Water for fuel conversion kit?

dk984runnerlmtd

New member
Hey all,

I was wondering if any of you on here have heard of the water for fuel conversion kit, and if so, has anyone actually installed one? Any results?

My roommate told me about it a few weeks ago. Here's a link to the site:
http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=moneybeat

I don't know, I think it sounds too good to be true, but I've never spoken to anyone who has actually done it.
 
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I'm pretty sure if that were true... that crap would be all over the news.

p.s. Rising gas prices? What about rising water prices??? I paid 1.25 for 8oz today! [/smartass]. Seriously though.
 
simple said:
I'm pretty sure if that were true... that crap would be all over the news.

p.s. Rising gas prices? What about rising water prices??? I paid 1.25 for 8oz today! [/smartass]. Seriously though.

haha. Yeah, I thought about that, but I think it really just comes down to corporate sponsorship and advertising dollars. Since this small company has no major financial backing, there is no advertising money.

News networks rely on advertising dollars, so if an oil company like Chevron or Shell has a commercial contract with one of the networks, they might pull their funding if they feel threatened by a company that promotes an alternative fuel.

Oil companies have their greedy hands in almost every facet of corporate America. If they don't like something, they will make sure to put an end to it. Maybe this isn't a scam and it's just not receiving exposure for this reason. I don't know, just one theory.
 
IMHO I think that is a bunch of BS. In one of the pictures it shows a hook up on a diesel engine, they claim and it's not even a diesel engine. If this was legit it would be all over the place. It's a scam to sell useless books. Feel free to try it and let us know?
 
I saw a PT Cruiser yesterday on the freeway that was converted

It had that water4gas sign on each side + the back window.

I found it interesting, but I never went to the site. Maybe now I will!


edit - so I checked it out.. turns out they're creating HHO and injecting it into the air intake path. They also use some electronic box to "trick" the MAP/MAF sensor, I think to fool the ECU into thinking its running very rich, thus reducing the amt of gas being injected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen_flame

HHO is a flammable gas created from water.

I can see the potential here.. maybe I'll try it out on my Dakota. Its got over 161,000mi on it and still runs great. It would make a good test vehicle.
 
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banker1 said:
I've seen quite a few video's on Youtube in which people have converted their engines to run on water or a water/ gas mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQEBW9UFNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9iWaCMbw60

Not sure how much time and energy goes into this, it is extremely interesting!

Yeah, I've seen those videos, too. I'm only gonna try it if I talk to at least several people first-hand who have done it and have gotten good results.

I do know that all the technology involved to make the conversion is relatively simple... I've heard that it costs less than $200 to do it. On the other hand, I've also head that if done incorrectly, the conversion can cause serious problems, like the detonation of the HHO "chamber" under the hood! No good, man, no good.
 
thrak said:
I saw a PT Cruiser yesterday on the freeway that was converted

It had that water4gas sign on each side + the back window.

I found it interesting, but I never went to the site. Maybe now I will!


edit - so I checked it out.. turns out they're creating HHO and injecting it into the air intake path. They also use some electronic box to "trick" the MAP/MAF sensor, I think to fool the ECU into thinking its running very rich, thus reducing the amt of gas being injected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen_flame

HHO is a flammable gas created from water.

I can see the potential here.. maybe I'll try it out on my Dakota. Its got over 161,000mi on it and still runs great. It would make a good test vehicle.

You should try it and let us know! :D
 
You can't be serious... As the man says there is no free lunch. Save your money (and pride) and just lighten up on the right foot to save fuel. Don't listen to the marketing hype it is BS. Lemmings learn to late.
 
steve germany said:
You can't be serious... As the man says there is no free lunch. Save your money (and pride) and just lighten up on the right foot to save fuel. Don't listen to the marketing hype it is BS. Lemmings learn to late.

Well, this is a good way to find out if it is bs or not: by talking to others who have tried it. You can't knock it 'til you try it or someone you know has tried it. If you live by your mentality... man, that's a pretty closed off existence.
 
mmmmm, snake oil! You'll no doubt see more and more of these scams pop up as fuel prices climb. People like to take advantage of the hysteria. Ever hear of Brown's Gas?

