what are real "winter" tires?

[Will_4R]

I thought I knew, being Canadian and all, but all the marketing hype has raised a bunch of questions.

I was under the impression the mountain snowflake symbol indicated a true winter tire as opposed to all season or m+s tires. All season are general tires and there is no official designation. M+S is based on tread:void ratio but not required to pass any testing. Mountian snowflake has to actually pass real world testing. A real winter tire (studded tires aside) have softer rubber that wears worse, is louder, handles worse, particularly at speed, so is best used only in winter.

My big question is: what is deal with AT tires having the mountain snowflake? This almost sounds too good to be true - an all terain, all season tire that is also a true winter tire. Specifically, the GY Silent Armour (which I have been considering lately) get excellent reviews for onroad handling and quietness and wears well (doesn't sound like a winter tire). This tire is not marketed as a dedicated witner tire, but rather an "all season" type. I also notice it is not on the RAC list of dedicated winter tires.

The BFG TA Ko is a bit of an oddball with the mountain snowflake because in general it doesn't seem to get great snow handling reviews, while the Revo (no mountain snowflake) gets decent snow handling reviews. I assume this is because people writing the reviews are not making objective caomparions and reviewing based more on "feel". If one tire passes the severe weather testing and one does not, then the the one that passes should be better.

 

[MikesToy]

IMHO, studded tires are real winter tires regardless what brand they are.

 

[Scoobs]

It has to do with traction

it has to do with traction

What's the difference in snow traction between an M+S (Mud and Snow) branded tire, an All-Season tire and a purpose-built winter tire? While many drivers probably aren't absolutely sure, it can be the difference between getting to work, getting home or getting stuck.

The original definition of M+S tires is based on the geometry of the tread design. The M+S designation was first used to differentiate the knobby bias ply tires intended for use on muddy, and/or snow-covered roads from the straight rib tires used on early cars or trucks. Tires with tread designs that meet the definition may be branded with the letters "M" and "S" in several different ways (e.g., M&S, M+S, M/S, MS, etc.) at the discretion of the tire manufacturer.

When early radial ply tires were also found to deliver more snow traction than the straight rib, bias ply tires, the tire companies introduced "All-Season tires." Supported by advertising, All-Season tires have presented an unspoken promise that they, throughout their life, can provide traction for all seasons...through spring's rain, summer's heat, fall's cooling and winter's snow. While this combined offering has made All-Season tires popular, many drivers have learned that a geometric definition doesn't guarantee winter snow and ice traction.

In 1999, The U.S. Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) and the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) agreed on a performance based standard to identify passenger and light truck tires that attain a traction index equal to, or greater than 110 (compared to a reference tire which is rated 100) during the specified American Society for Testing and Materials traction tests on packed snow. The new standard helps ensure that drivers can easily identify tires that provide a higher level of snow traction.

A snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol branded on the tire's sidewall identifies tires that met the required performance in snow testing. The snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol was expected to be fully implemented on new tires by now. There are still some winter tires in the marketplace that meet the requirements to display the snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol but the molds used to make the tires were produced before the symbol was developed.

 

[Will_4R]

ok, I wasn't too far off in my in my understanding. So basically the mountain snowflake isn't the only thing that makes a tire a true winter tire. It really only means the tire is up to a certain standard for traction in snow, not necessarily ice or other cold weather traction. So I assume the AT tires with the mountain snowflake have a good tread paterns for snow, but not necessarily the soft rubber compound that dedicated winter tires have for cold weather performance on ice (and pavement) - hence the reason they are suitable for high speeds and summer use where a true winter tire might not be.

 

[chaz]

u can always go to the tirerack site & look at each tires ratings that u might be interested in.

 

[Will_4R]

u can always go to the tirerack site & look at each tires ratings that u might be interested in.

Ya, I looked at them. I was comparing the Silent Armour to the Revo. Last I looked the Revo did a little better on snow, but it doesn't get the mountian snowflake the SA does. Of course those reviews are not entirely objective so I take it more as a guide. There certainly are not many complaints about either tire in any catagory. I ruled out the BFG TA KO because of snow, and mainly rain performance (oddly it has the mountain snowflake though). The Firestone Destination looks good too, but other than price, doesn't really have any advantage over the Revo or SA.

 

[chaz]

if your in canada, arent u forced to use a tire with the snow flake only?

 

[Will_4R]

if your in canada, arent u forced to use a tire with the snow flake only?

Only in Quebec. We don't get snow in Vancouver where I live, but there is a lot in mountains and I do encounter it regularly. I don't do enough snow driving in winter to justify a dedicated winter tire, and I take lots of road trips (all year, winter included) where a dedicated winter tire would be less ideal.

 

[chaz]

tell ya the truth, ive used all 4 u mentioned on various vec.s over the years, & theyre all good, but after losing half the tread over time, no tire will be as good as it was in the beginning, thats why i always get new ones after i get around 30k on them. overall tho, bridgestones have seemed to serve me better & have bought more of that brand than any other, with the exception of the bfg, they always seemed better off road than the others. hey, good luck in ur choice.