Where has Toyota’s quality gone?

DRC

New member
As I drive to work this morning my lovely radio in my 2008 4runner shut off 3 times on its own and started displaying that nice blocky distorted display. After turning the radio back on, 3 times, I mistakenly tried to adjust the volume using the volume knob, but oh yeah, that stopped working a few months ago. After coming to a stop at a stop light I start to think what a piece of crap this radio is but was interrupted by the “clunk” from my drive shaft seating. You know that clunk that happens with the 4runners after you stop. Sometimes it feels like you are hit from behind it’s so rough. I get to work and as I walk past my rear tire I stop to admire all the corrosion forming under the paint on the wheels. Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles, every spoke has paint bubbles.

I get to my desk and the wife calls about our 2004 Sienna that is at the dealer, yet again, for another recall. This time the spare tire cable is rusting through causing the spare tire to fall off. Nice! She tells me that the dealer wants $60 just to look at the car and tell us what is making this horribly loud rattling noise. No thank you. See our AC compressor is starting to fail, just like all the other 2004 Sienna’s and is starting to make this rattling sound. I was hopping the dealer could have a quick look while it was on the rack and just tell us what was going on. But nope they will not look at anything unless you pay them $60.

My wife continues to tell me that when they returned the van after servicing the recall the service guy tells her that the “popping” noise the drivers side door is making can be fixed for, get this…$2500. He tells her that some part is welded to the door so they need to replace the entire door. Funny we did not ask them to check this out. We asked them to look at the AC but they would not do that unless we paid them but they will check out the door for free and try and tell us that it’s a $2500 repair. WTF!!!

See, I had already looked at the door and found that the only problem is the safety check assembly, an $80 part. This plastic part is popping when the door is opened or closed. Nothing more. I just need to get the part and pull off the door panel to replace it. But the dealer is trying to sell us a $2500 new door to fix an $80 part. When my wife told me this I wanted to drive over to the dealer and punch this guy in the mouth. $2500!

Here is the list of problems we have had with our 2 Toyota’s:

2004 Sienna
3 sets of tires over 80,000 miles. This thing eats up tires like a hungry teenager eats after school. This sort of abnormal tire wear is NOT normal.
Sunroof broke 3 times and had to be services 4 items. Cheap Toyota plastic parts.
Passenger side sliding door leaked water every time it rained heavy. My daughter would have water dripping on her head from the headliner. Fixed 2 times.
Driver’s side sliding door cable rusted and broke in half. There is this thin steel cable that pulls the door open that rusted through and snapped. Cost to fix…$1800. The cheap steel cable just rusted through. What?
Power lift gate would not stay open. It would fall close. Recall, had to have the hydraulic cylinders replaced. Since then, during the cold weather if you open the hatch it will just automatically close on its own as if you opened the hatch then push the close button to close it.
Radiator leaked, replaced under recall.
Got that nice moldy funky smell coming from under the passenger side carpet for about 3 months one summer. It was a terrible smell. Dealer said it was the AC discharge line or something. They never really told us what was going on and after many, many carpet cleanings the smell went away.
Drivers side door safety check assembly making a popping noise.
Both the sliding doors freeze shut every winter and you can’t get in or out. The kids need to climb over the passenger seat or through the back hatch, if it does not automatically close on them.
AC compressor is starting to fail. Very common issue on the Sienna’s but Toyota refuses to recall saying it’s not a safety issue. Dealer wants between $1500 - $4000 to fix.
Too many recalls to count / list.

2008 4runner:
Stupid junk radio. What a piece of junk this thing is. How do you mess up a radio?
Rear window leaked. Had to fix myself.
Drive shaft clunk issue (will be trying the lube suggestion a lot of you have done for this)
Center dome light switch broke
Cheap finish on the wheels. You can look at a 15 year old American car and their wheels are not corroded this bad.
Dash board under steering wheel comes loose. Every few weeks I need to pop it back together.

Sorry, for the soap box rant. I was just so pissed when my wife told me the dealer wants $2500 to fix a door. It’s funny every time we have a problem I do an internet search and find dozens of other Toyota owners with the exact same problems. We will be replacing the van in about 1 year or so and I have to say Toyota is NOT on my list anymore.

I ask you all, where has the Toyota quality gone?
 
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As I drive to work this morning my lovely radio in my 2008 4runner shut off 3 times on its own and started displaying that nice blocky distorted display. After turning the radio back on, 3 times, I mistakenly tried to adjust the volume using the volume knob, but oh yeah, that stopped working a few months ago. After coming to a stop at a stop light I start to think what a piece of crap this radio is but was interrupted by the “clunk” from my drive shaft seating. You know that clunk that happens with the 4runners after you stop. Sometimes it feels like you are hit from behind it’s so rough. I get to work and as I walk past my rear tire I stop to admire all the corrosion forming under the paint on the wheels. Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles, every spoke has paint bubbles.