Do you really think that cracking H2O would require less energy than it produces? How many perpetual motion machines have you purchased?
 
Mirlen said:
mmmmm, snake oil! You'll no doubt see more and more of these scams pop up as fuel prices climb. People like to take advantage of the hysteria. Ever hear of Brown's Gas?

Do you really think that cracking H2O would require less energy than it produces? How many perpetual motion machines have you purchased?

No, I never said that I believed that it would work! That's why I started this thread to see if any one had done it. Yeah, I think it sounds too good to be true, too, but I wanted to see if anyone had actually done it before I rule it out.
 
steve germany said:
Funny thing this thought... try education and science. Ever hear this quote? - "There is one born every minute" - PJB

Right... ever wonder how anything was ever discovered in the first place? Trial and error, my friend, trail and error. Without that there would be no innovation and no new ideas.
 
INFO OVERLOAD

I think someone needs to get this thread back on track.

I was doing some research into this HHO thing as well. It seems like an interesting science experiment. I'm still not decided if it would work. I will comment on a device that is usually connected with HHO. Most sites recommend using an EFIE (electronic fuel injection enhancer) with the HHO unit.

Here are some things to consider. I assume that most backyard mechanics know this already.

The oxygen sensor is installed in the exhaust (sometimes there's two) and through a chemical reaction it produces a small voltage. The voltage varies based on how much oxygen is in the exhaust. The computer (ECU) reads the voltage and when it goes above a set limit it will richen up the air to fuel ratio. when it drops below a certain voltage it will lean out the air to fuel ratio.

From my experience working with snowmachines and dirtbikes I can tell you that if you lean out the mixture too much you can literally burn a hole right through a piston but you'll have good mileage and power before this happens. The other thing that will happen is that you will get pinging/knocking/preignition/auto ignition. This means that the gas is igniting before the spark and is caused by the high temperatures. Carbon buildup can add to this condition since the carbon will hold heat and I believe it started the process of burning a hole in my piston. The engine will also pollute more especially NO gas.

The question you may be asking then is why should an engine run cooler with more fuel? Good question. I learned that answer when I was in school for engineering. It has to do with the latent heat of vaporization. The fuel enters the engine as a mist which is suspended liquid particles, not a true gas. When it's compressed the fuel vaporizes or turns into a gas. The process of changing liquid to gas takes heat so if you need to get rid of more heat you need to vaporize more fuel. This is where I could start into water injection (nothing to do with HHO) and how water can be used to cool an engine but I'm not going to do that.

So this means that the purpose for part of the fuel that goes into your engine is simply to cool down combustion/reduce pollution. I would like to note that it is still all burned. This means that we do have some room to play with the amount of fuel going into the engine as long as we can keep the heat down/ prevent pre-ignition.

So now onto how the EFIE works. It is wired up to the oxygen sensor and it takes the charge from the oxygen sensor and alters it. Usually it will reduce the voltage output so that the computer will allow the car to run slightly lean. I think you can see where the danger comes in

I suspect that most car companies dial in the oxygen sensor on the conservative side so you may actually be able to get better mileage by only using an EFIE.

This brings up a couple of other questions in my mind as far as HHO is concerned.

1. Does the hydrogen help prevent pre-ignition? I know that it has a higher flash point than gasoline. The flash point is the temperature at which a gas will ignite without a spark. So maybe.

2. Does hydrogen burn colder or expand more when it burns? By this I mean how much heat is given off when hydrogen burns and how much it. If it does than it can be used to substitute gasoline

Then there's the big question. Will all of the possible benefits of burning hydrogen combine to improve overall efficiency? I know that the energy needed through electrolysis to make hydrogen is higher than the energy it will produce when burned as a fuel.

I'm sorry about the long post. It's helped me get my thoughts about this topic into some order. Feel free to comment or to go on insulting each other.
 
HHO

I have 3 cells in my 00 4 runner. Did achieve about 45% more mpgs put about 2 weeks later mileage went back. Installed the mif enhancer and went back to the 45%. Did notice more power on the engine and the smell of carbin monoxiode out the tail pipe was gone.
 
