Who's the next president?

[peter78]

I am learning more about the prestidential race than any newcast or newpaper. Thai your information on Health care is very helpful.

When my family went to Canada in 2001 my son got sick and I had to go the the emergency room. Here are some things I noticed from going in for about 6 hours.

1.) At the entrance, a nurse talked to the people coming in. She would send some away, telling them to take an pain pill and call back tomorrow. She took no names. Other would get to go in right away. When we walked in, she told us to wait for the doctor. They did not ask for our names or insurance. I think you would agree this is different than our hospitals.

2.) The service seemed fine, just like ours. You hurry up to wait. The people were first rate and friendly.

3.) When going in there was a pickett sign, the nurses were going on strike. I found out they went on strike the next day.

4.) I talked to a few people there about health care. They accept it warts or no warts. One person said he is going down to Florida, but will have to come back after April and then they can get some more medical care.

5.) I also noticed they had a VAT tax on everything, it was 17%. I have no idea what the value added tax was used for though.

I know we need a change, but I am not sure what kind of change we need.

 

[Thai]

1.) At the entrance, a nurse talked to the people coming in. She would send some away, telling them to take an pain pill and call back tomorrow. She took no names. Other would get to go in right away. When we walked in, she told us to wait for the doctor. They did not ask for our names or insurance. I think you would agree this is different than our hospitals.

4.) I talked to a few people there about health care. They accept it warts or no warts. One person said he is going down to Florida, but will have to come back after April and then they can get some more medical care.

5.) I also noticed they had a VAT tax on everything, it was 17%. I have no idea what the value added tax was used for though.

They did not ask for you names?? How are they going to keep records of you??

The difference is that in the US, a triage nurse is there to collect initial vital signs and "triage" the patient in accordance to severity. EVERY patient is seen by the ER doctor...and it is up to the doctor to determine where the patient goes (home vs. admitted to hospital).

The problem with the Canadian system (as you described) is that you're relying on a nurse to tell you if you can come in or not...you may have been lucky that day that the ER was not busy, so the nurse was "generous." If the ER was busy, then the nurse could potentially turn away sick patients that needed to see a doctor. Maybe that is why many citizens of these universal healthcare system are so unhappy. They get turned away from the ER, forcing them to go see their PCP or specialist, which means that they are once again on the waiting list forever.

Personally, i prefer to get an ER doctor over a nurse to tell me if i can go home or not. In the US, most ER doctor do practice safe (maybe too safe??) medicine because you are governed by the medical board and by the lawyers that is always knocking on your door. No matter how much i dislike a lawyer, they are there for a reason...ACCOUNTABILITY. It makes us look over our shoulder to practice within standard of care. Are there exceptions?? Of course, but you know what i mean.

Do you have the same accountability in Canada??? For example, a nurse turns away a person with stomach ache that turned out to be a heart attack...what will happen to the nurse or the doctor in the ER that day?? Will the hospital care that such a thing happened?? The nurse will probably be reprimanded...but what else?? Now, compare that example with what would happen to the hospital, doctor, and nurse if that same thing happened...ain't pretty!! For better or worst, ACCOUNTABILITY is important.

Is there a reason why doctors in Canada are running to the US despite our horrible system??

As for the tax, you can see why it is so high...money has to come from somewhere to pay for the universal healthcare.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I think we should start referring to Mccain as the Chief-of-gaffe after this week;he's starting to remind me of Bob Dole.

 

[peter78]

I think we should start referring to Mccain as the Chief-of-gaffe

I think half of the members here would use Obama's name there instead of McCain's. We are doing pretty good in this thread without name calling.

They did not ask for you names?? How are they going to keep records of you??

They didn't at the beginning. After the doctor looked at us, we had to fill out the forms. We got billed for our visit. It was around $450. I think our insurance paid for some, but since it was out of their perferred doctors, they didn't pay much.

 

[benormous]

Is there a reason you keep misspelling Obama's name Oboma?

 

[peter78]

Is there a reason you keep misspelling Obama's name Oboma?

Just a terrible speller. Now that I look at all my posts, I spelled his name wrong every time. I might learn his name in the next 4 years though. I went ahead and changed my posts.

 

[Thai]

Just a terrible speller. Now that I look at all my posts, I spelled his name wrong every time. I might learn his name in the next 4 years though. I went ahead and changed my posts.

It just mean that deep down, you have no respect for him.

 

[JB.]

The next president may have circumstances forced upon him that he can, even now, scarcely imagine.

The financial situation presently unfolding added to the untenable debt obligations I linked and alluded to in the other post, coupled with a deflating economy is a perfect storm that will soon push every other story off the front pages and dominate water cooler talk...for those who still have water coolers to talk around.

On a brighter note, the Governments long term program to promote and increase home ownership has succeeded in spectacular fashion. Every taxpayer in America is a home owner now. I'm considering upgrading to a van down by the river.

 

[peter78]

The next president may have circumstances forced upon him that he can, even now, scarcely imagine.

The financial situation presently unfolding added to the untenable debt obligations I linked and alluded to in the other post, coupled with a deflating economy is a perfect storm that will soon push every other story off the front pages and dominate water cooler talk...for those who still have water coolers to talk around.

After seeing the Sunday morning news shows, I think that if we pass the 700 billion dollar bail out ( or what ever it is going to cost) will change things. I would think universal health care is out, at least for now.

This seems to be one time where events overcome the election. The next president will inherit these events that are happening now and there is not much we can do about it.

 

[JB.]

After seeing the Sunday morning news shows, I think that if we pass the 700 billion dollar bail out ( or what ever it is going to cost) will change things.

