I have an example in a different area: I just visited some friends in France at Six Fours De Plage and they have a Nissan Patrol on BFG 31" tires. You would not believe the number of governmental regulatory agencies that they had to navigate to get those "huge American monster truck tires" imported and installed on their patrol. They are actually not supposed to drive it on the road in Europe because it is 4" higher than stock. I believe in the EU there is a law that states: "no part of any car may be modified in any way from its factory equipped components" The number of modified 4x4 trucks I saw in Europe on the road was exactly 0.
Why don't we ever see LR Discovery's modded out?
- Thread starter el_kab0ng
- Start date
I have an example in a different area: I just visited some friends in France at Six Fours De Plage and they have a Nissan Patrol on BFG 31" tires. You would not believe the number of governmental regulatory agencies that they had to navigate to get those "huge American monster truck tires" imported and installed on their patrol. They are actually not supposed to drive it on the road in Europe because it is 4" higher than stock. I believe in the EU there is a law that states: "no part of any car may be modified in any way from its factory equipped components" The number of modified 4x4 trucks I saw in Europe on the road was exactly 0.
Sean K.
New member
While the EU is a loose confederation, it is obviously not one country.
A cursory search would have given you plenty of information on the differences in laws across Europe regarding vehicle modification.
http://www.eur.army.mil/news/2009/2009-04-23-02_Vehicle_modifications.pdf
TUV in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_Überwachungsverein#T.C3.9CV_Rheinland
Article on EU proposal to severely restrict modification from back in 2012....but it hasn't passed....yet anyway.
Millions of modified and classic cars could be banned from the roads as meddling European Union try to shake-up MOT rules | Daily Mail Online
Post on Spain's "draconian" laws regarding mods.
https://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-16363.aspx
Quote from German law (google translation): (8) Modifications: Any modifications changing the vehicle body style (as to engine not being covered), altered bumpers which are not to manufacturers specifications, missing or damaged running boards, or tires protruding beyond the fender wells are not allowed. Dark tinted glass on the front driver's and passengers doors or on the front windshield that comes down from the top of the windshield more than 4 inches that makes it impossible to see the driver and occupants is prohibited by German law.
UK specific:
https://www.keithmichaels.co.uk/mod...a-guide-to-legal-car-modifications-in-the-uk/
I could go on...but whatever. Believe whatever you like. Keep in mind in America, states also have stupid mod restrictions.....lift laws in MA come to mind...but there are others.
In the US...there are only 17 states that still have safety inspections....and many are not even annual. So roughly 2/3rds of US states don't require them anymore. It's amazing to me to think that anyone would put so much stock in the state inspection service to ensure that "unsafe" vehicles are not actually on the road. I've lived in states with mandatory safety inspections....and if it's a lower income state.....there's going to be a lot of questionable "junkers" on the road; more so in my experience than in states with no safety inspection whatsoever.
BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=144462]Sean K.[/MENTION]
Wait you mean to tell me the EU isn't Germany's most successful attempt to take over Europe?
Wait you mean to tell me the EU isn't Germany's most successful attempt to take over Europe?
TorqueOfTheDevil
Member
Indeed, However as the OP said "I've never seen the English mod the crap out of their LRs" and you reply that I quoted was a few posts down, stating "European laws", hence my comment.
Sean K.
New member
I'm very careful with my wording.....I said exactly what I meant.
Is the UK part of Europe or not? I was making a broad generalization about European safety regulations regarding modification compared to here. I am fully aware that I am the one who brought all of Europe into the discussion. I wasn't aware it was verboten.
This is a pic of my street legal rock buggy. Notice the tag behind the passenger compartment.
Think that would be likely to happen in Europe? I'm skeptical....but I won't rule it out of the realm of possibility.
TorqueOfTheDevil
Member
I terms of belonging to a continent, yes the UK is in Europe, but there is a subtle difference between being geographically classed as Europe, and being part of Continental Europe, and being part of the European Union.
In Terms of regulation, general motoring rules are separate in each country, although new vehicle type laws are governed by the EU, which we'll not be part of very soon.
That vehicle would not be legal in the UK as the wheels poke out (as mentioned earlier) it also doesn't look like it has indicators or possible a rear number plate light.
