perfect...and some suffer from possible design defects. You complain about a Tag problem that you read about on forums...well, Hamilton has a design deficiency where the crown is pulled out way too easy and the watch does not hold precision after a while. Poor regulation...and poor long term accuracy. No thanks...I will take the Tag now!
BTW, my brother's Hamilton suffered the same fate...accuracy/precision was all over the place. READ AGAIN above post about the different levels of ETA movements that are sent out depending on deep watch manufacturer's pockets are.
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hikenbike
New member
So, after this Hamilton purchase, you have effectively spent the equivalent of the TAG that you wanted earlier on 5 watches, right? Oh well.
Here is a post about a Hamilton watch from WATCHUSEEK:
"I had the 38mm Khaki Field Auto that I bought from Macy's. I have a 7 inch wrist and the watch looked perfectly sized for my wrist. Later, I had regretted getting this smaller size and should have went for the 42 mm, but read on. The watch ran +15 sec/day from the very start. I decided to give it some time to "break in" as some people here suggested. Then, 4 months later, the watch was running +57 sec/day. I sent it in to Swatch for repair under warranty. They sent me a letter back saying that "the movement is running poorly", that my warranty from Macy's was not valid and that it would cost $180 to repair the watch. The warranty was not valid because the salesperson did not write down the reference number for the watch on the form. At the time of purchase, I had to insist on him even stamping the booklet with the Macy's stamp. I took the watch back to Macy's and they offered to send it in for me. I insisted on getting a brand new watch (same one) and then promptly returned it for a refund. I have no patience for a watch that can't tell time. That was my only experience with Hamilton, with so many other great choices out there I don't need to jerk around with a sub-par watch and I doubt I'll ever give them another try.
Oh, and the crown on the Hamilton was pulled out too easily. I wear latex gloves for much of my work, and every third time I took gloves off, the crown was pulled out by the cuff of the glove. I had to start paying attention to it every time, since I always wash my hands after I take the gloves off and I didn't want water to sneak in. "
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This is just one experience...but it does show you that no one brand is perfect...and some suffer from possible design defects. You complain about a Tag problem that you read about on forums...well, Hamilton has a design deficiency where the crown is pulled out way too easy and the watch does not hold precision after a while. Poor regulation...and poor long term accuracy. No thanks...I will take the Tag now!
BTW, my brother's Hamilton suffered the same fate...accuracy/precision was all over the place. READ AGAIN above post about the different levels of ETA movements that are sent out depending on deep watch manufacturer's pockets are.
1. You're comparing a $400 Hamilton to a Tag? The Tag has a whole other level of expectations as far as I'm concerned.
2. The Hammy watch above is not the watch I pointed out. Not by a long shot. $500 Msrp vs $1200 msrp. Look it up. Like you said, you usually get what you pay for. And I never said I was buying it. Just like to keep it on the list of potentials.
3. Find me dozens and dozens of complaints about your Hammy like I found about that one Tag model. You probably can't. A handful maybe. Not dozens or probably hundreds (because I stopped looking) like the Tag.
Hey, I'm not killing Tag here. They make a very nice product. I just had a bit of bad luck in that my first foray with them was with a model that had a troublesome phase and I found it unacceptable. Back it went. But I can surely see possibly being interested in a future model. I didn't like the model that replaced the one I bought and it was $1k more so I walked away.
My main point is that I like having fun now with lower end but still fantastic watches so that sometime down the road when I am looking for that one special high-end watch, I have a really good idea of what it want and expect. Playing games and having doubts at that level can be financially painful so best to be damn sure.
Thai
Elite Member
BTW, you won't find many complaints about Hamilton because there are fewer watch folks buying it...thus, the sample size is much smaller! So, just because you can't find a lot of complaints on Hamilton does NOT mean that it is not there. At the same time, a Tag has a lot of owners...thus, you will naturally see more complaints because sample size is much bigger.
Just keep that in mind...and my prior post regarding different ETA levels.
