Who's the next president?
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Thai
Elite Member
RonMAIDEN said:
It is really not a competition for me...but i do care about it because of how it will affect my family. But, yes, i will stalk you night and day to remind you of my victory!
Hell, i will just recommend Gatorgreg to make you a "Registered Member" again! 
Palin is kinda crazy...gotta admit.
Like i said, yeah, i am a Republican, but i am voting this year due to how my family and my core values are affected by the candidates.Thai said:Unfortunately, if my wife and I work to our potential, then we are in this "1%" tax bracket. Am i struggling?? I struggle like the average American...we watch our budget, we watch how much we drive and spend on gas, we watch our 401k, etc..
Joe the Plumber is named Joe, isn't he?? Maybe i am outdated, but his name is Joe and some long last name?? What is his name??
He may be a fake, but his situation is NOT. My wife's aunt owns a small corner store and is indeed concern about Obama's tax plan.
You need to ask your local doctors and hospitals about how they feel about Blue Cross Blue Shield in general!! Only a rare few BCBS plan is widely accepted. Why i know this?? My wife works for the government (indirectly) and has BCBS.
Your European friends are lying to you!!
It's not if your aunt's small store makes $250k a year, it's if your aunt's store makes $250k PROFIT, and the new rate only applies to the profit above $250k. Anything below that and she will see a tax cut. The bottom line is you and just about everyone around you (and on this message board) will do better under Obama's plan. The idea that 250k annually isn't a lot of money is just baloney. I lived in Northern Virgina for quite a while, and I grew up in LA. Sure it won't get you the same that it will out in Arizona, but it's not chump change.
It is NOT widely acknowledged that universal health care in other countries is a failure. That's a right wing radio talking point. Europeans generally can't fathom the idea of anyone not having access to health care because they can't afford it. You can call it different core beliefs or whatever, but they have universal health care because they believe in it, not because it's a failure.
Oh, and his real name was Samuel J Wurzelbacher.
Re: Socialism (Cont'd)
I totally understand the points you're making about the government sticking to the enumerated powers and strict Constitutionalism. Frankly, when I was younger I thought the same thing but I came to realize we can't be competitive in the world economy if we were to adopt such a stance. It would literally push our society into the gutter. Plus there are things like women and blacks not being able to vote in the original versions that shows wisdom often comes with time. The important thing is the founders got the part right about government interference into citizens personal affairs.
So I've become more of a liberal with civil libertarian thrown in. Don't touch my guns, don't bother me if I smoke a joint, don't listen to my phone calls, etc, etc. But, when I see people getting their entire lives screwed up our subpar medical system I get pissed. We've let the insurance companies and the medical system screw us as citizens for way too long. The government = the people we voted in. We need to snap the whip. If you think the government is a pile, do something about. Encourage your friends to learn the issues and vote.
Jeff Kleb said:
I totally understand the points you're making about the government sticking to the enumerated powers and strict Constitutionalism. Frankly, when I was younger I thought the same thing but I came to realize we can't be competitive in the world economy if we were to adopt such a stance. It would literally push our society into the gutter. Plus there are things like women and blacks not being able to vote in the original versions that shows wisdom often comes with time. The important thing is the founders got the part right about government interference into citizens personal affairs.
So I've become more of a liberal with civil libertarian thrown in. Don't touch my guns, don't bother me if I smoke a joint, don't listen to my phone calls, etc, etc. But, when I see people getting their entire lives screwed up our subpar medical system I get pissed. We've let the insurance companies and the medical system screw us as citizens for way too long. The government = the people we voted in. We need to snap the whip. If you think the government is a pile, do something about. Encourage your friends to learn the issues and vote.
TheBlueWave
New member
Thai said:
I grew up in a crummy area (not like Houston, though) and got through college with government loans and grants, along with a few scholarships. My mom went without health insurance but my brother and I were covered under MN care, a free program from the state because my mom couldn't afford it despite working three jobs for ten straight years. Despite all this, she is a republican by nature, and I am too, overall. But I have to aknowledge that the government's "socialist" policies kept me in good health and turned me into the "tax payer" :bash: I am today.
Yes, I also saw abuse in the welfare system on a daily basis growing up. I also heard people whine and complain that the government wasn't doing enough for them, despite the fact they didn't have full time jobs ("why won't they train me?" was what I always heard). So, it bothers me when people who grew up rich say that health care is a priveledge and that hard work pays off when they have never worried about getting sick or working hard just to eat.