I get to my desk and the wife calls about our 2004 Sienna that is at the dealer, yet again, for another recall. This time the spare tire cable is rusting through causing the spare tire to fall off. Nice! She tells me that the dealer wants $60 just to look at the car and tell us what is making this horribly loud rattling noise. No thank you. See our AC compressor is starting to fail, just like all the other 2004 Sienna’s and is starting to make this rattling sound. I was hopping the dealer could have a quick look while it was on the rack and just tell us what was going on. But nope they will not look at anything unless you pay them $60.

My wife continues to tell me that when they returned the van after servicing the recall the service guy tells her that the “popping” noise the drivers side door is making can be fixed for, get this…$2500. He tells her that some part is welded to the door so they need to replace the entire door. Funny we did not ask them to check this out. We asked them to look at the AC but they would not do that unless we paid them but they will check out the door for free and try and tell us that it’s a $2500 repair. WTF!!!

See, I had already looked at the door and found that the only problem is the safety check assembly, an $80 part. This plastic part is popping when the door is opened or closed. Nothing more. I just need to get the part and pull off the door panel to replace it. But the dealer is trying to sell us a $2500 new door to fix an $80 part. When my wife told me this I wanted to drive over to the dealer and punch this guy in the mouth. $2500!

Here is the list of problems we have had with our 2 Toyota’s:

2004 Sienna
3 sets of tires over 80,000 miles. This thing eats up tires like a hungry teenager eats after school. This sort of abnormal tire wear is NOT normal.
Sunroof broke 3 times and had to be services 4 items. Cheap Toyota plastic parts.
Passenger side sliding door leaked water every time it rained heavy. My daughter would have water dripping on her head from the headliner. Fixed 2 times.
Driver’s side sliding door cable rusted and broke in half. There is this thin steel cable that pulls the door open that rusted through and snapped. Cost to fix…$1800. The cheap steel cable just rusted through. What?
Power lift gate would not stay open. It would fall close. Recall, had to have the hydraulic cylinders replaced. Since then, during the cold weather if you open the hatch it will just automatically close on its own as if you opened the hatch then push the close button to close it.
Radiator leaked, replaced under recall.
Got that nice moldy funky smell coming from under the passenger side carpet for about 3 months one summer. It was a terrible smell. Dealer said it was the AC discharge line or something. They never really told us what was going on and after many, many carpet cleanings the smell went away.
Drivers side door safety check assembly making a popping noise.
Both the sliding doors freeze shut every winter and you can’t get in or out. The kids need to climb over the passenger seat or through the back hatch, if it does not automatically close on them.
AC compressor is starting to fail. Very common issue on the Sienna’s but Toyota refuses to recall saying it’s not a safety issue. Dealer wants between $1500 - $4000 to fix.
Too many recalls to count / list.

2008 4runner:
Stupid junk radio. What a piece of junk this thing is. How do you mess up a radio?
Rear window leaked. Had to fix myself.
Drive shaft clunk issue (will be trying the lube suggestion a lot of you have done for this)
Center dome light switch broke
Cheap finish on the wheels. You can look at a 15 year old American car and their wheels are not corroded this bad.
Dash board under steering wheel comes loose. Every few weeks I need to pop it back together.

Sorry, for the soap box rant. I was just so pissed when my wife told me the dealer wants $2500 to fix a door. It’s funny every time we have a problem I do an internet search and find dozens of other Toyota owners with the exact same problems. We will be replacing the van in about 1 year or so and I have to say Toyota is NOT on my list anymore.

I ask you all, where has the Toyota quality gone?

fyi... there was an extension of warranty for the Sienna door check problem that was sent out to customers a while back. its not just a Doorcheck...the reason it happens is b/c the check actually breaks in the door...the door actually needs to be replaced as there is no repairing it...hence the $2500 bucks. but, again, there should be a warranty on it as i send these out on a weekly basis to get repaired at no charge to my customer. check with another dealer.