Just keep that in mind...and my prior post regarding different ETA levels.
hikenbike
New member
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dwc
Guest
Interesting. Never seen one of these before. I'll have to start working the forearms big time before a 47mm watch will fit my wrist!
Thai
Elite Member
A few random options that I like:
Seiko MEN Watch Perpetual Calendar Warranty BOX SNQ137 SNQ137P1 | eBay
Sapphire crystal. Perpetual calendar. Battery, of course. 40mm. Not bad deal!
This is the Premier version of the above watch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-PREMI...268285989?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3cd4cdaa25
Cost a lot more!
And then you have these: The SKJ Kinetic divers: gone but not forgotten
These are highly sought after because they were "divers," Kinetic, and had Sapphlex crystal. Here is a thread all about these divers: Show your Seiko Kinetic's SKJ001P, SKJ003P, SKJ004P, SKJ0137P and SKJ031P
Seiko MEN Watch Perpetual Calendar Warranty BOX SNQ137 SNQ137P1 | eBay
Sapphire crystal. Perpetual calendar. Battery, of course. 40mm. Not bad deal!
This is the Premier version of the above watch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEIKO-PREMI...268285989?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item3cd4cdaa25
Cost a lot more!
And then you have these: The SKJ Kinetic divers: gone but not forgotten
These are highly sought after because they were "divers," Kinetic, and had Sapphlex crystal. Here is a thread all about these divers: Show your Seiko Kinetic's SKJ001P, SKJ003P, SKJ004P, SKJ0137P and SKJ031P
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hikenbike
New member
All nice watches above and they have the classic Seiko look, affordability, and performance. Everyone should own one in one form or another. I'm still stoked about the Hamilton and also the mechanical version of this VSA Dive Master 500 (with ETA 2892-A2). I chose the Helson (Miyota 9015) over this VSA but it will be in my future. A couple are for sale on WUS in great condition for $600 (msrp $1250).......
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Thai
Elite Member
So, you bought the Helson already? Miyota 9015 is a fairly new movement on the market...designed in 2009 or something but hasn't appeared in mass produced watches until last year I think. Not much track record on it, but I do read varying "internet stories" about wide ranging accuracy. From outside pics, it looks like ETA-2892 more so than ETA-2824, which is what Miyota is aiming for (2824).
For the most part, these Miyota movements are unregulated from factory (unlike most ETA movements in higher end brand)...so, that is why most of these watches have -30 to +30 seconds/day range accuracy (best that a factory machine can do in terms of calibration). An unadjusted watch can have large positional variation...therefore making it difficult to adjust the movement to even within COSC specs. (-4/+6 sec/day). So, you better have a good watchmaker with proper equipment in his lab! Or you may get lucky! (Again, this is why getting a higher brand watch, preferably with COSC regulation important...less headache to deal after sale. But, as mentioned above, you do pay more.)
Not sure if you know this, but there is a reason why you now see all these independent movements coming onto market. SWATCH company as a whole will be limiting distribution of their ETA movements. (I could be outdated, but this was the aim of SWATCH CEO 2 years ago.) In other words, small companies that previously rely on ETA for their movements will be cut off entirely! Only the big companies, like TAG, Ulyssee Nardin, and Breitling for examples, will continue to be able to buy ETA movements from SWATCH. But, as you can expect, this is why TAG has recently introduced movements of their own on their high-end chronos...they know what is coming around the corner in the future...SWATCH possibly screwing them by stopping making movements for them.
So, yeah, there will be a pouring of new movements from unknown folks in the next few years as substitute for ETA movements.
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Victor_inox
New member
9015 is easily regulated movement, any watchmaker can do that for about $50/60.
Victor_inox
New member
Only problem with black case is that after first scratch it looks like crap.