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Re: HHO

sdgas4less.com said:
I have 3 cells in my 00 4 runner. Did achieve about 45% more mpgs put about 2 weeks later mileage went back. Installed the mif enhancer and went back to the 45%. Did notice more power on the engine and the smell of carbin dioxode out the tail pipe was gone.

I didn't know carbon dioxide smelled. You've got a nice website. www.sdgas4less.com:spam:

Originally posted by rustyrazorThe oxygen sensor is installed in the exhaust (sometimes there's two) and through a chemical reaction it produces a small voltage. The voltage varies based on how much oxygen is in the exhaust. The computer (ECU) reads the voltage and when it goes above a set limit it will richen up the air to fuel ratio. when it drops below a certain voltage it will lean out the air to fuel ratio.

From my experience working with snowmachines and dirtbikes I can tell you that if you lean out the mixture too much you can literally burn a hole right through a piston but you'll have good mileage and power before this happens. The other thing that will happen is that you will get pinging/knocking/preignition/auto ignition. This means that the gas is igniting before the spark and is caused by the high temperatures. Carbon buildup can add to this condition since the carbon will hold heat and I believe it started the process of burning a hole in my piston. The engine will also pollute more especially NO gas.

The question you may be asking then is why should an engine run cooler with more fuel? Good question. I learned that answer when I was in school for engineering. It has to do with the latent heat of vaporization. The fuel enters the engine as a mist which is suspended liquid particles, not a true gas. When it's compressed the fuel vaporizes or turns into a gas. The process of changing liquid to gas takes heat so if you need to get rid of more heat you need to vaporize more fuel. This is where I could start into water injection (nothing to do with HHO) and how water can be used to cool an engine but I'm not going to do that.

So this means that the purpose for part of the fuel that goes into your engine is simply to cool down combustion/reduce pollution. I would like to note that it is still all burned. This means that we do have some room to play with the amount of fuel going into the engine as long as we can keep the heat down/ prevent pre-ignition.

So now onto how the EFIE works. It is wired up to the oxygen sensor and it takes the charge from the oxygen sensor and alters it. Usually it will reduce the voltage output so that the computer will allow the car to run slightly lean. I think you can see where the danger comes in

I suspect that most car companies dial in the oxygen sensor on the conservative side so you may actually be able to get better mileage by only using an EFIE.

This brings up a couple of other questions in my mind as far as HHO is concerned.

1. Does the hydrogen help prevent pre-ignition? I know that it has a higher flash point than gasoline. The flash point is the temperature at which a gas will ignite without a spark. So maybe.

2. Does hydrogen burn colder or expand more when it burns? By this I mean how much heat is given off when hydrogen burns and how much it. If it does than it can be used to substitute gasoline

Then there's the big question. Will all of the possible benefits of burning hydrogen combine to improve overall efficiency? I know that the energy needed through electrolysis to make hydrogen is higher than the energy it will produce when burned as a fuel.

I'm sorry about the long post. It's helped me get my thoughts about this topic into some order. Feel free to comment or to go on insulting each other.




:iagree: 100% I also get a kick of all the 'greenies' jumping on board. IMHO the NOx emmisions, one of the most deadly tailpipe gasses, has to increase many fold from running so lean.

The oil bubble is bursting. The Congressional Offshore Drilling Ban expires Sept 30th. Fuel will never be $1.56/gallon again but we're at the top for the most part. We'll get a hurricane or Isreal bombing Iran spike but that's it. Chasing alternatives to fossil fuel is awesome. Just because hydrogen works great in an engine built for hydrogen doesn't mean it's smart or right to use it on gasoline engines.

Instead of hydrogen why don't we just dribble tiny bits of NO2. 1/10 or 1/50 of what the racers use, wouldn't that work? Sounds ridiculous right? IMHO paying for a device that causes extra NOx pollution is too.

If you really want HHO get an old school battery, jack the system voltage to the limit (14.8-15v), trap the gas off of the top and use that. Top the battery with distilled water weekly.

I admire and support the spirit, the technology isn't ready for prime-time.


:cheers:
 
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