What was thought to be a clogged diff breather is now a MUCH bigger issue

[68whiskey]

A bit long, but worth the read.

Quick recap since the last post on this to save you from having to dig. When I purchased the truck, the previous owner had done the drivers side rear axle seal and since the passengers side wasn't leaking, he included most of the parts he had already purchased for it in the sale of the truck. Shortly after I got it, it started to leak. I was prepared to take it to the dealership, but instead went to an independent mechanic who was previously a master Acura tech who opened his own garage. A few people I knew vouched for this guy, so I went with it. I brought the parts (Seal, ABS rotor, snap ring, bearing, etc) and he did the job. Fast forward a few months or so, it started leaking again. Took it back, and he said the seal had cracked in half, and replaced it with a new seal. He had no idea how and said that he'd never seen anything like it. Since he didn't do anything in terms of replacing the brakes, and they were due anyways, I took it to the Toyota dealership to have them done shortly after this. The dealership did all new drums, shoes, and hardware. During this repair, a tech came out and said the passengers side brakes were saturated when he took them off, and said he feels the seal might be leaking. Convinced that it was residual diff fluid that had seeped out of the shoes that were left on there after the precious leak, I gave him the green light to replace just the brakes after he cleaned the backing plate and everything up. New brakes, done deal. Didn't have issues for a few months.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. I took the truck in for an alignment, oil change, and rotation. Service advisor comes out and tells me that the seal had failed for sure (third time), and that the diff breathing tube was the culprit blowing out the seal. Therefore, he quoted me around 500 bucks to take care of the breathing tube, new shoes, and resurfacing the drum and changing the seal out. The following week I took it in to have these repairs done. Heres where it gets interesting.

I get a call later that day saying that there were much bigger issues than the diff breathing tube. Apparently, the independent mechanic had heated up the axle (assuming to get parts in/out) and had also either cut part of the axle or had taken some type of tool and hammer to it at some point. Although he stressed that it looked as though it had been cut into somehow. Regardless of the specifics, the axle was shot. He offered to have the mechanic sand the axle smooth and wrap the job up if I wanted to, but we both knew it would leak again eventually, and Ive had enough of this damn seal. This truck has had ZERO issues other than this seal in the year I've owned it. It drives great, shifts smooth, doesn't burn oil or even rattle. Then he hit me with the details.

With it being late on a friday, and him not expecting me to want to fix it the right way, he had to quickly add things up at my request so I knew what I would be looking at. For the axle, the backing plate for the drums (which was bent all to hell from the independent mechanic as well), ABS rotor, seals, bearing, blah blah blah, its roughly 1600 bucks. He didn't give me an exact quote, just stated that it would be no more than 1600, likely a little less. From the figures he had for parts plus labor costs, it was a rough estimate but at least I had a max worst case scenario. Some may say I'm crazy, that I can get cheaper parts elsewhere, look for a used axle etc etc..but I am completely over this axle seal issue and opted to have them fix it right once and for all. I had them take pictures (which ill get when I pick it up) and save the old axle. It was about 600 bucks for the original mechanic that did the seal (and PA state inspection and emissions stickers). Clearly I need to get some money back, I just don't even know where to begin.

Thoughts, opinions, anything would be appreciated. Again, I know that putting that kind of money into a 15 year old vehicle with 276k on the clock sounds crazy. The way I see it, I have a truck that runs great with a spotless frame and rust-free body. I daily this thing. I could not justify in my brain getting rid of it because of this issue. Am I crazy, or is there any of you out there that love their truck as well and would've done the same thing?

 

[thecole1098]

Sorry to hear about your circumstance. Personally, I've already dumped a shit ton into my rig, however I see the potential in it and know how reliable these are for the age, so yes I would certainly fix it. I would not pay someone else to do it though, as I know how to do all this myself but that's perfectly fine if you don't know or don't have the time/space. The dealer is the next best place to do it besides yourself.

Also it would actually be fine to have small gashes in the axle as long as its either before the retainer rings, not below where they sit or after otherwise gear oil could seep past and render the inner axle seal useless. If it's true about the axle being heated to remove the old parts, that automatically warrants the need for a new axle shaft. The heat can temper the metal and cause it to have a chance of snapping at the newly created weak point. Not a good situation to be in if that were to happen. What makes them say the axle was heated though? Is it possible to get a picture of the axle?

Good luck.

 

[68whiskey]

Sorry to hear about your circumstance. Personally, I've already dumped a shit ton into my rig, however I see the potential in it and know how reliable these are for the age, so yes I would certainly fix it. I would not pay someone else to do it though, as I know how to do all this myself but that's perfectly fine if you don't know or don't have the time/space. The dealer is the next best place to do it besides yourself. Good luck.

Thanks man. For me its a time and space issue. I could've done the axle work myself, minus taking the axle to a shop at some point because I don't have a press. It would have taken forever though, since I can only pick at it. The lift, as simple as that is, took a week and a half with my truck in the garage on jack stands. Just picking at it here and there. So, at this point, I guess the dealer is the only place Ill go.

 

[Mark_BC]

Get a used axle and replace the seals and bearings yourself. See [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION]'s bideo.

I've sunk money into mine but never wasted it, I would probably get half of my money back beyond the initial purchase price if I sold it due to the upgrades.

 

[68whiskey]

Get a used axle and replace the seals and bearings yourself. See [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION]'s bideo.

I've sunk money into mine but never wasted it, I would probably get half of my money back beyond the initial purchase price if I sold it due to the upgrades.