However if it was first registered (or a bit of the chassis that carried vehicle ID from which it takes the vehicle identity) before as certain date it probably would be legal, as old cars were allowed to have exposed wheels (like 30s and before...) and different lighting requirements. Or if you class it as an agricultural vehicle. (There are creative ways to bypass most laws, that are still technically legal, like the guy that registered a Zonda as a taxi to get around paying certain taxes for driving in London :biggrin2
I doubt very much it'd be legal in Germany, out there every modification has to be "registered" and certified. that said it doesn't stop them, I used to live there, and have done many trips of the Nurburgring, and there are all sorts of highly modified vehicles there, that are road registered on German (and other European plates)
As for places like Greece who knows, they seem to be a law unto themselves, but that is still "Europe" and I get a suspicion that places like Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania etc are a lot more accommodating, which are also "Europe". (I saw some very interesting vehicles in Poland and Croatia last year that certainly wouldn't be legal in the UK)
So my point still stands,
"European safety regulations are quite different than in the US. Their nanny state would never allow most of the things that we do here unless it was to be an "off road only" vehicle."
Is a very broad term, in in the case of previously registered vehicles, as accurate as saying "Northern Hemisphere safety rules". Also referring to all of Europe with a sweeping "Their Nanny state" implies that it is all one state, which it is not. "...Would never allow..." could be seen to imply that it is governed by one set of rules.
As the original post was about the Landrovers in the UK, and you stated that UK vehicle laws are solely covered by "European safety regulations" My point of "Are you comparing all of Europe as one country with one set of laws?" is still totally just. The fact that you then decided to google different European local laws (The UK one was from a commercially run vehicle insurance site :biggrin2 didn't really change this from my perspective.
In Terms of regulation, general motoring rules are separate in each country, although new vehicle type laws are governed by the EU, which we'll not be part of very soon.
That vehicle would not be legal in the UK as the wheels poke out (as mentioned earlier) it also doesn't look like it has indicators or possible a rear number plate light.
However if it was first registered (or a bit of the chassis that carried vehicle ID from which it takes the vehicle identity) before as certain date it probably would be legal, as old cars were allowed to have exposed wheels (like 30s and before...) and different lighting requirements. Or if you class it as an agricultural vehicle. (There are creative ways to bypass most laws, that are still technically legal, like the guy that registered a Zonda as a taxi to get around paying certain taxes for driving in London :biggrin2
I doubt very much it'd be legal in Germany, out there every modification has to be "registered" and certified. that said it doesn't stop them, I used to live there, and have done many trips of the Nurburgring, and there are all sorts of highly modified vehicles there, that are road registered on German (and other European plates)
As for places like Greece who knows, they seem to be a law unto themselves, but that is still "Europe" and I get a suspicion that places like Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania etc are a lot more accommodating, which are also "Europe". (I saw some very interesting vehicles in Poland and Croatia last year that certainly wouldn't be legal in the UK)
So my point still stands,
"European safety regulations are quite different than in the US. Their nanny state would never allow most of the things that we do here unless it was to be an "off road only" vehicle."
Is a very broad term, in in the case of previously registered vehicles, as accurate as saying "Northern Hemisphere safety rules". Also referring to all of Europe with a sweeping "Their Nanny state" implies that it is all one state, which it is not. "...Would never allow..." could be seen to imply that it is governed by one set of rules.
As the original post was about the Landrovers in the UK, and you stated that UK vehicle laws are solely covered by "European safety regulations" My point of "Are you comparing all of Europe as one country with one set of laws?" is still totally just. The fact that you then decided to google different European local laws (The UK one was from a commercially run vehicle insurance site :biggrin2
didn't really change this from my perspective.
Sean K.
New member
I terms of belonging to a continent, yes the UK is in Europe, but there is a subtle difference between being geographically classed as Europe, and being part of Continental Europe, and being part of the European Union.
In Terms of regulation, general motoring rules are separate in each country, although new vehicle type laws are governed by the EU, which we'll not be part of very soon.
That vehicle would not be legal in the UK as the wheels poke out (as mentioned earlier) it also doesn't look like it has indicators or possible a rear number plate light.
However if it was first registered (or a bit of the chassis that carried vehicle ID from which it takes the vehicle identity) before as certain date it probably would be legal, as old cars were allowed to have exposed wheels (like 30s and before...) and different lighting requirements. Or if you class it as an agricultural vehicle. (There are creative ways to bypass most laws, that are still technically legal, like the guy that registered a Zonda as a taxi to get around paying certain taxes for driving in London :biggrin2
I doubt very much it'd be legal in Germany, out there every modification has to be "registered" and certified. that said it doesn't stop them, I used to live there, and have done many trips of the Nurburgring, and there are all sorts of highly modified vehicles there, that are road registered on German (and other European plates)
As for places like Greece who knows, they seem to be a law unto themselves, but that is still "Europe" and I get a suspicion that places like Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania etc are a lot more accommodating, which are also "Europe". (I saw some very interesting vehicles in Poland and Croatia last year that certainly wouldn't be legal in the UK)
So my point still stands,
"European safety regulations are quite different than in the US. Their nanny state would never allow most of the things that we do here unless it was to be an "off road only" vehicle."
