What is the difference between ATRAC and Crawl control?

[wfo9]

I have a 2013 TE and this past weekend went out with a group. It did really well but I tried using crawl control to go down a steep slope which was a bit wet due to recent rain a little earlier. It started off going down fine even if it was a bit scary trusting it however when it got a bit steeper and started to lose traction sliding forward it would like sped up then slow down again and each time it slows too much and would start to slide then it would repeat after about the third time I was really moving and I thought screw this and took control and made it down.
Is crawl control not meant for downhill or did I do something wrong?

It's far from perfect.... Electronics simply can't make up for what proper gearing and and an experienced driver can do. Using crawl control in a hard core situation would not be smart at all. Learn to live without it.. you will be 1000x better off. It might do some good in a few one off narrow situations.. but in general it is a gimmick.

 

[mo_mo]

I have a 2013 TE and this past weekend went out with a group. It did really well but I tried using crawl control to go down a steep slope which was a bit wet due to recent rain a little earlier. It started off going down fine even if it was a bit scary trusting it however when it got a bit steeper and started to lose traction sliding forward it would like sped up then slow down again and each time it slows too much and would start to slide then it would repeat after about the third time I was really moving and I thought screw this and took control and made it down.
Is crawl control not meant for downhill or did I do something wrong?

I would try to avoid the super slow speed settings of Crawl Control. CC is like DAC plus it allows the vehicle to apply throttle so it can climb grades too. Generally low range plus the transmission set to S1 is ample for most downhills until things get steeeeep. If you have something slick and off camber then it can get dicey with sliding. Make sure you don't have the elocker engaged as it will tend to slide that axle around.

 

[Knight-Errant]

Personally I don't understand the difference between ATRAC and Multi Terrain Select.

My understanding is that ATRAC is a "dumb" system the reacts the same no matter what terrain is encountered, while Multi-Terrain is pretty much like ATRAC but you choose the level of intrusiveness that is right depending on the terrain you're encountering (so it is "dumb" in the sense that it reacts to the level of intrusiveness specified, but the drive will hopefully be "smart" and choose the right setting). Is this about right, or am I off?

Not trying to hijack the thread but I feel like it is in a very similar vein. Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Knight-Errant]

... but in general it is a gimmick.

Agree....but I think the buttons and knobs are really cool :behindsofa:

 

[Jeremy556]

You'll want to use DAC for going downhill. Not entirely sure about crawl control as I don't have it. DAC is incredible for going downhill. You just have to trust it. It'll start off feeling crazy fast, but it quickly gets it under control.

TE's don't have DAC - Crawl Control does the same thing going down hill as DAC does.

Personally I don't understand the difference between ATRAC and Multi Terrain Select.

My understanding is that ATRAC is a "dumb" system the reacts the same no matter what terrain is encountered, while Multi-Terrain is pretty much like ATRAC but you choose the level of intrusiveness. Is this about right, or am I off?

Not trying to hijack the thread but I feel like it is in a very similar vein. Thanks in advance for any info.

Basically. MTS allows you to fine-tune how aggressive the traction control is.

My main use for MTS is the 1st setting when in 4hi at higher speeds on dirt roads. The MTS dials the ABS way back so that if you brake suddenly, it allows tires to stop spinning and dig in, instead of activating ABS and not stopping. I had rigged a switch to disable the ABS in my last vehicle to achieve the same result.

 

[Jeremy556]

It's far from perfect.... Electronics simply can't make up for what proper gearing and and an experienced driver can do. Using crawl control in a hard core situation would not be smart at all. Learn to live without it.. you will be 1000x better off. It might do some good in a few one off narrow situations.. but in general it is a gimmick.

Yep. A very, very few situations it is helpful; 99.99% of the time, not so much. Practicing 2 foot driving - using the brake and throttle together to finely control vehicle movement is far more useful.

