Well it's finally time for head gaskets

[mountainbiker42]

After 230,000 miles one of my head gaskets finally let go on my '99 3.4L. I guess I'm not surprised, that's a long time! I'll be sending in an oil and coolant sample to confirm. I'm certain I have exhaust gas in my coolant. System quickly becomes over pressurized and the overflow tank is bubbling while coolant is well below boiling point (180-190). The temp gauge has risen, but never went into the red. I was pissed when I learned the temp gauge is a dummy switch. The needle won't wont from 180F to about 230F. Anyways, I'm a heavy equipment tech so I'm familiar with engine rebuilds and what-not. I'm trying to decide how far into this engine I wanna get. It's due for a timing belt, water pump, ect. I wanna pull the engine, reseal everything, do the front cover work, and do the heads at a minimum. With 230K I'd like to pull some lower end bearings out and see what they look like. When it torn down this far it seems silly not to touch the block or pistons. I find myself wanting to get carry away and rebuild the entire engine.

Anyone else ran into a situation like this? What did you end up doing?

 

[Mellemel]

I'm at the same mileage on my '97 V6, hope I'm not driving on borrowed time then ! All seems well and good right now..
Sorry I can't be of any more help, it's all above my head.
All I would say is if the rest of the vehicle is in good shape and rust isn't eating away at the frame then go ahead and take the motor apart. Good luck.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

After 230,000 miles one of my head gaskets finally let go on my '99 3.4L. I guess I'm not surprised, that's a long time! I'll be sending in an oil and coolant sample to confirm. I'm certain I have exhaust gas in my coolant. System quickly becomes over pressurized and the overflow tank is bubbling while coolant is well below boiling point (180-190). The temp gauge has risen, but never went into the red. I was pissed when I learned the temp gauge is a dummy switch. The needle won't wont from 180F to about 230F. Anyways, I'm a heavy equipment tech so I'm familiar with engine rebuilds and what-not. I'm trying to decide how far into this engine I wanna get. It's due for a timing belt, water pump, ect. I wanna pull the engine, reseal everything, do the front cover work, and do the heads at a minimum. With 230K I'd like to pull some lower end bearings out and see what they look like. When it torn down this far it seems silly not to touch the block or pistons. I find myself wanting to get carry away and rebuild the entire engine.

Anyone else ran into a situation like this? What did you end up doing?

The tell-tell sign of a head gasket is tons of white smoke coming out of the exhaust like a jet engine. Otherwise, either coolant mixing with oil or visa-versa. Just because your temp needle went up doesn't mean you have a head gasket. A leaky water pump can cause overheating due to air being let inside the system. If you don't have any of these symptoms, check your coolant level first then try to find coolant leak somewhere including the rear coolant lines underneath that feed the rear heat if it's low. A leaky water pump usually will have pink/green dried crusty stuff on the oil pan.

If you do end up with a bad head gasket, consider replacing the entire engine instead of going into the main bearings etc.

 

[111db]

You sound like you know what you're doing. Like you, I'd be interested to see what the mains look like at 230k. But honestly, with the 3.4 well documented at 300k+, I'd be surprised if you'd find wear that is out of spec. Never hurts to look, but I'd be inclined to do the TB/heads and call it good. FWIW I'm at 235k now, and thankful I haven't had any head gasket issues.

A leaky water pump can cause overheating due to air being let inside the system.

The water pump wouldn't pump pressurized air into the system - he noted bubbles - that's indicative of a pressurized failure, ie: head gasket.

If you do end up with a bad head gasket, consider replacing the entire engine instead of going into the main bearings etc.

What?? I'm only calling this out because I know there are inexperienced people that read these forums, and to have someone think that a head gasket failure automatically means complete engine replacement is just plain bad information. It *could* yes, but there are way too many variables to make that a "given".

 

[absalom]

You sound like you know what you're doing. Like you, I'd be interested to see what the mains look like at 230k. But honestly, with the 3.4 well documented at 300k+, I'd be surprised if you'd find wear that is out of spec. Never hurts to look, but I'd be inclined to do the TB/heads and call it good. FWIW I'm at 235k now, and thankful I haven't had any head gasket issues.


The water pump wouldn't pump pressurized air into the system - he noted bubbles - that's indicative of a pressurized failure, ie: head gasket.


