Wheel drag, ideas to isolate?

DiskDoctr

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2004 4Runner V8 LTD. It's been sitting about 2 months as I waited to replace the front bumper (deer strike on the outside edge of the bumper cover, where there isn't any metal :( )

When I drive it, it feels like I'm dragging a trailer or something. Oh well, I figure, since I have new rear calipers, the one had been hung up a while back and I did a rebuild on it. So both rear wheels now have new calipers.

My 4Runner has disc brakes in rear AND rear drums for emergency brake.

The passenger rear wheel actually skidded a little going downhill in neutral, trying to test it at about 5 mph on light gravel. I didn't have the brakes applied.

The vehicle will actually stop when in neutral on a slight downhill grade.

Here's what I've done to try to isolate the problem.

1. About 100yds test area, downhill in neutral, vehicle slows and once skidded the rear passenger wheel on loose gravel (very slow coasting)

2. Pulled RR tire and wheel to inspect emergency brake. A little dust and stuff, but works well. Cleaned it all up and backed the adjuster all the way off for testing. It goes on smoothly and returns smoothly (one shoe) when applying the emergency brake pedal and the wheel and hub is pulled.

3. I disconnected the RR brake hydraulic line and let it hang and repeated the test. I haven't been able to repeat the wheel skid, but vehicle still pulls to the right and has a noticeable drag.

4. Switching to reverse takes a bit of pedal, again acts like I have a load attached.

5. I do have a brake controller with oem harness connector, but no trailer attached.

6. It shifts into 4Lo and back to 4Hi (AWD) smoothly and has the same symptoms.

7. I don't get any traction or ABS lights during these troubles


This isn't a new problem after the new calipers, but they didn't fix the problem. I didn't troubleshoot before installing them because I thought (!) that was the problem and would resolve the issue.

I noticed the last few times I drove it (before today) a slight burning rubber smell. I can't see anything rubbing or leaking, though I am parked on gravel and a leak would be hard to notice.

I replaced a front left wheel bearing a few years back, but no big deal. I replaced a front right CV boot about the same time (stick punctured it)

I have the MAINT light on for oil change, though I didn't pull the codes yet. Of course the TPMS light is still on for the past few years ;)

My tires are 1" larger profile, and barely rub on extreme turn, but nothing bad.

She has about 130k and I had the WS tranny fluid and screen changed about 104k via the cooler lines.

I have hauled heavy, and pulled heavy trailers, but not for nearly a year. She isn't all caked up with mud or anything, either, though we do go mild offroading at times.

I have never changed the rear differential fluid, it's been on my list for a while :(

I don't hear any squeeling or noises from the rear end. The ride is smooth, no hoopties like a bend axle would do or anything.

This is the full time 4wd (AWD) model, so I can't just jack up the rear end and spin the wheels. No way to disengage from the tranny to isolate rear trouble from tranny troubles.

Any suggestions how to troubleshoot and isolate this problem, short of pulling the rear universal to drop the rear driveshaft?

We are supposed to leave Sat for a 2 week camping trip and this is my TV. (And it needs inspected)

Thanks!
 
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Additional info

I tested again coasting slowly downhill and locked the center diff. Same effect locked or not.

It went right in, was a little sluggish coming out and came out with a little clunk.

I also picked up my Auto Enginuity scantool I lent out. I purchased the updated software and awaiting my activation code. I have both the Chrysler and Toyota Enhanced versions.

Ideas? Scantool tests to run?

Help!
 
The front calipers are notorious for getting stuck. I would try jacking it up and try to turn each wheel by hand. See which one is sticking. Then I would investigate the brakes first. Maybe something is sticking somewhere. Parking brake stuck on or something. But, quickly jacking it up and testing each wheel shouldn't take longer than like 30 minutes. Also, after driving a little bit touch each rim. If there is a hot one it's probably a brake that is seized. That's what I would try first.
 
settytb, Thanks for the reply.

I'm pretty sure I rules out brakes as the main cause. I haven't pulled the front wheels to check the brakes yet, but since the RR wheel slid a bit and actually skidded on the gravel a bit, I used it for testing the brakes.