The point of this rant is that yes, hard work does pay off. But where do we draw the line? There are people like Thai and myself who pulled ourselves out of poverty, but I sure needed help from the government to do it (can't speak for Thai). How do we decide which "poor" people to help out? If Elephants roamed the streets and got their way, no one would get help, and if Donkeys ran around taxing everyone like me, everyone would, even those who abuse the help. Which candidate is the right choice? All I can say is that I'm glad I still have a couple weeks to decide.
TheBlueWave said:
Man that sucks!!! I hate to hear stories like that. 3 freaking jobs and no health care!! WTF. This is what pisses me off about people saying you need to "earn" health care. Your mom earned it by anyone's standards. Yet the Republican party keeps perpetuating the fantasy that the Democrats seek to do nothing but make citizens part with their money. The fact of the matter is John McCain wants to give a substantial tax break to the wealthy. Obama wants to give a tax break to those making less than $250k. If you make more than 250,000, the tax increase will be 3% on income above 250k. The Republicans of course have spun this so it sounds like the second coming of Stalin. The point comes where enough is enough and the country begins to recognize which candidate is really better for them. The Republican party has screwed the people for long enough. And it's not that I think their intentions are bad always, they just don't have the right ideas for this period of time in our history.
Reminds me of the quote from Harry S Truman:
"How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you realize that you're getting hit over the head?"
Thai
Elite Member
TheBlueWave said:
I actually grew up in Miami. My parents immigrated over to the US with literally nothing (from Vietnam). My father luckily found a job at a garbage company as a custodian. He worked his way up to become a computer "analyst" with a lot of self learning...remember, he did not have any formal training in computers. He made just enough to support the whole family (consists of 6 people) on one paycheck.
When i got out of med school, my school loans (college + med school) totaled around $150,000. That is with me living at home and getting some help from scholarships. It is much more for most other people and, esp. nowadays. An average doctor takes about 10 years to pay off his/her loans...i heard this statistic 10 years ago...i am not sure how much worst it is now.
Benormous, you do the math...it doesn't look to rosy for future doctors!
So, yeah, i believe that hardwork goes a long way. As always, i think that there are exceptions to the rule, but like you, at what point do we help everyone out?? I see many people abuse the system along the way. Again, like mentioned above, my family may have to cut back on work to keep below the magic $250k mark. 3% may not sound a lot, but it sure sounds plenty to me!
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Thai said:I actually grew up in Miami. My parents immigrated over to the US with literally nothing (from Vietnam). My father luckily found a job at a garbage company as a custodian. He worked his way up to become a computer "analyst" with a lot of self learning...remember, he did not have any formal training in computers. He made just enough to support the whole family (consists of 6 people) on one paycheck.
When i got out of med school, my school loans (college + med school) totaled around $150,000. That is with me living at home and getting some help from scholarships. It is much more for most other people and, esp. nowadays. An average doctor takes about 10 years to pay off his/her loans...i heard this statistic 10 years ago...i am not sure how much worst it is now.
Benormous, you do the math...it doesn't look to rosy for future doctors!
So, yeah, i believe that hardwork goes a long way. As always, i think that there are exceptions to the rule, but like you, at what point do we help everyone out?? I see many people abuse the system along the way. Again, like mentioned above, my family may have to cut back on work to keep below the magic $250k mark. 3% may not sound a lot, but it sure sounds plenty to me!
With all of that education you should know that 3% of $1000 is 30 bucks. Give me a break. If you make $250,000 a year, that means you're making approximately $120 an hour. So your hourly rate would drop 3%, or in other words, less than $4 dollars an hour. You're going to cut back with that small of a penalty? I seriously believe Republicans are absolutely delusional on this subject.
My in-laws are from Vietnam and I've visited there myself. My mother in law told us stories of when the communists would come in and burn their record collections if they heard them listening to the wrong music. To hear Democrats compared to Communist/Socialists abroad is a farce. Most of the people making such accusations have never seen a real communist country, of which, even Vietnam is watered down today in the face of capitalism.
TheBlueWave
New member
SonRunner said:
$4/hour X 40 hours/week (adjusted, no one works only 40 anymore) X 52 weeks/year = $8320/year in additional tax burden.
My mom was not educated, meaning she had menial jobs that didn't offer health care. Partly her fault? Of course. She could have possibly found a more steady job that offers health care or found a way to head back to school, lots of people do it. My point is that she is a non-abuser of the system and refused to go on welfare (even though people encouraged her to do it). If people who don't work get MN care, why did she not get it? Well, she could have, but then me and/or my brother would not have had it (mothers sure are self-less) and she chose to make sure her kids were cared for. Of course, a dead beat father didn't help, but that's another issue entirely!