What?? I'm only calling this out because I know there are inexperienced people that read these forums, and to have someone think that a head gasket failure automatically means complete engine replacement is just plain bad information. It *could* yes, but there are way too many variables to make that a "given".

I was actually going to recommend the same. My bud blew his motor (rod through block), and it was much cheaper ($450), simpler (plug n' play), and faster (1.5 days) to change the entire motor, than any HG job I've ever seen. 3.4's are common through car-part.com, and it's a piece of cake to swap motors.

 

[111db]

I was actually going to recommend the same. My bud blew his motor (rod through block), and it was much cheaper ($450), simpler (plug n' play), and faster (1.5 days) to change the entire motor, than any HG job I've ever seen. 3.4's are common through car-part.com, and it's a piece of cake to swap motors.

First off, every scenario is different. My point was that just because a head gasket fails doesn't necessarily mean the engine is trash. Non-technical folks often read these threads for guidance on their issues, and to infer that is a fact may not help those people.

You're talking about a rod through the block - I would certainly believe a swap would be cheaper than the alternatives.

Keep in mind the OP is a mechanic. HG parts on their own aren't expensive. A swap may be faster but he's talking about pulling the engine for a few reasons, so clearly he's not concerned with taking a few days to do this job.

Furthermore - as I mentioned every situation is different - if it were *my* engine, i would certainly want to rebuild vs. replace, as I've owned this engine since it had 49k on it. I KNOW it's history: maintenance/oil/parts/condition/driving style etc. When you put in a replacement car-part engine, you roll the dice.

 

[LeonAzul]

I was on the same boat last week. 222k miles on my '97 and started blowing white smoke like a crazy. The smell of coolant was very evident and knew it was time to look for a low mile engine. Found an '01 engine with 133k miles, timing belt and water pump recently replaced, for $500. My mechanic installed it this weekend, picked it up today and it is running great. Best route to take IMHO.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

You sound like you know what you're doing. Like you, I'd be interested to see what the mains look like at 230k. But honestly, with the 3.4 well documented at 300k+, I'd be surprised if you'd find wear that is out of spec. Never hurts to look, but I'd be inclined to do the TB/heads and call it good. FWIW I'm at 235k now, and thankful I haven't had any head gasket issues.


The water pump wouldn't pump pressurized air into the system - he noted bubbles - that's indicative of a pressurized failure, ie: head gasket.


What?? I'm only calling this out because I know there are inexperienced people that read these forums, and to have someone think that a head gasket failure automatically means complete engine replacement is just plain bad information. It *could* yes, but there are way too many variables to make that a "given".

I'm not inexperienced. Apologies for not reading the first post about the coolant bubbling into the overflow. In that case, it sounds like a head gasket failure. I had a 93' Legend with the same issue and it would never blow white smoke out the tail pipe but kept pushing coolant into the overflow excessively and overheat. Those cars are known for head gasket issues. Interesting enough I found that adding a quart of oil to a tank of gas every time I filled up actually reduced the incidence of overheating. I've heard of it working on Subaru's.

I only suggested to consider replacing the engine. It may not be in the OPs best interest to replace the engine, however in some circumstances it is something to consider especially because he was talking about going into the main bearings. If I was going that far, I'd be considering a low mileage replacement instead of a complete rebuild.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

I was on the same boat last week. 222k miles on my '97 and started blowing white smoke like a crazy. The smell of coolant was very evident and knew it was time to look for a low mile engine. Found an '01 engine with 133k miles, timing belt and water pump recently replaced, for $500. My mechanic installed it this weekend, picked it up today and it is running great. Best route to take IMHO.

I would have taken that route as well in your case. Especially for $500

 

[absalom]

I was on the same boat last week. 222k miles on my '97 and started blowing white smoke like a crazy. The smell of coolant was very evident and knew it was time to look for a low mile engine. Found an '01 engine with 133k miles, timing belt and water pump recently replaced, for $500. My mechanic installed it this weekend, picked it up today and it is running great. Best route to take IMHO.

Boom there ya go! I trust rebuilt motors, like I trust Ford's build quality. Sure, it can be done right, but it's so much more work and always leaves me with less confidence.

 

[nissanh]

Don't pull the crank bearings out.
Get the rear seal, timing belt kit and front seals, crank case seal, oil cooler seal, exhaust manifold gasket with antiseize on bolts/nuts, with a new radiator and hoses will get you another 200K miles. Get all OEM oil seals.
Also install a new oil seal to the front of the transmission.