Matewperry
New member
:uzi: People are complaining all the time
Why are people complaining about needing an 8 speed
- Thread starter iseeu1001
- Start date
Tranny aside, it's not fair to compare thr 4runner engine to a turbo diesel. Of course the turbo diesel torque is going to walk all over it up hills. And the turbo works better at elevation (thanks to forced induction).
Twan
Senior Member
Which is exactly why having more gears would make up for the deficiency in the power department. Keep the engine closer to peak power over a greater number of gears.
Gecko
New member
The 4runner community, in particular, seems to have a very hard time with the idea of progress. While we talk like ABS is the devil, side airbags are just added weight, roll up windows or nothing, etc... the reality is all those things are proven advancements that consumers want because they have tangible benefits. You know who cars are designed for? Normal consumers. You know what this forum isn't? Normal consumers - we are enthusiasts, and that's not a group many automakers care about. With regard to progress, you can get on the train or you can be left behind and buy used cars for the rest of your life.
If you want to stick to old school, so be it.
However, the arguments about "more gears = more problems," and "an 8 or 10 speed won't be reliable" are simply invalid. Toyota has now been building an 8 speed transmission for 14 model years - it is lighter and less complex than the 6AT it replaced. It can drop several gears at a time when needed, and can cruise at 80mph at ~1,200rpm returning 30MPG. It shifts quickly and responsively with short ratios. There are no massive reported failures. Lexus also now has a 10AT with... wait for it... outstanding highway mileage, quick shifts and no widely reported failures or issues.
Go drive one such vehicle and tell me you absolutely love our 5AT. Really, any modern vehicle will due. Our transmission has two things against it: incredibly slow shifts and only 5, tall, widely spaced gears. Both will be solved with a future transmission upgrade in the 6th gen... can't wait for all the crying and complaining about unnecessary complexity... until you take a road trip and are able to net 26MPG on the highway in a 5,000lb SUV.
Is our 5AT fine? Yes. But the future is 8 and 10 gears, and Toyota builds the most reliable units in the market - far more so than Ford, GM or Dodge. Stop *****ing.
Sometimes, the 4Runner echo chamber here is quite humorous.
If you want to stick to old school, so be it.
However, the arguments about "more gears = more problems," and "an 8 or 10 speed won't be reliable" are simply invalid. Toyota has now been building an 8 speed transmission for 14 model years - it is lighter and less complex than the 6AT it replaced. It can drop several gears at a time when needed, and can cruise at 80mph at ~1,200rpm returning 30MPG. It shifts quickly and responsively with short ratios. There are no massive reported failures. Lexus also now has a 10AT with... wait for it... outstanding highway mileage, quick shifts and no widely reported failures or issues.
Go drive one such vehicle and tell me you absolutely love our 5AT. Really, any modern vehicle will due. Our transmission has two things against it: incredibly slow shifts and only 5, tall, widely spaced gears. Both will be solved with a future transmission upgrade in the 6th gen... can't wait for all the crying and complaining about unnecessary complexity... until you take a road trip and are able to net 26MPG on the highway in a 5,000lb SUV.
Is our 5AT fine? Yes. But the future is 8 and 10 gears, and Toyota builds the most reliable units in the market - far more so than Ford, GM or Dodge. Stop *****ing.
Sometimes, the 4Runner echo chamber here is quite humorous.
wcjeep
Member
This article alleges problems with 2017+ Toyota 8spd transmissions. I previously owned an unreliable 9spd equipped vehicle. The 4runner 5spd was a big positive in my buying decision. If Toyota can make a reliable mild hybrid many speed transmission vehicle that gets 25mpg that's reliable it's a win for everyone.
Toyota 8-Speed Transmission Problems Lead To Lawsuit | CarComplaints.com
Gecko
New member
You can find these types of articles for every single vehicle in production. Generally, this is a situation where Toyota releases a software flash or something similar, but not a true “reliability” issue. Toyota transmissions also have the learning logic that adapts to your driving style, so while that learning process is happening, habits like hesitating or up/downshifting can be especially pronounce - but generally improve.
I think you overlook the fact that Toyota overbuilds and undertunes to maximize reliability. I'm fine with less power, and less gears. A few mpg isn't as important to me with a BOF SUV as long term reliability. If MPG's are what you want, get a Highlander or Highlander Hybrid. If you want more power, buy a Diesel HD P/U. If you want speed, get a camaro. None of those are what the 4R was designed for.
Gecko
New member
Of course they do - and now, they're doing it with 8- and 10-speed automatics, which are quickly becoming the standard.
The 4Runner was not built to some "must endure the third world" standard of reliability: the 5th gen is a heavy refresh of the 4th gen with the same platform and engine, and all of that work happened ~2006-2008. So around that time, 5ATs were still fine and very common. Toyota has neglected to invest any money in the 4Runner's powertrain since that time because it continues to sell regardless... so, who can blame them?
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Jernik
New member
What kind of evil communist are you? BY GOD, I'M AN AMERICAN!! I demand my SUV'S have the capability to haul my entire family and all our Wal Mart crap anywhere and everywhere at 200 mph, getting no less than 85 mpg, while the interior pampers us all like a cushy upscale lounge! Maybe the communists will settle for buying multiple cars for multiple purposes, BUT NOT ME!
'MURICA!! :usa2::rockon::madgrin:
--kindly note the sarcasm--
:roll::laugh::cheers:
Absolutely. I think most people on here are way younger than me (66) and did not grow up driving in the era of absolute shitboxes, like the ‘84 S-10 Blazer that was my misfortune to have purchased new. Climb out of any 4Runner, especially the 5th gen, and into any 1980’s domestic garbage, and you’ll realize just how good these newer 4runners are.