 

[Knight-Errant]

The MTS dials the ABS way back so that if you brake suddenly, it allows tires to stop spinning and dig in, instead of activating ABS and not stopping. I had rigged a switch to disable the ABS in my last vehicle to achieve the same result.

I didn't know about how it affected ABS, this is really helpful to know, thank you.

 

[Runamok]

It works really really good uphill for me. It will go up stuff that I could not make it up before without having to get some crazy speed up for. It just keeps chugging away at a nice even pace till t gets the job done but after that downhill experience I doubt I'll ever be brave enough to try it again!

 

[CoolMax]

Basically. MTS allows you to fine-tune how aggressive the traction control is.

My main use for MTS is the 1st setting when in 4hi at higher speeds on dirt roads. The MTS dials the ABS way back so that if you brake suddenly, it allows tires to stop spinning and dig in, instead of activating ABS and not stopping. I had rigged a switch to disable the ABS in my last vehicle to achieve the same result.

I used MTS in sand for the beach I was at last month. I have no idea if it helped, I only used since I have it.:madgrin:

 

[lukeskywalker]

Is Crawl Control basically ATRAC without having to push the petal?

I guess the question is...Is Crawl Control 'smarter' than Atrac?

 

[srpuywa]

I had it on my 14 FJ - rarely used it, call me old school but I like being in control of the throttle

 

[wfo9]

Is Crawl Control basically ATRAC without having to push the petal?

I guess the question is...Is Crawl Control 'smarter' than Atrac?

sort of, yes it is like ATRAC plus low speed cruise control. But it will also apply the brakes to maintain desired speed. ATRAC only applies the brakes to limit slip on a given wheel, not to limit speed.

Problem with crawl is... difficult low speed off-road terrain typically requires constant throttle and possible brake adjustment at all times.

If you know traditional 4x4 stuff... ATRAC tries to emulate a limited slip differential.

CRAWL tries to emulate a better reduction gear, but removes the throttle and brake control part, which is the most important part.

In the end they are both poor substitutions for the real thing (locker and a better reduction gear), but ATRAC is pretty useful. CRAWL is not useful 99% of the time.

 

[lukeskywalker]

sort of, yes it is like ATRAC plus low speed cruise control. But it will also apply the brakes to maintain desired speed. ATRAC only applies the brakes to limit slip on a given wheel, not to limit speed.

Problem with crawl is... difficult low speed off-road terrain typically requires constant throttle and possible brake adjustment at all times.

If you know traditional 4x4 stuff... ATRAC tries to emulate a limited slip differential.

CRAWL tries to emulate a better reduction gear, but removes the throttle and brake control part, which is the most important part.

In the end they are both poor substitutions for the real thing (locker and a better reduction gear), but ATRAC is pretty useful. CRAWL is not useful 99% of the time.

Excellent description. Another way to ask...can CRAWL get you out of a situation where ATRAC can't. Is it using a system of stopping/controlling wheel spin that ATRAC isn't.

If it's about the proper throttling, I can see where human error can fail to get you out, with ATRAC engaged. I guess I don't understand the breaking component as ATRAC uses the ABS system. I thought that Crawl would do the same.

 

[wfo9]

Excellent description. Another way to ask...can CRAWL get you out of a situation where ATRAC can't. Is it using a system of stopping/controlling wheel spin that ATRAC isn't.

If it's about the proper throttling, I can see where human error can fail to get you out, with ATRAC engaged. I guess I don't understand the breaking component as ATRAC uses the ABS system. I thought that Crawl would do the same.

They use the same basic technique to keep all wheels spinning at the same speed with an open differential. But CRAWL can be a bit more aggressive since it is in charge of the throttle. CRAWL also controls wheel speed when descending where ATRAC only targets that all wheels spin at the same speed. CRAWL attempts to keep them all at the targeted speed of the setting (but it still gets a bit lazy at times)

The problem is.. in real offroad situations where there are difficult obstacles (a steady throttle and speed rarely ever works) Even when crawling very difficult uneven terrain (either up or down) there are times when you need to stop and times when you need to blip.. This is why CRAWL is almost never useful in the real world. It does not understand the terrain (like you are about to drop off a 3ft ledge...) The tried and true equivalents (lockers and crawl boxes in a capable drivers hands) are just much better solutions.