Toyota doesnt make the radios much like alot of the other components that they've been having trouble with (Computers, Accelerator pedals, etc.etc.) but i can understand your frustration. an 08 should be under warranty anyways so just go and get it replaced.

the rattling noise...noone likes to work for free. lookin at something "since they have it up on the rack" means they are still spending their time lookin for a problem which could take awile...its not as easy as some people make it seem. just imagine you having HVAC guy come to your house b/c your a/c isnt working and than saying to him, "while you're in there, can you clean our the ducts and filters etc.." think they're gonna do that for free??

you've had some issues with the vehicle but just understand that they are machines and will break from time to time...if they didnt, dealers wouldnt need service departments and last time i checked there isnt 1 brand of car that doesnt have a service department. goodluck to you.
 
yah shop dealerships a bit

It sounds like you need to change dealerships for one thing and get Toyota Regional Rep involved for another. Sounds like an overzealous service writer to me.

In this metro area we have several dealers to pick from. We each have our favorite- but if I were having that many issues I would get the local or regional rep involved.

With Toyota spending a million an hour to improve quality per their recent ad campaign you can bet they want to keep customers happy. Complain up the food chain until you can get some satisfaction.

Good luck we can hear the frustration you are going through-but 3 sets of tires for an overweighted front end and front driven Van does not strike me as all that unusual actually. Those tires are doing a lot of work and need rotation constantly to keep the wear even.
 
TNTramair, I can’t help but think you work for a Toyota dealer…(joking)…but thanks for the info on the door check TSB. I did some searching and was able to find the TSB online but it did not talk about any warranty extension or anything just how to fix the issue. I am guessing at 80,000 miles we are on our own. Yeah, I guess I was wrong about it being a simple part replacement. Broken spot weld. Like you suggest I will call around and see what other dealers have to say about this.

About the service charge, my wife did not ask them to do a diagnostic or spend any time investigating this problem. We told them that our AC compressor was acting up and every time we turned on the air it started making a rattle noise. We asked them about a TSB issued for this because we heard this was a common problem and a TSB was issues. All we asked is if they could have a quick look and tell us if it was part of a TSB or not. They would not even turn on the AC without charging us. We have been taking our vehicle to this dealer for 6 years and have spent lots of money with them. Is this how you treat your repeat customers?

Yes, no one likes to work for free, but what about servicing your customers? I own a custom woodworking shop and I have customers call me years after we did work for them asking for stuff. Just the other day a customer of mine called after 5 years asking if we could send him 18” of matching trim for a bookcase because they had a flood and it got damaged. I am not sure how this is my problem and why I should pick up the cost to mail him 18” of trim. But this customer has bought 3 pieces form us over the years and may refer us to new customers. So I head out to the shop, cut an 18” piece of trim and mail it no questions asked out of my pocket. This is how you service your customers. This is what keeps your customers coming back to you and not to your competitors.

I agree that all cars have issues but when these are known issues affecting thousands of vehicles then they are no longer just issues but defects. Just because the issue is not safety related does not mean it’s not a defect. Instead of Toyota issuing recalls to fix some of these known issues Toyota is issuing TSB’s. The difference is a TSB does not require Toyota to fix anything a recall however requires Toyota to fix the issue under warranty or not. And yes all manufactures source their parts but a manufacture should stand behind its finished product. When all 4 of wheels on your brand new truck are corroding in the first year of ownership, the manufacture should replace them. Toyota instead tells you it’s cosmetic.
 
Did you buy it used? Maybe the previous owner did something to fudge things up... I bought mine new and 25K miles later no problems.

To me "quality" is when I get inside my dad's '98 and wonder how a truck 10 years older can feel and look better than the inside of my '08
 
...3 sets of tires for an overweighted front end and front driven Van does not strike me as all that unusual actually. Those tires are doing a lot of work and need rotation constantly to keep the wear even.

Maybe you are right. This is the first van we have owned so I have nothing to compare it to. All my other cars and trucks would go around 50k – 60k before you needed to think about tires. Do mini vans just wear tires out more than cars or trucks?
 
Did you buy it used? Maybe the previous owner did something to fudge things up... I bought mine new and 25K miles later no problems.

To me "quality" is when I get inside my dad's '98 and wonder how a truck 10 years older can feel and look better than the inside of my '08

Nope, brand spanking new with only 28 miles on it.
 
You know, I never thought that I would say this, but Toyota's quality really has gone down the drain.

My 2010 Tacoma is a nice truck, don't get me wrong, but the Toyota quality that I have come to know from my 4Runner just isn't there. I had the thing for only 2 weeks and I decided to look at the undercarriage and I saw many, many specks of surface rust and even a few patches of rust on the rear axle. :roadkill: It even has some rust on the metal components in the interior. It has way, way more rust than my 4Runner accumulated in the past 12 years!