I temp disconnected the brake line to that wheel and backed off the parking brake on that wheel, after confirming it was working properly.

It looks like the "main" issue will be in the drive train somewhere?

A question:

If I jack up the rear end so both wheels are off the ground and have the transmission in Neutral, the wheels should spin freely by hand (opposite directions) just like a normal rear end, right?


Second questions:
I was concerned about the transmission, but if coasting in neutral and still getting the problem, that would eliminate the tranny as the problem, right? Or wrong?

Third Question:Being a front wheel drive tranny, it could still hang up the front wheels, right?

I'm not new to regular drivelines and transmissions, but this is my first "electronics, limited slip, super duper" tranny, and I'm not sure about some of these things :sadwave:

Thanks for any help! I'm going out shortly to start on it again.

I could really use some ideas that would cause drag in the drivetrain. I will check the brakes (and appreciate that advice!), but I think I have that part covered.

Help!
 
You're right because you have an awd one with it in neutral there should be some play and they should spin some just like a normal rear diff. It shouldn't be the tranny and it's really pretty rare for the 4runners to break an axle shaft or have a rear wheel bearing seize that hard. Which is why I was leaning toward brakes since it did it while coasting. It could be possible but I seriously doubt it. You could always try draining the rear diff fluid to see if there are any metal shavings in there or chunks (if the shaft broke). Many people say open the filler first because sometimes the bolts get stuck. If you open the filler and can't open the drain no biggie just close it up. But, if you open the drain and can't open the filler that sucks. I'm kinda stumped with you though. I thought for sure it was brakes.... But feel free to jack up the back and try to rotate the tires and see what happens.
 
settytb,

Thanks again for your reply. I'm still working on it.

Here's what I've found so far.

1. When in Neutral a rear wheel can spin free without the other wheel or driveshaft moving, though the drive shaft does sometimes "drag" along with it. In Park, it acts like a standard diff in that the drive shaft rotates and the other rear wheel spins the opposite direction. (Both wheels off the ground)

2. A little seepage at the center diff, near the solenoid. Not sure how to check the fluid level ??? At a quick glance I didn't see a fill or drain plug, but I was inch-wormed under it so maybe I just missed it?

3. The LR emergency brake had some built up rust/dust in it and had a few minimal areas of rubbing. I cleaned it and backed it off, too, so now both rear e-brakes are backed off. The e-brake applies and disengages okay with the hub off. I'll readjust these after the troubleshooting is finished.

4. The rear wheels now spin okay, with some resistance by hand. It doesn't seem overly so as it can be turned by hand with minimal effort. I am not sure how much is okay?

5. I am going to replace both front calipers when they arrive on Friday. Auto Parts Warehouse | Car Parts, Truck Parts & Auto Body Parts Online - Free Shipping on most Auto Accessories & Performance Parts – AutoPartsWarehouse I used these guys again. Under $100/each loaded (pads and brackets) Bendix double piston assemblies. Just be sure of shipping times. I needed it Friday and it took a near act of Congress but they let me pay $15 extra for 2nd day ;) You also pay return shipping of the cores. Best deals I've found so far. Dealer wanted $220/ea no pads.

6. The FR caliper has been hanging again. I've cleaned them up and freed them up a couple of times, so now it's time to replace them. The slider pins build up corrosion and bind the pads. It wasn't frozen solid, but the pads were worn unevenly. Certainly contributes to the drag, but I don't "think" it was enough to be my only problem. If the new caliper pins corrode, I'll break out the lathe and turn some stainless pins for it.

7. My drag is about 1/2 of what it was before. All 6 brakes are freed up (disc and drum e-brake on each rear).

8. I didn't see any leaks in the rear end, though the universal could use some grease :whipping2:


I'll keep you updated and welcome any ideas! I appreciate the input and also those who have read about my problem but didn't have any ideas.

If I can get the plugs out, I'll change the grease in the rear diff before I leave on Sat am. Synthetic 75w-90w, right?
 
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