Im in the same boat. I never intended on getting rid of this thing. Ive sunk a lot of money into it for routine maintenance, upgrades, etc. Obviously with a third gen or any vehicle for that matter, you're never really going to get back what you put into it. I wouldn't expect to. If for some reason I did get rid of it, theres a huge pile of paperwork/receipts to at least get a reasonable price for a solid truck. Other than that, I don't expect anything else. I went ahead with the repairs for a couple reasons. Its already there and torn down, and I know this way everything should be done right and if there were an again, they'd be taking care of it.

 

[krenaud33]

I say get a used axle for a few hundred, swap your brakes over and call it good.

Sent from my SM-S765C using Tapatalk

 

[octanejunkie]

E-Locker rear end swapgrade :first:

 

[Mark_BC]

Its already there and torn down, and I know this way everything should be done right and if there were an again, they'd be taking care of it.

Ya but most actual mechanics don't know how to do the seals on these things, the only way to do it right is do it yourself.

 

[mtbtim]

YES! YES! YES! What [MENTION=146628]Mark_BC[/MENTION] said.

I tell people this ALL the time. This Rear Axle Seal Job has got to be the #1 repair mechanics screw up. Not even Toyota Dealership mechanics know what the hell is going on with this repair.

Anyway, sorry this happened to you. The first mechanic obviously used a cutting disk and scored your axle shaft. This is a common result when parts are cut off rather than pulled off.

 

[AZ4Running]

Diff housing seals and axle seal are so easy to do and to mess up at the same time. I guess since I have done so many it seems easy and simple to me to pull the tube seal and press off an on bearings and retaining rings. I hope you got it fixed and that you got your many back the the first shop

 

[pluton]

I had both sides done at a local dealer and they had redo the repair 5 times in six months. Of course, probably some of the redos were fake, just to get rid of me.
From the anecdotal reports here, some dealers know how to do this job right, but many, maybe a majority, do not.
If you are fortunate enough to have a dealer service dept/indie shop that'll let you talk with the technicians, you've got a chance.
Read this whole thread, and print out some of the pictures of the "grease test" and show them to the tech.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/114743-possible-solution-leaking-axle-seals.html

 

[mtbtim]

I had both sides done at a local dealer and they had redo the repair 5 times in six months. Of course, probably some of the redos were fake, just to get rid of me.
From the anecdotal reports here, some dealers know how to do this job right, but many, maybe a majority, do not.
If you are fortunate enough to have a dealer service dept/indie shop that'll let you talk with the technicians, you've got a chance.
Read this whole thread, and print out some of the pictures of the "grease test" and show them to the tech.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/114743-possible-solution-leaking-axle-seals.html

[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I actually showcase the Dr Coffee method in our video that is showcased in the thread you provided a link to.

My local dealer in San Jose, California screwed up on my rig too. I verified it was leaking from what I learned in that thread by pulling the ABS sensor and turning the axle looking for gear oil to lap up onto the ABS gear.

I talked with the service writer and told him I wanted to see them do the grease test right in front of me. When I asked the mechanic to do the grease test so we could see where the seal was riding, he had a blank stare. He didn't know what I was talking about. A couple other mechanics were watching what was going on and explained to the dude what to do. After we verified the seal was barely riding on the polished surface of the retainer, right on the edge of the non-polished bevel, I explained to the service writer and to the mechanic that Toyota redesigned the seals sometime in the past and you can't just press the inner retainer back on in the same spot as before. After I told them this, one of the mechanics pointed to me and then said to the mechanic who did the job, "See, you just learned something from this guy. He's right."

I learned some lessons that day. The first lesson I learned was just because someone is a professional mechanic doesn't mean they have all the knowledge necessary to be successful with a repair and quite often a DIYer like myself knows more because I've done the research. I also learned that for the most part, I can do just as good of a job as a paid mechanic if I do the research, have the right tools, take my time and pay attention to detail. There are a lot of really good professional mechanics out there, but there's a decent amount of bad ones too. There's also shops that aren't exactly honest that prey on uninformed people.

So, what am I trying to say? If auto mechanics interests you at all, try doing you're own repairs, maintenance and modifications on your rig. Why pay the high labor rates shops charge when you can do it yourself. This is one of the things [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I are trying to do with our YouTube channel, inspire people to take up the challenge and turn a wrench.

Here's the video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AVhSDnw2ugo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FrenchToasty]

[MENTION=102606] The first lesson I learned was just because someone is a professional mechanic doesn't mean they have all the knowledge necessary to be successful with a repair and quite often a DIYer like myself knows more because I've done the research. I also learned that for the most part, I can do just as good of a job as a paid mechanic if I do the research, have the right tools, take my time and pay attention to detail. There are a lot of really good professional mechanics out there, but there's a decent amount of bad ones too. There's also shops that aren't exactly honest that prey on uninformed people.

So, what am I trying to say? If auto mechanics interests you at all, try doing you're own repairs, maintenance and modifications on your rig. Why pay the high labor rates shops charge when you can do it yourself. This is one of the things [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I are trying to do with our YouTube channel, inspire people to take up the challenge and turn a wrench.

It helps soo much to be informed and ontop of what's going on
The place that I thankfully only take my work truck; was working on a 4th gen that "break hax" didn't tighten the tranny drain plug. I had to show them where the fill plug was(they always fill from the overflow port) and then told them what temp the fluid needs to be for proper fill level.
Makes me really glad I research and do my own maintence(as much as humanly possible)

Thank you two for putting the knowledge out for enlightening others! Keep on keepin on!

 

[whyzee125]

That sucks this happened to you, sorry to hear it. That being said, I agree with your logic. It's a great truck regardless and well worth fixing. Have it done right and you'll not have to worry about it in the future. I just had mine done from a good shop here who always have 5-6 4runners outfront. I sure hope it's done right and doesn't start leaking again. I need to check my breather.