who makes cat backs?
- Thread starter huhwhye
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He's talking about a universal muffler. I guess I could go the muffler shop route. I just don't like cheesy crunch bent pipes.
What do you think is quieter a 20" Dynomax Super Turbo or a 24" Magnaflow.
I know the Magnaflow flows better but I really don't want to hear too much from the motor.
What do you think is quieter a 20" Dynomax Super Turbo or a 24" Magnaflow.
I know the Magnaflow flows better but I really don't want to hear too much from the motor.
QSVeilside
New member
huhwhye said:
The 28" Magnaflow is just a little bit louder than stock. Nice rumble at idle. Roars at WOT. No annoying 2000 rpm drone.
Part number: 14586
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=643
Just reuse the stock piping, (fits right inside the inlet pipes on the muffler), and have a shop weld it. OR you can buy stainless mandrel bent 2.5" pipes and have the shop weld those up. If you are not supercharged, the latter is a waste of money.
Example of T304 stainless steel mandrel bends on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-5-...003QQitemZ130178373753QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Example of 409 stianless steel mandrel bends on ebay. Cheaper, and won't last as long as T304, but is better than aluminized mild steel and for MOST exhaust applications is sufficient.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAND...008QQitemZ180086399356QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
QSVeilside
New member
huhwhye said:
Looks like they were removed or the link for some reason doesn't work. Doesn't matter. Try searching ebay for "mandrel bend 304" and "mandrel bend 409"
The pipe that has both the U bend and 45 deg bend is what you want. Should be easy enough for you to find straight 304 and 409 pipes specific to your measurements.
2.25" diameter is stock. 2.5" diameter is for supercharged trucks.
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
My friend works at a exhaust shop and he uses nicely soft bent pipes (paying extra for mandrel bent on a NA 4Runner is kinda silly) and you can't tell by looking and who's seeing that much of your exhaust anyway? 
I got a quote for a full job for a little over $300 (standard price,a little more for SS) for new pipes and the 24" muffler and a nice tip.
I can't see spending double for a full catback that will net nothing more in performance or sound but I also don't have a deep wallet to spend extra for madrel bent pipes and a TRD logo even tho' the TRD does look good.
I got a quote for a full job for a little over $300 (standard price,a little more for SS) for new pipes and the 24" muffler and a nice tip.
I can't see spending double for a full catback that will net nothing more in performance or sound but I also don't have a deep wallet to spend extra for madrel bent pipes and a TRD logo even tho' the TRD does look good.
QSVeilside
New member
RonMAIDEN said:My friend works at a exhaust shop and he uses nicely soft bent pipes (paying extra for mandrel bent on a NA 4Runner is kinda silly) and you can't tell by looking and who's seeing that much of your exhaust anyway?
I got a quote for a full job for a little over $300 (standard price,a little more for SS) for new pipes and the 24" muffler and a nice tip.
I can't see spending double for a full catback that will net nothing more in performance or sound but I also don't have a deep wallet to spend extra for madrel bent pipes and a TRD logo even tho' the TRD does look good.
I can't see spending money for an exhaust system that's more restrictive than stock.
Mandrel bending has absolutely NOTHING to do with looks, and has everything to do with performance. If you are not going with mandrel bent pipes, RE-USE the stock piping, (cheaper anyway). Changing the stock pipes for crush bent aluminumized mild steel pipes is a downgrade.
"Consider a straight plastic straw that you might use to drink a soft drink. If the straw is completely straight, it's very easy to blow air through the straw, as there are no restrictions. However, lets say you decide to bend the straw 90 degrees into an "L" shape. Now, blowing air through the straw will be very difficult, as the opening at the straw's elbow will have changed from a circle to a very narrow slit. This is exactly how the pipes in your car's intake and exhaust system work. Air is drawn through pipes, which, when "compression bent," become very restrictive to the flow of air. Mandrel bending is the solution to this problem. Mandrel bending works much like the flexible straws that you can buy in a grocery store. When the straw is bent, a flexible section of the straw expands to maintain the round opening no matter how much of an angle the straw is bent at. When an exhaust or downpipe is manufactured with mandrel bends, the steel is allowed to stretch on the outside of the bend and compress on the inside of the bend, maintaining the nominal pipe diameter. Exhaust gas follows fluid dynamics. You want to eliminate backpressure while maintaining exhaust gas velocity. Mandrel bending allows the hot exhaust gases to flow with less turbulence.
Remember, all of your muffler & exhaust manufactures, all of your
car & truck magazines that do there own independent tests. And
all of the independent test that you see on the internet all show the advantages of mandrel bending over press bending.
2. Myth-You don't need mandrel bending unless you have a nascar running 800+ horsepower.
Truth-Mandrel bending alone will add 3-5% more horsepower and torque.
3. Myth-Your motor is to small for mandrel bending to make any difference.
Truth-It doesn't matter what size your motor is you will still get a
3-5% gain in horsepower & torque. Obviously the bigger the motor, and the more horsepower you have, the larger the gains."
http://www.bobsmuffler.com/muffler_myths.htm
Here's another one taken directly off superstreet.com
"Q. Hi. I was just wondering about differences in mandrel and crush bent exhaust piping because where I live, mandrel bending isn't really an option. I wanted to find out if you could use a slightly larger diameter pipe to solve the back pressure problem if I were to use the crush method on my NA SR20.