Is a very broad term, in in the case of previously registered vehicles, as accurate as saying "Northern Hemisphere safety rules". Also referring to all of Europe with a sweeping "Their Nanny state" implies that it is all one state, which it is not. "...Would never allow..." could be seen to imply that it is governed by one set of rules.
As the original post was about the Landrovers in the UK, and you stated that UK vehicle laws are solely covered by "European safety regulations" My point of "Are you comparing all of Europe as one country with one set of laws?" is still totally just. The fact that you then decided to google different European local laws (The UK one was from a commercially run vehicle insurance site :biggrin2
And my point still stands.
You're splitting hairs about your geographic location....but whatever.
You just admitted my street legal, completely new fabricated frame, buggy built on a "Special Construction" title in 2007 would not be legal in the UK (and probably not in many other states in the EU either). Nor would most of the specialized vehicles I've built primarily for offroad use, but that were still street legal in the US.
Surely you also realize that what I said is still factually correct.
European safety regulations ARE quite a bit different than in the US. And you certainly have even more of "nanny state" than we do....but feel free to disagree on that point.
You inferred I meant all states in Europe were the same. Implications are not statements. You read far more into what I wrote than was there....I simply meant that you don't see the typical massive modification of factory vehicles in Europe that you do in the US and part of that is due to the legal atmosphere of those countries.
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TorqueOfTheDevil
Member
*yawn*
Factually neither of us are incorrect.
You post did imply exactly what I said it implied, but of course implication is not a measurable fact, cannot be "proven" and therefore probably doesn't interest you.
We'll not agree, the fact that you still think that my point is about physical location proves that you do not and possibly cannot understand my point. I suspect you are one of these people that is "always right", and I for one certainly can't be bothered wasting further time feeding your need to prove that you are correct.
Also, Landrovers suck.
Factually neither of us are incorrect.
You post did imply exactly what I said it implied, but of course implication is not a measurable fact, cannot be "proven" and therefore probably doesn't interest you.
We'll not agree, the fact that you still think that my point is about physical location proves that you do not and possibly cannot understand my point. I suspect you are one of these people that is "always right", and I for one certainly can't be bothered wasting further time feeding your need to prove that you are correct.
Also, Landrovers suck.
Sean K.
New member
*yawn*
Factually neither of us are incorrect.
You post did imply exactly what I said it implied, but of course implication is not a measurable fact, cannot be "proven" and therefore probably doesn't interest you.
We'll not agree, the fact that you still think that my point is about physical location proves that you do not and possibly cannot understand my point. I suspect you are one of these people that is "always right", and I for one certainly can't be bothered wasting further time feeding your need to prove that you are correct.
Also, Landrovers suck.
No, you misinterpreted and read meaning into a comment that did not exist.
For someone so fixated on the location the OP was talking about (and you're the one insisting I must've meant only the UK, when I clearly did not and have explained my reasoning) ....you haven't had much to say on why it is you don't see anywhere near the number of modded vehicles you do in the US other than that "Discos" and now apparently all "Land Rovers suck". I'm no fan of LR either, JFYI.
It appears your nose is out of joint b/c you feel I've somehow slighted the UK or you personally when you've obviously done an engine swap and other mods in your homeland. In short, you imagine an "implied" insult when there was none....(other than the obvious "nanny state" comment....of which the US populace is also a victim). I have nothing against you personally, your vehicle mods or the UK in particular.
My analysis was incomplete when I talked about European safety regulations....I had no idea that not only were you the sole arbitrator of what can be discussed in a thread, but that I needed to be so much more verbose about the full scope of my reasoning on why Europe (and the UK) have fewer modded vehicles than the US....but I'm more than happy to briefly clarify so I can possibly assuage your obvious dislike for me and my viewpoint.
That said, not only are safety regulations in the UK and Europe vastly different than in the US....there's enforcement. As you said....it depends on where you live as to what gets enforced. My buggy would never get registered street legal in New York as it sits now for example. That's just one element of why you see fewer modded rigs in Europe (and I'm going to drop UK specifically....b/c I'm still talking in generalities as I have been from the start).
You see fewer modded rigs b/c there are fewer legal places to wheel.
Parts are more expensive and have to be shipped into the country often times increasing cost even more.
Some mods in some European countries require an engineer to sign off on it before it will be deemed road worthy.
Outside of competitions, there are much fewer difficult "trails" in most of Europe that require the level of modification necessary in the US to complete them without breakage.
There are others....but hopefully you get the point.
Regardless of whether or not you continue in this thread....I wish you the best and apologize for unintentionally offending you.
Take care,
Sean
tommytrail
New member
good question
