Winter gas

WXman

WXman

New member
In most states, gasoline is blended differently from October - April. The winter blend has more butane or something in it, and it causes the fuel to have a different burn rate and energy content. So it's pretty common for vehicles to get lower MPGs during the cold months.

However, my 4R seems to have dropped off a cliff. I was getting 16-17 consistently with every tank. As of last week, I was in the 16.8 range. Filled up this week and I'm down to 14.5. This is with the same driving routine and driving style as always. Holy crap. 2 MPGs lost to winterized fuel? That's insane.

Is it because of the way these engines are tuned? Would 93 octane be better? I've been running 87 (occasionally 89) in it up until now. I just can't believe how bad it dropped. :wow:
 
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it may have just been a bad tank.

but yes, I always notice worse mileage in the winter. some of it is due to the fuel chemistry. you also have to take in account the cooler temps, you'll be running richer for longer.
 
nevada said:
it may have just been a bad tank.

but yes, I always notice worse mileage in the winter. some of it is due to the fuel chemistry. you also have to take in account the cooler temps, you'll be running richer for longer.
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agreed. Colder temps major contributor to decreased mileage.
 
In new england, losing 2 MPG due to winter blend is not unreasonable. Depends on where you live of course, but doesn't seem too far off the mark to me.

I heard 93 octane is still "pure" even during the winter - does not have the bs additives. You may just want to suck it up and pump 93 and see if you get the 2 MPG back, may even pay for itself.
 
Well I guess I'll see what happens on the next tank. I'm glad we don't have E10 fuel here. Our neighbor to the south (TN) has nothing but E10 and from what I understand it's almost impossible to find a station that sells regular unleaded anymore. That would SUCK.

Cold weather does certainly play a part. More friction upon startup and more time spent with the engine in closed loop before the t-stat opens up. I just wish they'd leave the fuel alone. Gas doesn't gel as fast as diesel in cold weather.
 
You don't have E10 where you are? I thought it was federally mandated??? I'm jealous! Wait til they (EPA) pushes E15............. urrghhhh, don't get me started on that.

Winter blends: 2 mpg loss sounds about right. Our rigs are made for 87 and you do gain a HAIR more power with the higher stuff, but I wouldn't expect 93 (or 91) do get you better economy. Stick with TopTier Gas and DON'T get gas from Sam's Club or Costco or any economy brand gas. The detergents (lack of) they use are garbage. I've noticed better MPGs using, say, Shell gas compared to Costco gas. Yes, you save a bit (maybe $0.10-0.15), but you're savings are wiped away with the hit in MPG you take. That is my experience anyway......
 
All gas comes from a 'terminal' where the tank trucks load up. Visit one and see all your favorite brands loading up from the same spigot.

The gasoline arrived at the terminal by pipeline or train. May have 5% of anything in it if it is regular. Nothing weird (like diesel, or transmix) if it is premium. Both grades can have a lot of butane in them and butane is used in places where it is cheaper than gasoline. A completely legal way to water-down the gasoline. Butane is made from natural gas and there's lots of it available in some places due to fracking.

The Ethanol gets added at the terminal along with a half gallon of the magic juice/detergent the truck driver adds. That makes it into Shell "V-Power" or something else. Ethanol is not used in pipelines since it scrubs all the trash off the inside of the pipelines and also messes with the seals of the valves and other pipeline equipment.

Sorta like Budweiser is beechwood-aged. They throw a wood chip in the 10,000 gal tank of beer.

Buy the cheapest gas you can get and every 6 months use an $8 pint of Chevron Techron.
 
Atlanta_man said:
All gas comes from a 'terminal' where the tank trucks load up. Visit one and see all your favorite brands loading up from the same spigot.

The gasoline arrived at the terminal by pipeline or train. May have 5% of anything in it if it is regular. Nothing weird (like diesel, or transmix) if it is premium. Both grades can have a lot of butane in them and butane is used in places where it is cheaper than gasoline. A completely legal way to water-down the gasoline. Butane is made from natural gas and there's lots of it available in some places due to fracking.

The Ethanol gets added at the terminal along with a half gallon of the magic juice/detergent the truck driver adds. That makes it into Shell "V-Power" or something else. Ethanol is not used in pipelines since it scrubs all the trash off the inside of the pipelines and also messes with the seals of the valves and other pipeline equipment.

Sorta like Budweiser is beechwood-aged. They throw a wood chip in the 10,000 gal tank of beer.

Buy the cheapest gas you can get and every 6 months use an $8 pint of Chevron Techron.
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This is consistent with what I have read over the years. "Transmix" usually degrades the quality of gas and MPG, as well as butane/winter blend. If anything, this supports the theory of spending the extra 30 cents a gallon to get premium (which is not affected by transmix or winter blend).

The way I look at it, even a 1 MPG gain over an entire tankful of gas (23 gallons), more or less pays for the extra 30 cents per gallon. If it costs the same, why pay the extra for premium? With premium, the car just *feels* like it runs smoother and less stressed. Plus if you are towing, I was told you want to get the gas to do some of the work for you.
 
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I'm in the business of refined products logistics. 25 years so far.

The good news is mistakes happen every couple of months that just barely contaminates a premium storage tank (50,000-150,000 gal is common) and then we have to downgrade the tank to regular.

Lots of folks buying regular are really getting premium for a week or two at a time depending on the other variables of where they buy gas and how often it turns over.

We are very careful with kerosene (jet fuel) and low sulfur diesel in terms of their purity which means some of it winds up as transmix in regular gas.
 
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Here we have ~10% Ethanol fuel year around. I consistently get mid 15mpg, so your numbers sounds about right. When i was using Pure Gas it was 17+mpg.

Unfortunately it isn't worth it for me to full up with ethanol free fuel due to cost. At the regular pump here Pure gas 90 oct is ~$4.40/gal. I still pay $5.25/gal for 93 oct at the marina for my boat. So needless to say the 4Runner gets 87 oct ethanol fuel for $3.15/gal.
 
The EPA doesn't mandate ethanol, it does however control the regulation of the clear air act. If your are is in a dirty place, with bad air, the EPA can fine your region at various levels. It is usually the State or County that determines weather ethanol is to be mandated, in a effort to reduce harmful emissions and come under the EPA mandated emission levels to reduce or eliminate the fine.


In extreme cases, the EPA can take a more active control, but for most regions of the nation it is the local governments that are determining what is occurring.

Second, if you live close to the corn fields in the US; your getting ethanol because it is simply easier and cheaper to get.

Short story, there is no federal law mandating nationwide use of ethanol gasoline, nor the level. Whether your region has it or mandates it is complex and almost always something your local government has instituted or simply a product of economics. The EPA did mandate that gross producers use X amount of ethanol that year, which is probably why ethanol has even made it nationwide.
 
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In extreme cases, the EPA can take a more active control, but for most regions of the nation it is the local governments that are determining what is occurring.
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The EPA mandated oxygenator in gas in some areas of the country. Here in NH ....our local "Live Free Or Die" attitude does NOT want the additives. But we are MANDATED to have them. We use to have MTBE..but that stuff is very nasty and doesn't evaporate or breakdown like Ethanol does. There have been many wells that had to add bubblers to filter out the MTBE because of the leaking gas tanks from the gas station 2 miles away. NH now uses Ethanol all year round.
 
15% Ethanol will start causing issues in older cars if I remember right. The Ethanol actually munches up fuel lines and seals, hence why "Flex Fuel" Engines are different than regular engines.
 
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