what would cause this major oil hemorrhage and...is my 04 V8 a goner?

[MikeInNH]

I clearly stated that what damages an engine is operating it at excessive RPM's before the temps come up regardless of oil viscosity.

And excessive RPM's are NEVER a good idea no matter if the vehicle is warmed up or not. I saw NOTHING in the OP's post saying about doing excessive accelerating. If he did could you please point that out. What he did say is that he starts his truck and then drives away...which is EXACTLY what you should be doing. Why cold weather was mentioned was because oil will reach normal operating temps when the outside temps are warm then when it's below freezing.

Is Engine Idling Damaging Your Engine?

Minimal damage is done when cold starting as there is already a film of oil on all of the internal parts and since you mentioned wive's tales, there isn't as much damage being done on cold starts as you'd like to think.

Ummm.....Sorry, but wrong. Any oil film that was there is gone in less then a second.

Here are just a couple links of the hundreds I was able to find.

Popular Science - Google Books

Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy

 

[jwyshrek]

Well, first, your first link is an ad that was published in an old issue of Popular Mechanics...truth or not, I wouldn't put much credit in an commercial.

Second, can't say I agree with your statement of "Any oil film that was there is gone in less then a second"...actually, I'm not exactly sure what you mean here without some more detail.

If you dip a clean metal part in motor oil...lay it on the table overnight...the next morning if you pat it with a white paper towel...you will see an oil film...not much, but it is there. I've heard that synthetic oil is even better at 'clinging' to metal parts. Even the link you provided states this...somewhere around chapter 4, I believe.

But, I do agree with you that most engine wear occurs at startup...film or no film...not because of the oil thickness or weight, but because there is no or insufficient oil pressure...many bearings in engines are hydrodynamic type...they need oil pressure to prevent metal to metal contact.

I think we need a hydraulic or lubrication engineer here...I'm thinking the words 'weight' and 'thickness' are not being used properly...aka viscosity.

 

[jwyshrek]

One other thing...I've had some limited experience building engines and racing cars (solo II)...and I know people who still do (dirt track). Most of the time, a single weight oil is used, not multi-weight like most of us use on the street.

A single weight oils can 'thin out' at higher temperatures...so maybe you guys aren't comparing apples to apples...more like red apples to green apples...

Also, I currently work in the tufting industry...my company builds machines (the size of a bus) that make carpet. It is large reciprocating machine requiring significant lubrication. We use 30W oil...and it does get 'thinner' after warming up...the current draw on the oil pumps don't lie!

anywho

 

[jwyshrek]

To the original OP...the only real way to know if any damage was done (if there are no strange metallic or knocking sounds) is to tear down the engine...or even a partial tear down (if possible)....such as removing the oil pan and inspect some of the rod bearings.

Because even if there are no strange sounds...there might be some long term irreparable damage that might show up later...on the other hand, you might get lucky, and the thing last 300K miles! (I once had a Jeep with a cracked head that I drove for 50k+ miles.)

good luck.

 

[JB.]

Fun fact: Newer BMW's have lights on their rev dials to indicate where to limit engine speed relative to engine temp. The lights are on somewhere near halfway point on the dial when the engine is cold.

Very interesting.

Good piece of evidence, too, which is no doubt why it was completely ignored.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

I am a mechanical engineering student so let me do a quick exercise for ya'll. This is pressure in relation to temperature. Take my truck for example, I have a oil psi and temp gauge. When I start it from a cold start my oil psi is around 80-90 psi at idle. When I drive it, romp on it, whatever, temp rises to 160-180 degrees fahrenheit. However oil pressure drops to around 20 psi at idle.
This should be a good read for most.
Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy
In particular this phase.
A “30” grade oil has a viscosity of 3 at 302°F ( 150°C ) and thickens to 10 at 212°F ( 100°C ). It further thickens to a viscosity of 100 at 104°F ( 40°C ) and is too thick to measure at the freezing point of 32°F ( 0°C )

 

[vitamin]

Do I remember this correctly ? - Bob the Oil Guy has taught me that cold temps are bad for synthetic oil in the jug before use. Well, how about cold sitting in the crankcase overnight ? Does the cold destroy the lube characteristics of the oil itself over time ?

 

[jwyshrek]

Hmm...never heard that one before.

But another thing to consider gentlemen...

Viscosity (weight, thickness, or whatever) is DEPENDENT on temperature.

Yes, a 5w-30 oil will 'act' like a 5 weight oil at, say, 0 degrees.

At say 200 degrees, it will 'act' like straight 30W oil...AT 200 degrees. Viscosity in oils is not static...it is dependent on temperature (among other things).

Edit: Ah, viscosity index...that's the term I was looking for...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity_index

 

[galactic_04]

Did they replace the front engine seals when they did the timing belt? Sounds like they may have had a leaking seal up there or improperly installed one. Hard to say without knowing where the oil was from? Was it from the timing cover?

 

[TN_4runner]

Had the TR4 since 08, bought it at 65k miles. It's the 2004 Limited V8 with 4wd.

Never had any serious problems besides the sulfur smell with the windows down. Now has 110k, I had the timing belt and water pump changed about 2 months ago. Car also had the exhaust manifold ticking going on about 2-3 months, it wasn't that bad and went away after about a few minutes of driving.

I drove the car cold from my house to a gas station 5 miles down the road. When I pull in to get gas, heard a really knocking sound, like the manifold sound amplified. What I didn't know, but learned after I'd gone into the store and come out is that a few quarts of oil had leaked out from the engine and onto the ground. And it did not appear to be from the pan or oil filter.

I had it towed back to my mechanic. What could potentially cause this? Is the valvetrain destroyed, and the engine as well?

Thanks

Let me chime in here....what happened to the person who posted this? They have not responded back...you guys are bickering back and forth "not in a bad way" and this person has yet to get back on here...sounds kinda fishy to me. If me I'd be concerned, logging back on and finding out what's wrong, asking and answering questions.

 

[CXS]

I had it towed back to my mechanic. What could potentially cause this? Is the valvetrain destroyed, and the engine as well?

I suggest we get back to decoyy's question and save the oil debate for a seperate thread...

 

[JB.]

What's to get back to?

He has few details. The truck is in his mechanic's hands. He's about to find out -- from the one person actually in a position to say something useful -- what happened and what was damaged.

If he chooses to post up again, then there might be something to get back to.

 

[delucat2]

my guess - broken motor mount that allowed the engine to rock - crushed the oil filter.

 

[vitamin]

if we are guessing, here's mine:
went to Jiffy Lube a couple weeks ago

 

[TN_4runner]

if we are guessing, here's mine:
went to Jiffy Lube a couple weeks ago

Survey says.............................................DING!!!!.....that's the number 1 answer out of 100 people surveyed :biggrin2:

 

[CXS]

I thought they just tightened oil pan plugs until they stripped, not left them loose. arty:

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

if we are guessing, here's mine:
went to Jiffy Lube a couple weeks ago

"A couple weeks"? No, more like a few hours or yesterday, depending on the location.

 

[Synister]

Someone fed his engine Jager thinking it was oil...the engine did what anyone would do and threw up everywhere. The end.

 

[Sungod]

I wonder if we were trolled by a decoyy?

 

[zstampe]

I wonder if we were trolled by a decoyy?

Usually that's Eskimo chaos trolling about v6's though!