So, do we need some sort of criteria to weed out the abusers? That would cost a fortune, too!
There is no hope for anyone or any group of people without education and hard work. That's the bottom line. Should we hit education next???
TheBlueWave said:
To put this in perspective, that's out $249,600 a year. It would be the equivalent of a normal household (that's about 50k right now), paying an additional 2k. Of course Obama has already said that would not happen, and Obama would actually decrease the family making 50k by $2000 bucks or so. I'm sorry, but $4 gas is a lot harder to take at 50k annually, than it is at 250k annually. Some people need a tax break more than others. You're not going to be making $250k a year if the people you depend on to use your services can hardly afford to pay their rent. That's the facts.
Should we hit education next???
[/QUOTE] I'm not really sure about this one. I think it's the parents not caring enough more than the failed schools.
Thai
Elite Member
SonRunner said:
Did i say that I make $250k? No, my household can possibly make that much. And like BlueWave said, why would i want $8,000+ taken out of my pocket?? What on earth would make you think that i would like that???
Sorry, unlike you, i try to save money as much as the next person...i have kids to provide for. I am sorry if money is not an issue for your Democratic mind, but it is for my family...always has and always will. Maybe it is YOU who is delusional about the way hardworking Americans are managing their money! I guess that is why you want Obama so much...i can't imagine anyone doing well financially with YOUR way of thinking!! :bash:Yeah, giving tax breaks on the poor is fine by me...but why am i being punished additionally?? Hmm, maybe that is why i am not Santa Claus!
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Thai said:Did i say that I make $250k? No, my household can possibly make that much. And like BlueWave said, why would i want $8,000+ taken out of my pocket?? What on earth would make you think that i would like that???
Yeah, giving tax breaks on the poor is fine by me...but why am i being punished additionally?? Hmm, maybe that is why i am not Santa Claus!
I didn't say you were making anything, it's hypothetical. I don't know your pay situation. Relax.
Here's why it's a delusional way of thinking:
You say, "Why would I want to pay additional taxes!?" It's a fair question. Yet, for almost everyone making less than $250k (99% of the population) it will be cheaper under Obama. So if your rationale is lower tax rates, 99% of the country should be voting for Obama as their taxes will go down under him. Remember Samuel the Plumber? He thought his taxes would go up too, he was wrong.
I have 5 month old son myself. I'm a systems engineer and my wife is an interior architect. We're very fortunate, and not doing bad, and as I alluded to in a previous post, I would spend less on taxes under McCain but I don't want to hemorrhage 10 Billion dollars a month of tax payer money in Iraq when our country is doing so poor right now. The national debt is atrocious and needs to be paid down
Thai
Elite Member
SonRunner said:
So, your family income is over $250k?? If not, then why are you even commenting on how "insignificant" the 3% is for the rest of the hardworking Americans?? Why are you speaking for other people?? I don't get it. If you are extremely rich, then good for you, but that still does NOT put you in MY SHOES. Are you me? I just don't get your rationale in saying this as a generalization!
In all honesty, i put MY FAMILY over the other 99% of people out there. You are different?? I congratulate you on your generousity.
Thai
Elite Member
SonRunner said:
BTW, this is more about Joe the Plumber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wurzelbacher
His full name is Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, but he goes by "Joe." So, i don't think that anyone was lying since he apparently introduced himself as "Joe Wurzelbacher."
Thai said:So, your family income is over $250k?? If not, then why are you even commenting on how "insignificant" the 3% is for the rest of the hardworking Americans?? Why are you speaking for other people?? I don't get it. If you are extremely rich, then good for you, but that still does NOT put you in MY SHOES. Are you me? I just don't get your rationale in saying this as a generalization!
No, I make less than 250k. I will get a tax cut from both McCain and Obama. It will be more under McCain because McCains favors those that make more money than most... You need to review that chart that was posted earlier in the thread. It breaks it down by income level.
Thai said:In all honesty, i put MY FAMILY over the other 99% of people out there. You are different?? I congratulate you on your generousity.
Everyone puts their family first. The difference is my entire reason for voting for someone isn't based solely on one factor of their presidency. It's a ridiculous way to vote where there are a million other pressing issues.
I simply reversed your logic on you. The truth hurts.
Thai said:
I went to the link and found this:
Plumbing career
Wurzelbacher is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo.[7] This is the company he described to Obama as making more than $250,000 per year.[19] Wurzelbacher said that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.[1]
MSNBC reported that "Ohio business records show the company