Gecko
New member
Only problem is that "1980s domestic garbage" isn't the competitive set for the 5th gen 4Runner.
While I understand your point, lots of people here use this logic to say "WELL my 5th gen is better than my 3rd gen, so therefore the 5th gen is the best SUV ever," or "Because my 5th gen is faster than a Pontiac Fiero, it's fast enough and anyone else who wants something faster should just buy a Ferrari," or "Because my 5th gen is more comfortable than a horse drawn carriage, it's just fine and anyone else who complains about the seats is a drama queen," and those are moot, silly comparisons.
Nobody is saying the 5th gen 4Runner isn't a great vehicle - it definitely is. But considering progress, technology and advancing competition, an 8- or 10-speed automatic in the 6th gen will be a welcome addition. Our 5-speed unit is reliable and does the job just fine, but yes, it is time for an upgrade.
While I understand your point, lots of people here use this logic to say "WELL my 5th gen is better than my 3rd gen, so therefore the 5th gen is the best SUV ever," or "Because my 5th gen is faster than a Pontiac Fiero, it's fast enough and anyone else who wants something faster should just buy a Ferrari," or "Because my 5th gen is more comfortable than a horse drawn carriage, it's just fine and anyone else who complains about the seats is a drama queen," and those are moot, silly comparisons.
Nobody is saying the 5th gen 4Runner isn't a great vehicle - it definitely is. But considering progress, technology and advancing competition, an 8- or 10-speed automatic in the 6th gen will be a welcome addition. Our 5-speed unit is reliable and does the job just fine, but yes, it is time for an upgrade.
I am a warranty inspector by trade. If you guys saw the failure rate of the Ford, GM, and Dodge 8 and 10 speeds you would like your 5 speed a lot better. The only really dependable light duty trans with more speeds is the Ford Torque Shift 6. The failure rate on these is very low.
By the way the failure rate on the Toyota and Nissan 5 speeds is near zero from internal causes. I would have to see a very well built 10 speed before I would buy one in a Toyota. I can basically drive any vehicle that I want ( I now own 8 or 9) and my daily driver is a 4R TRD Pro.
rd
By the way the failure rate on the Toyota and Nissan 5 speeds is near zero from internal causes. I would have to see a very well built 10 speed before I would buy one in a Toyota. I can basically drive any vehicle that I want ( I now own 8 or 9) and my daily driver is a 4R TRD Pro.
rd
Gamma Ray
Banned
If someone wants to buy me a Ferrari, I'll start complaining about the 5 speed in the 4Runner just to stop in exchange for a Ferrari! F355 Challenge version with the roll cage and spoiler. Probably not street legal, but I'll take it to a track. Please and thank you!
элЕктпоникА55
New member
I could use an extra gear or two. I sometimes drive 850 miles on the highway, and only having 5 gears is not the best. What we really want is a manual transmission option. Not having that option is the sole reason I didn't even consider buying a new 4runner.
I guess it depends on how good the 6 or 8 speed transmission actually is. I’d love another gear or two if the driving experience was worth it.
Was given a new Rav4 to drive while my 5th gen was in the shop. Hated the constant up and down shifting of that tranny and couldn't wait to get my 4R back.
My opinion is that Toyota is working on the higher number of gears, and when the dependability of the 5speed AT is reached with the newer transmissions, we'll start seeing it in the 4Runner and not before.
Why would Toyota mess with the sterling reputation of the 4Runner by putting a new and unreliable (or untested) transmission into it?
Jetboy
New member
The 6AT is literally the same transmission we have now. Yours already has the 6th gear internally. It just doesn't shift into 6th. So I'd say the 6 speed would be almost exactly the same except you'd use lower diff ratios and have a lower first gear.
The 8at is also pretty solid. The problem in the Rav you drove isn't the transmission. It's a combination of the tuning and the engine. Having only 200hp in a 3600lb SUV will require a fair bit of shifting. But it shouldn't be noticeable when it shifts. I think the real issue is the engine. That 2.5L is about as smooth as a washing machine full of rocks. The same transmission with a better engine is great. The RX or IS models are smooth and shifts are fast and seemless. The last Ram 1500 I drove was fantastic with the 8AT. Towed a big trailer like a dream. Always had the right gear and shifts were almost imperceptible most of the time.
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3kushn
Member
I've only driven a 4Runner for 1500 miles (3.5weeks), so this is simply a 1st impression.
First of all I use Cruise Control all the time. Modern CC also maintains speeds when going downhill. With the 4R the downshift revs up the RPM's which I assume eats more fuel. Sometimes it feels like the brakes are being applied. If the trans had more gears, the uptick would be less.
The other situation I deal with nearly daily is driving down a steep gravel roads @ 5mph. I prefer using the transmission rather than the brakes. 1st gear seems too slow and 2nd gear isn't enough to hold speed down.
Moral of the story is IMO more gears would give me finer tuning for my situation.
All in all I Love this new truck. There's only 2 or 3 things I didn't realize I was getting into. None of them would have been deal killers. Just quirky things. Opening the door before shutting down causes the chime to go off and chiming every time I close a door with engine running. Chiming if my sunroof is open on shutdown. Some of this stuff is like a nagging wife. Thankfully I can keep the lane change warning without signal chime turned off, rather than setting it every time.
Here's my biggest complaint: I can't find dog boxes narrower than 18" but still 30"long. Every inch counts hauling 2 dogs + gear everyday.