I really hope that the rust is gonna be the only issue (since I have the warranty for the rust) but I look at the plethora of problems on the Tacoma forums and it makes me worry...a lot. :crybaby:
 
TNTramair, I can’t help but think you work for a Toyota dealer…(joking)…but thanks for the info on the door check TSB. I did some searching and was able to find the TSB online but it did not talk about any warranty extension or anything just how to fix the issue. I am guessing at 80,000 miles we are on our own. Yeah, I guess I was wrong about it being a simple part replacement. Broken spot weld. Like you suggest I will call around and see what other dealers have to say about this.

About the service charge, my wife did not ask them to do a diagnostic or spend any time investigating this problem. We told them that our AC compressor was acting up and every time we turned on the air it started making a rattle noise. We asked them about a TSB issued for this because we heard this was a common problem and a TSB was issues. All we asked is if they could have a quick look and tell us if it was part of a TSB or not. They would not even turn on the AC without charging us. We have been taking our vehicle to this dealer for 6 years and have spent lots of money with them. Is this how you treat your repeat customers?

Yes, no one likes to work for free, but what about servicing your customers? I own a custom woodworking shop and I have customers call me years after we did work for them asking for stuff. Just the other day a customer of mine called after 5 years asking if we could send him 18” of matching trim for a bookcase because they had a flood and it got damaged. I am not sure how this is my problem and why I should pick up the cost to mail him 18” of trim. But this customer has bought 3 pieces form us over the years and may refer us to new customers. So I head out to the shop, cut an 18” piece of trim and mail it no questions asked out of my pocket. This is how you service your customers. This is what keeps your customers coming back to you and not to your competitors.

I agree that all cars have issues but when these are known issues affecting thousands of vehicles then they are no longer just issues but defects. Just because the issue is not safety related does not mean it’s not a defect. Instead of Toyota issuing recalls to fix some of these known issues Toyota is issuing TSB’s. The difference is a TSB does not require Toyota to fix anything a recall however requires Toyota to fix the issue under warranty or not. And yes all manufactures source their parts but a manufacture should stand behind its finished product. When all 4 of wheels on your brand new truck are corroding in the first year of ownership, the manufacture should replace them. Toyota instead tells you it’s cosmetic.

dont take my comments as a defense just b/c i work for a dealer. first things first, im an enthusiast and i just happen to work in the industry. ive helped several people on here and on the other board with concerns they may have and do what i can to provide important info.

ill look up that warranty info and report back...EDIT- 5 YEARS 100,000 miles.

you provided a great service to your customer and generally ill go above and beyond to help any of my customers. but not everyone works like i do and this is why not all dealers are the same.

ill report back to you when i have the info.
 
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ok..well the warranty was extended to 5 years or 100,000 miles from the original purchase date so i think your 04 would be out the reason why they would want to charge you for the repair. the cust support number is -POL-07-04 i would suggest giving Toyota a call and start a claim with them...im willing to bet they would extend a courtesy to you and repair it or pay for some or most of it. its worth a shot, worse they can do is say no and you're back to square 1.
 
Thing is that as Toyota got bigger, they likely did sacrifice quality. When you get that big, that fast (pretty much over the past 10-15 years) something is going ot give. Should have ensured that the quality is there as you got bigger.

I have an '07 4Runner Sport with 49,000 miles. Only problem I have had with it is the seal on the gas cap leaked. Replaced under warranty (obviously an issue from the supplier.) Truck has gone from New England to Montana and back. New England to Florida and back. Neither with any issues, problems, or complaints. Going to Colorado/Wyoming/Montana again in a short bit and expect the same.

Only problem I see is a bit of rust on the trailer hitch and the undercarriage.....partially to blame due to the incredible amounts of salt they lay down on the roads around here in the Winter, and some lower quality steel used.

I also own a 2010 Tacoma Sport that we bought about 6 weeks ago. No problems I see as of yet with that new Beast.

Go trolling the boards for Fords, Chevies, Jeeps, Dodge, and Nissan and you will likely see many of the same gripes for their vehicles.
 
ok..well the warranty was extended to 5 years or 100,000 miles from the original purchase date so i think your 04 would be out the reason why they would want to charge you for the repair. the cust support number is -POL-07-04 i would suggest giving Toyota a call and start a claim with them...im willing to bet they would extend a courtesy to you and repair it or pay for some or most of it. its worth a shot, worse they can do is say no and you're back to square 1.

TNTramair, thanks for the follow up. I will try calling Toyota and see what they say. I appreciate the information. I wish the folks at my local dealer were as helpful as you. :thumb3:
 
TNTramair, thanks for the follow up. I will try calling Toyota and see what they say. I appreciate the information. I wish the folks at my local dealer were as helpful as you. :thumb3:

anytime...i hope they do something for ya. im allways trolling around here so if you ever need anything else just shoot me a PM and ill try to help out in any way i can.

am i the only one thinking lemon law on the sienna? seems like you would have been close to criteria

what criteria would that be?? what is the lemon law in your state?
 
