Winter vs. All Season - Opinions

[ndcent]

Lookup adhesion and look at what temperature 4season tires start degrading and you will realize that people who value their life when living in cold temperatures including snow and ice will have no problem dishing out 1k on snow tires.

Cheers

your wit, or rather lack thereof is appreciated. consider me better educated now as to the folks reasoning behind snow tires on their 4runners.

 

[gbc]

your wit, or rather lack thereof is appreciated. consider me better educated now as to the folks reasoning behind snow tires on their 4runners.

My wit, or rather lack of, has nothing to do with the facts that you might interpret as opinions. My statement was intended to be delivered as impersonal factual and educational.

I started by guiding your research with the key word adhesion and how weather affects 4 season tires. The lack of detail might of hindered good intention with a bad one. I usually like to keep things short and sweet.

Cheers

 

[ndcent]

My wit, or rather lack of, has nothing to do with the facts that you might interpret as opinions. My statement was intended to be delivered as impersonal factual and educational.

I started by guiding your research with the key word adhesion and how weather affects 4 season tires. The lack of detail might of hindered good intention with a bad one. I usually like to keep things short and sweet.

Cheers

you sound like a fun guy.

 

[gbc]

you sound like a fun guy.

thanks, you don't!

Cheers

 

[the great him]

you all need some Jesus in your life(s)... or maybe some vitamin D...

 

[gbc]

Got a link for that? Around here it doesn't get that cold. We get a lot of snow and my all season radials have never let me down. I don't think I've used chains on a 4x4 and have never had a problem with not getting where I am going. My 4Runners have always made it when I asked them to. Drop it in 4wd and go....

There is tons of information, but good ones are difficult to locate sometimes..

Here is some links you can have a look at:

Winter Driving - Be Prepared, Be Safe!

All-Season vs. Winter / Snow Tires

 

[BrianSD_42]

What about BFG AT/S I have used them in the snow and they are just fine.

 

[4ganger]

So maybe this is what you are referring to: Tire Myths...and Reality - Car Care - Motor Trend

"Myth: All-season tires are so good that winter tires are never needed.
Fact: In some parts of the country, this may be true, but if you live in the northernmost states or in Canada, the traction provided by winter tires can't be beat. Winter tires reign supreme in rural areas where snow remains on the road for days. They provide 25-percent-improved traction in deep snow over all-season tires. Metal-studded tires deliver up to 40 percent greater traction on hard-packed snow and ice over all-season tires, but many locales have restrictions regarding the use of studs."

Since I live in the mountain west and not north east or Canada,

and since it rarely stays below freezing for more than a day or two ice is not really that much of a concern. Snow covered and deep snow is a concern though. I find it hard or next to impossible to believe that a "winter" tire will have 25% more grip that an extreme weather all season radial. Perhaps more than a passenger car all season tire but vs. a truck tire? I'd like to see a study on that.

I do make sure my tires say M+S and or have this symbol:

"In the United States and Canada, a "snowflake on a mountain" symbol means that the tire has exceeded the industry requirement for a reference (non-snow) tire."

 

[4ganger]

There is tons of information, but good ones are difficult to locate sometimes..

Here is some links you can have a look at:

Winter Driving - Be Prepared, Be Safe!

All-Season vs. Winter / Snow Tires

Well, I don't drive a passenger car for a reason. If you have a 4x4 comparison of winter tires vs. M+S rated all season tires I'd love to read it.

That said the tires I get are AT tires with a M+S rating and if I can find the mountain and snowflake symbol that much the better.

See here: HowStuffWorks "How Tires Work"

 

[the great him]

Well, I don't drive a passenger car for a reason. If you have a 4x4 comparison of winter tires vs. M+S rated all season tires I'd love to read it.

That said the tires I get are AT tires with a M+S rating and if I can find the mountain and snowflake symbol that much the better.

See here: HowStuffWorks "How Tires Work"

go to tire rack, they have done the comparison with BMW X5s, probably one of the most advanced and sophisticated awd systems out there as far as awd is concerned. sure they do ok in snow and ice with all season tires, but when they are equipped with snow tires they are amazing with what they can do and where they can go and get through.

i love my 4runner, but an X5 will hands down walk all over anyones 4runner on snowy/ice roads, i dont care what you say, ive seen it and been around both, worked on both and know what both are capable of. now with that being said, no i do not own an X5(nor do i think i ever will) they are not the best SUV for me, nor do i think they are the best SUV on the market, but they are a good one. most of our 4runners will walk all over an X5 off the road and on back trails though, and thats what i care about. -not trying to make a sales plug for the X5 or BMW(yes i used to work for BMW, but no longer do)-

 

[the great him]

What about BFG AT/S I have used them in the snow and they are just fine.

do you mean the BFG A/T KO's or the GOODYEAR AT/S ?

i listed both of those tires a few posts earlier and recomended both of them, even though i do not like the BFGs(its a personal thing).

 

[4ganger]

go to tire rack, they have done the comparison with BMW X5s, probably one of the most advanced and sophisticated awd systems out there as far as awd is concerned. sure they do ok in snow and ice with all season tires, but when they are equipped with snow tires they are amazing with what they can do and where they can go and get through.