I can`t bring myselt to owning one just for that reason alone.
hikenbike
New member
Yes, I bought the Helson and received it 2 weeks ago. Shark Diver 42mm. Love it. Very heavy and well made. It's been fluctuating about 10-15 sec +\- each day. Super precise time is not imperative for me. If I have to adjust it once a week when it gets to be a minute off it doesn't matter to me.
hikenbike
New member
Many that own it state that it honestly doesn't scratch as easily as you'd think. But honestly, I don't mind scratches. Makes it look used and gives it character the way a meaningful watch should. The same way off-roaders love their scratches.
There also are others that don't have the black case.
Victor_inox
New member
So if I managed to keep my watch in pristine condition for 3 years it`s somehow less meaningful?
Black layer does scratch, I don``t care what not so easily means for some people. I`ve seen enough supposedly unscratcheable watches with scratches all over. same reason I don`t like Titanium watches, it scratches and looks like shit. Of course I can take it apart and sand blast case and bracelet for even cooler look but after couple of times it became annoying.
hikenbike
New member
No. Poor choice of words on my part.
Thai
Elite Member
Not sure about you, but I hate scratches on anything! I know that off-roaders say those silly things, but I am sure that they only say it to feel better about themselves! When I was off-roading, I wanted to do everything possible to minimize damage to my vehicles. Why would I want scratches? And everyone in my group is the same way.
For watches, this is the same way. Scratches suck, no matter how you put it. At least with metal, you can buff it out. What do you do with a black watch? Re-paint it? Re-coat it?
But, Victorinox is right...black sucks...the same reason why black paint on cars sucks (personal experience).
Titanium is soft (from what I hear) and that is why they scratch easily. My Seiko is titanium and it scratches just from me looking at it the wrong way!
Thai
Elite Member
Unlike you, i have not had a good experience with watchmaker regulation. The ONLY time that i had to do it was with my Omega Deville Coaxial (original one back early 1990's). It had caliber 2500B. My watchmaker who also sold me the watch (Authorized Dealer) was trained by Omega to regulate the Coaxial. It took me two trips back and forth (after sale) to the watchmaker for regulating. And this is with a COSC certified watch.
Without proper regulation to different positions (and temps, etc.) at the factory, the variation in rate by position could be very big. So, although the watchmaker can regulate post-sale, it does not mean that positional variation in rate will be good.
Thai
Elite Member
This is from an old post:
"What exactly is my (and most watchmakers) definition of an accurate movement. Easy, one that is consistently easy to get good amplitude and good timing from, and doesn’t have undue loss of balance amplitude from the horizontal to the vertical positions. COSC quality timing can be achieved by most good quality movements, but ones that are inherently accurate don’t require any special skills or hours of delicate tweaking to achieve that goal. If one achieves outstanding timing from a movement after many hours of tweaking, to me that’s not a reflection of how accurate the movement is, but rather a reflection of how talented the adjuster is. As has been pointed out before, almost any movement can achieve outstanding timing if enough time, effort and talent are spent on it by one who is an expert in that area.
On the other hand, if most watchmakers can achieve outstanding timing with a minimum of time and adjustments, that’s a reflection of the inherent accuracy of the movement. Of course there’ll be those that disagree with me. This is just the way that I see these things."
"What exactly is my (and most watchmakers) definition of an accurate movement. Easy, one that is consistently easy to get good amplitude and good timing from, and doesn’t have undue loss of balance amplitude from the horizontal to the vertical positions. COSC quality timing can be achieved by most good quality movements, but ones that are inherently accurate don’t require any special skills or hours of delicate tweaking to achieve that goal. If one achieves outstanding timing from a movement after many hours of tweaking, to me that’s not a reflection of how accurate the movement is, but rather a reflection of how talented the adjuster is. As has been pointed out before, almost any movement can achieve outstanding timing if enough time, effort and talent are spent on it by one who is an expert in that area.
On the other hand, if most watchmakers can achieve outstanding timing with a minimum of time and adjustments, that’s a reflection of the inherent accuracy of the movement. Of course there’ll be those that disagree with me. This is just the way that I see these things."
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