Mark
Barbados
A. Ideally, mandrel bent exhaust piping would be the way to go. Crush bent is cheesy and restricts flow at every bend. Even if you increase the piping diameter throughout, you'll still be restricted by the smallest point along the way. Fortunately, with the NA motor you could use a little bit of back pressure, but if it were up to us, we'd go mandrel bent all the way. Since you don't have access to the mandrel bending machines, another option would be to use mandrel bent elbows and weld them in where needed when fabricating up the exhaust. You can look at a lot of the big manufacturer exhausts to steal ideas for yours. You'll notice that most of them don't follow the stock exhaust bends, but are altered to be as straight as possible from front to back."
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Just because I'm new to this site doesn't mean I'm a newb.
You don't have to tell me the benefits of mandrel. I already said crunch bends are cheesy, I would rather not have them.
Problem is I would rather buy an exhaust already mandrel. That's why the thread was directed at cat backs.
I asked a simple question, who makes a cat back for a 3rd gen runner?
Sucks that nobody makes a decent price stainless cat back for these vehicles.
At this point I don't feet like fabricating an exhaust. Maybe when I have more time on my hands and a welder I'll consider it.
You don't have to tell me the benefits of mandrel. I already said crunch bends are cheesy, I would rather not have them.
Problem is I would rather buy an exhaust already mandrel. That's why the thread was directed at cat backs.
I asked a simple question, who makes a cat back for a 3rd gen runner?
Sucks that nobody makes a decent price stainless cat back for these vehicles.
At this point I don't feet like fabricating an exhaust. Maybe when I have more time on my hands and a welder I'll consider it.
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
My point was my friend uses soft bends vs madrel which there is no performance gain on a dyno on a otherwise stock NA Runner,I was there for a comparison between my friend's catback setup and a TRD mandrel bent exhaust. There was literally zero gain in HP or torque.
This is just talking about performance gain or lack of on a stock 3.4 and is a waste of money on a 183hp engine and I saw the proof.
If you can offer me proof that madrel bends make a diff on a stock 4Runner then I might be interested.
My friend will do SS pipes for $100 which is still at $400 for his catback.
Now on a turboed or SC'd vehicle mandrel bends mean everything but I never pay extra for them on my 4Runner and that was my point and i was just trying to save somebody who might be on a budget save some money.
This is just talking about performance gain or lack of on a stock 3.4 and is a waste of money on a 183hp engine and I saw the proof.
If you can offer me proof that madrel bends make a diff on a stock 4Runner then I might be interested.
My friend will do SS pipes for $100 which is still at $400 for his catback.
Now on a turboed or SC'd vehicle mandrel bends mean everything but I never pay extra for them on my 4Runner and that was my point and i was just trying to save somebody who might be on a budget save some money.
QSVeilside
New member
Ron,
Cheers for trying to save the guy money. Sorry to hear that your friend bought a TRD system. Should've done his homework before dumping $700 + installation on it. Hopefully the dyno you describe was done on the same truck on the same day... you know damn well not to compare two different trucks, (with different mileage on the engines), on two different days, on two different dynos, just to make an assessment of a 3-5% gain in power.
Here is a dyno showing rwhp gains with a mandrel bent Jardine system added to the same truck on the same day. The truck also has the Thorley headers.
http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97992&highlight=thorley+headers+dyno
Comparisons on other cars:
http://www.bobsmuffler.com/dyno.htm
My point is, if you can do it mandrel bent, go for it.
Cost of Magnaflow muffler:
Under $100
Cost of Mandrel bends in 409 Stainless:
$60 for two bends J + U, probably another $20 for a straight pipe
Cost of welds and installation:
Local shop charged me $200 to install everything
The original post requested information on catbacks. I simply provided information on why he should consider other alternatives. You provided reasons why he should bypass mandrel bends on the basis of cost/performance gain. We all could use a little more cash so once again, it is a valid point.
Up to you huhwhye. LOL...
Cheers for trying to save the guy money. Sorry to hear that your friend bought a TRD system. Should've done his homework before dumping $700 + installation on it. Hopefully the dyno you describe was done on the same truck on the same day... you know damn well not to compare two different trucks, (with different mileage on the engines), on two different days, on two different dynos, just to make an assessment of a 3-5% gain in power.
Here is a dyno showing rwhp gains with a mandrel bent Jardine system added to the same truck on the same day. The truck also has the Thorley headers.
http://www.customtacos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97992&highlight=thorley+headers+dyno
Comparisons on other cars:
http://www.bobsmuffler.com/dyno.htm
My point is, if you can do it mandrel bent, go for it.
Cost of Magnaflow muffler:
Under $100
Cost of Mandrel bends in 409 Stainless:
$60 for two bends J + U, probably another $20 for a straight pipe
Cost of welds and installation:
Local shop charged me $200 to install everything
The original post requested information on catbacks. I simply provided information on why he should consider other alternatives. You provided reasons why he should bypass mandrel bends on the basis of cost/performance gain. We all could use a little more cash so once again, it is a valid point.
Up to you huhwhye. LOL...
Dreamw0rkz
New member
yeah i bought my TRD cat-back from ebay.. Thanks ebay !!! i paid about $400 ... sounds good with TRD , not too loud ..