I hope you're right, but gathering a list of Paulson's recent public statements demonstrates a complete lack of any credibility. In my view, debt is just being moved around. It has to settle sometime.

 

[Falls]

I hope you're right, but gathering a list of Paulson's recent public statements demonstrates a complete lack of any credibility. In my view, debt is just being moved around. It has to settle sometime.

Rob Peter to pay Paul.

The story on how American people live beyond their means .

 

[peter78]

After seeing the Sunday morning news shows, I think that if we pass the 700 billion dollar bail out ( or what ever it is going to cost) will change things. I would think universal health care is out, at least for now.

This seems to be one time where events overcome the election. The next president will inherit these events that are happening now and there is not much we can do about it.

Oops, I must admit I was wrong. I saw the debate last night and Obama was asked what is he going to cut back because of the 700 billion dollar bail out. He said he is going ahead with the health care and he is cutting back on a few things, but basically he is full steam ahead. I guess I don't understand economics and Obama must understand it better than me.

 

[peter78]

We have talked a lot about Health Care in this thread. Well, Consumer Reports, November 2008 issue just came out and they compare the two health care plans from McCain and Obama. To me it was pretty good. For me, a person that is well isured, "The Mcain pan would save me perhaps $2,500 a year". If I do change jobs, I must avoid a lapse of coverage of more than two months. It talks about the proposed plan if your over 60 and struggling, well insured, young and uninsured, someone with no safety net, ill and underinsured.

It is a decent article, it does stress that these plans are proposed and things can change when they get into the office. If you are concerned about health care, you may one to look for the issue. Many public libaries may have a copy or you can buy it. It is on page 16, November issue.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

One way to save money that is never mentioned:

Stop giving "free" (to them, anyway) health care to illegal immigrants. Sure, they're not the only ones freeloading the system; but it is a darn good place to start.

Nobody will say it, though, since such a concept is not politically correct.
:bash:

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"If you think health care is expensive now, just wait unti it is free."
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[TheBlueWave]

One way to save money that is never mentioned:

Stop giving "free" (to them, anyway) health care to illegal immigrants. Sure, they're not the only ones freeloading the system; but it is a darn good place to start.

Nobody will say it, though, since such a concept is not politically correct.
:bash:

==================================================
"If you think health care is expensive now, just wait unti it is free."
==================================================

I'll say it, I'm not afraid to be politically incorrect. Only problem with that is, what do we do with them? Leave them out on the curb next to the ER entrance?
Best thing would be to keep them out in the first place, which brings up another topic...

Okay, someone else can start that one :bigok:

 

[biskit]

Bob Barr.

Okay okay, so it ain't gonna happen for me... but it would be nice to see.

 

[Fro-Runner]

quote:Originally posted by MikesToy
i'd like to see Arnold Swazzenegger be president some day.

You obviously don't live in California do you?? :biggrin2: :bigok:

I second sportrunner's reply! You obviously haven't lived in the state of Califunky lately. We are once again BROKE just like we were under the Gov. Gray Davis administration.
Credit is so bad that Califunky can't borrow 7 million dollars off the free market. Gov. Arnold Smoochagoobbernor has to ask the Federal government for this loan. I can't see much he's done for the great flake of a state (Califunky).
Since he's been Grubbenor, we've seen him flip-flop on issues and try to kiss George Bushwacker's hiney. After Sir George left Arnold out on a limb a few times then the Grubbernor flipped-flopped on his support for the Bushwacker administration.

Arnold actually wants the Califunky legislature to abolish term limits for the Governor so that he may continue to "Terminator" this state worthiness. Aghhhhh!
"I'll be back"!

 

[Uneek]

:iagree: hell, I say we might as well recall Arnold... he's doing a worst job than Davis did, boot him too. Who cares, we're already in a huge deficit what's another few hundred thousand or whatever it takes to run a recall election.

Good gracious, good thing Arnold can't be president because he's not US born. :bash:

 

[Fro-Runner]

My issues with these two presidential candidates is:

Sen. John "Captiv-ating" McCain reminds me of vice president **** "Tracy" Cheney in that he seems to want things his way along with POWER.
:::::::::::::::while::::::::::::::::

Sen. Barrack "charity" Obama reminds me of Bill "Smooth Talker" Clinton in that he mumbles his way through an answer to a question with smiles and a subtle joke until the public gives in and says.............errrrrrrr OK!

I did noticed that both candidates wanted to see a bailout resolution passed before he took office so that the blame could be placed on the Bush administration if it doesn't work. Neither one of them wanted to come into office with this hanging over his head.

I'll be doing the old coin toss thing at the poll booth on Nov. 4th. :help:

 

[Fro-Runner]

:iagree: hell, I say we might as well recall Arnold... he's doing a worst job than Davis did, boot him too. Who cares, we're already in a huge deficit what's another few hundred thousand or whatever it takes to run a recall election.

Good gracious, good thing Arnold can't be president because he's not US born. :bash:

LOL...... I agree wholeheartly! The dude was supposed to be tough on immigration. NOT! More and more and more from all different countries continue to show up.
--He was suppose to put Califunky's economy back on top. NOT! We have one of the highest state taxes in the nation in relation to our avg household income.
--He promised on time budgets unlike the Davis administration. NOT! Late every year.
--He promised to investigate electric and gas price gouging and bring those responsible to justice. NOT! He asked the Bushwacker administration for help back during the rolling blackouts and they told him to sit down and shut up....which he did!

If he were President of the USA; then all US citizens would know the true meaning of the word Terminator--(extension of one's finances through taxation, support of high dollar social programs and a bunch of tough talk with NO actual actions! Nuff said.