Did anyone else see that tv special on Toyota and how they raced to become #1 after 2002 and have the recalls as a result? Some good information there...
It is definitely a result of farming out the parts (which they cannot quality control), but hopefully they are refocused again.
 
the rattling noise...noone likes to work for free. lookin at something "since they have it up on the rack" means they are still spending their time lookin for a problem which could take awile...its not as easy as some people make it seem. just imagine you having HVAC guy come to your house b/c your a/c isnt working and than saying to him, "while you're in there, can you clean our the ducts and filters etc.." think they're gonna do that for free??

you've had some issues with the vehicle but just understand that they are machines and will break from time to time...if they didnt, dealers wouldnt need service departments and last time i checked there isnt 1 brand of car that doesnt have a service department. goodluck to you.

When you are in a service related business you are expected to look at something for free. The customer then pays your grossly inflated flat rate labor for the repair. Dealers are greedily bleeding every nickel and dime out of service customers, and often ripping people off for expensive repairs. It is only at a dealer will one hear "it can't be repaired.. only replaced for 2,500. This type of rip off comes from a commission based service writer who knows little about car repair and plenty about ****ing people over.
 
When you are in a service related business you are expected to look at something for free. The customer then pays your grossly inflated flat rate labor for the repair. Dealers are greedily bleeding every nickel and dime out of service customers, and often ripping people off for expensive repairs. It is only at a dealer will one hear "it can't be repaired.. only replaced for 2,500. This type of rip off comes from a commission based service writer who knows little about car repair and plenty about ****ing people over.

so i guess lawyers and doctors charge just enough for their services and never do anything for free but you would expect them to???

grossly inflated?? im sorry you dont understand that dealers employ some of the best techs in the industry and have to spend thousands of dollars on training every year to keep them up to date on all the new technology that comes out with every new car. or the hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment we have in every dealership to work with said vehicles. or just the basic cost of day to day operation and maintenance. i guess we're just supposed to forget about all that right?

thats right...we replace a part when its broken. why would we fix something that broke?? isnt that like putting a bandaid on it?? we do things the right way...not much left on these new cars that can "just be repaired".

it sounds like you were ripped off (or think you were) at some point in time and it left a sour taste in your mouth...understandable, happens to everyone. but dont catogorize all Writers b/c its no differant than other line of work. you're gonna have good ones and bad ones...just the nature of the beast.

i, for one, dont rip anyone off...there's enough honest work around for me to make a living. i simply dont need to do it. cheers!
 
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so i guess lawyers and doctors charge just enough for their services and never do anything for free but you would expect them to???

grossly inflated?? im sorry you dont understand that dealers employ some of the best techs in the industry and have to spend thousands of dollars on training every year to keep them up to date on all the new technology that comes out with every new car. or the hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment we have in every dealership to work with said vehicles. or just the basic cost of day to day operation and maintenance. i guess we're just supposed to forget about all that right?

thats right...we replace a part when its broken. why would we fix something that broke?? isnt that like putting a bandaid on it?? we do things the right way...not much left on these new cars that can "just be repaired".

it sounds like you were ripped off (or think you were) at some point in time and it left a sour taste in your mouth...understandable, happens to everyone. but dont catogorize all Writers b/c its no differant than other line of work. you're gonna have good ones and bad ones...just the nature of the beast.

i, for one, dont rip anyone off...there's enough honest work around for me to make a living. i simply dont need to do it. cheers!

In my experience the worst techs I've encountered were at dealers. And generally dealerships are the most impersonal with subpar customer service. Toyota dealerships were no different. I understand that Toyota techs should be the most qualified to repair anything on your Toyota vehicle because of specialized training, the fact is that they are not. I agree with Rook that the labor rate is grossly inflated and there are many things on a vehicle that can be serviced or repaired before being replaced. Everytime you replace a part that can be repaired, you are ripping off a customer. Everytime you charge a diagnostic fee and incorrectly diagnose a problem, you are ripping off a customer. Everytime you go to charge a customer for service without referencing TSBs or possible warranty coverage, you are ripping off a customer. All of these things have happened to me at a Toyota dealership and some of them at other dealerships. There is no excuse for it so I don't bring vehicles to dealerships anymore.

Fwiw, I still think Toyota produces quality vehicles, but they are not the best and there is a well documented decrease in quality. Toyota also commands a premium for their name that I don't feel is justified anymore because of lower quality and poor customer service.
 

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