It does have a place in a static low traction scenario like sand or maybe snow. But those scenarios are typically rare and there is almost always a better way with some driving technique or mechanical solution (like lockers or a little recovery work).

Bottom line. ATRAC is very useful. CRAWL neat to have and play with a few times. Not really something a person who offroads much will ever use on a regular basis. But they may find themselves in a unique scenario where it comes in handy. Sort of a one off tool in your bag that you almost never use, but still worth having in the bag if you don't have anything better (even though there are much better alternatives)

It also works for people who have limited off-road driving experience as long as the terrain is pretty basic. A common mistake for newbies is giving too much throttle and brake input when they get excited or confused (which can result in a disaster in steep technical terrain). The CRAWL eliminates that, but in the end you really have to learn proper technique for when things get truly sketchy.

But back to your original question.. Can it get you out when ATRAC can't.. I would have to say.. doubtful but there may be a unique scenario. On a Trail edition. ATRAC plus the rear locker is going to be your best option for most every stuck situation. Driving technique (even when already stuck) is what always wins the day. Offroading is just such a dynamic environment. Every situation is unique and you simply just have to get a feel for things. Throttle out when you need to....

 

[Jetboy]

My thoughts are that Crawl is a nice feature to have in a few limited circumstances.

First is sand. I think - although I don't have any basis other than it's amazing at it - that Crawl was really designed for sand. It's like magic in sand. I don't go out on sand very often, so that's not a value to me - but the folks in the middle east seem to love it.

The second place it's nice is for people new to offroading. I can put my wife in the driver's seat and she knows how it all works and feels comfortable with the speed. It also does a good job of managing the ride comfort over boulders by keeping speeds from surging. And I feel a bit more comfortable knowing we won't have a runaway 4runner... been there with another newer diver who pushed the clutch in on a steep downhill trying to hit the brakes. Being in double low range and pushing the clutch was like nailing the gas peddle. Didn't stop until a big boulder at the bottom. Not fun. For a new driver to get their feet wet - it's pretty nice.

Finally it's useful for trail fatigue. If you're on the trail for a long day at a slow pace, having cruise control for the 7 out of 10 kinda trail segments is actually pretty nice. Just for comfort reasons. In an automatic you can't just let it idle along in 1st gear. You have to constantly manage the throttle/brake for every little mogul. That's where the highest speed is actually pretty darn nice to have.

On the flip side - I've only found one instance ever that it successfully climbed an obstacle I could not. Wet, steep, rock corner with a big tree on the inside that I could not get around without sliding into the tree. After a few attempts I put crawl in its lowest speed and sure enough it crept right around the turn without slipping. Maybe it was just dumb luck of having a slightly different line?? Not sure. Other obstacles I've tried it could not figure out that I could pretty easily drive over. Tip-over challenge in Moab is a great example. It's just an 18" ledge in the middle of a steep off camber climb that's a nightmare for short wheel bases. For a 4runner just driving - no problem. Just give it enough momentum to bump up and over, but not enough to roll. Crawl would just slowly climb up to the ledge, then sit and spin against it without ever making progress. It can't really identify where you need momentum or how much. My general experience is that crawl will go 80% of the places a good driver would. But it isn't a replacement for good driving and won't make you an offroad hero by pushing a button.

In short - between the two - I'd rather have auto headlights, but crawl has its place as another moderately useful tool in the box of options. I do think it should come standard on all 4 runners. Mainly because it's just software. So the incremental cost of adding it is almost zero.

 

[rockwind1]

i've used my crawl control quite afew times and really like it.