Funny you should mention that. Before I got my 3rd gen I had a 2005 X5. It was as you say an absolutely amazing car on snow and ice. Before the X5 I had a 4th gen 4Runner and that car was also very veyr good on snow. Not quite as good as the X5 but pretty darn close on road. Off road the 3rd gen is better than both the 4th gen or the X5. On road snow and Ice I'd take the X5 or the 4th gen without a worry.

Now re: the tires - the X5 was unstoppable on snow or ice. It simply kept going. I had the Pirelli Scorpion ATR tires on it - an all terrain tire. Before that I had the Michelin MXV4's and a set of Bridgeston Dueller HL Alenza. The Michelin was better than teh Dueller HL Alenza and the Pirelli was far better than either.

I am not saying that snow tires not ever needed. All I am saying is if you don't wan to go through the expense of owning two sets (one for winter and one for summer) than a good all season radial that is M+S rated will get you to your destination if the road is open and you have reasonable skills driving in snow.

If you have no skills driving in snow then a winter tire will get you there much safter than a non-winter tire.

 

[the great him]

Funny you should mention that. Before I got my 3rd gen I had a 2005 X5. It was as you say an absolutely amazing car on snow and ice. Before the X5 I had a 4th gen 4Runner and that car was also very veyr good on snow. Not quite as good as the X5 but pretty darn close on road. Off road the 3rd gen is better than both the 4th gen or the X5. On road snow and Ice I'd take the X5 or the 4th gen without a worry.

Now re: the tires - the X5 was unstoppable on snow or ice. It simply kept going. I had the Pirelli Scorpion ATR tires on it - an all terrain tire. Before that I had the Michelin MXV4's and a set of Bridgeston Dueller HL Alenza. The Michelin was better than teh Dueller HL Alenza and the Pirelli was far better than either.

I am not saying that snow tires not ever needed. All I am saying is if you don't wan to go through the expense of owning two sets (one for winter and one for summer) than a good all season radial that is M+S rated will get you to your destination if the road is open and you have reasonable skills driving in snow.

If you have no skills driving in snow then a winter tire will get you there much safter than a non-winter tire.

i think i have found the area of confusion for some. you are stating all season tires, and i think you mean all terrain, there is a BIG difference. go to a local tire shop and just look at any tire there, they will all say M+S rated (unless they are a high performance summer sport tire). an all season tire is about useless as boobs on a nun. all terrain tires on the other hand have some use in inclement weather.

 

[4ganger]

Fair enough. All terrains work well enough for my needs. Highway all season maybe not enough.

 

[ryankmasuda]

Get good all terrains and air them down slightly and drive accordingly to the current weather conditions at hand.

 

[JohnsD90]

Unless you don't have much treads left, you the driver will likely be the reason you don't make it home after going out in snowstorms. Last winter i went out on my Cooper ATR's with less than 40% tread left in multiple 18"+ snow storms with no major issues, i would drive in 2 until i deemed it unsafe, brake check every so often, never above 25mph, and i would regularly kick the ass out and recover, not too mention the practice donuts i would do in the parking lots, which are fun but i mainly did them to get a better sense of control for the truck. I'm not too cocky about my driving, but i do feel winter driving is one of my stronger points, as long as i keep my self in check that i will know how to recover the slide that can happen at any point in time. I downshift to slow down, i don't brake unless its necessary as ABS blows and has almost wrecked my truck. Obviously tires designed to specifically drive in snow are going to be the best for driving in snow, but me personally i feel a decent set of AT's or All-seasons will get me through the brutal storms of new england just fine. If i lose traction and crash, it will be because i was a dumbass and drove too fast for conditions, not because i didn't have a tire that had a snowflake on the side. So ill keep the extra $600 for something more important.

 

[mvinsable]

Thanks very much everyone for all the feedback... I have some mixed reviews/ideas on everything too. It all depends on the situation, driver, ect.... Mainly, I know that these mud terrains I have now suck on ice/packed snow. I can go as slow as 10 mph and slowly stop at a stop sign and they will slide like skies (no, I am not slamming on the brakes or doing anything stupid - I have lived in snow country all my life)... So, I am assuming a real, decent, set of tires would be wayyy better.
My main debate is that the winters haven't been too hard here last few years and I don't drive it a whole lot. So, I didn't wanna invest into a winter tire if I could find a good all-terrain tire that would be better than the mud terrains and still work year around. So, I am in a debate between Goodyear SilentArmour vs. Goodyear Duratracs?

 

[4ganger]

Customer Survey Data – Dura Track vs. Silent Armor
Would Buy Again? Probably - 8.2 7.7
Hydroplaning Resistance 8.7 8.6
Wet Traction 8.7 8.7
Cornering Stability 7.7 8.4
Dry Traction 9.1 9.1
Steering Response 7.8 8.4
Light Snow Traction 9.3 8.8
Deep Snow Traction 9.3 8.6
Ice Traction 8.2 7.9
Ride Comfort 8.4 8.4
Noise Comfort 7.8 8.3
Treadwear 8.2 8.2

They look to be about the same price. All things being equal I'd say you can't go wrong with either. The duratracks look like the ratings are a little better for snow but they area also a little louder.

Sort of a toss up and depends on the look you want, etc.

 

[binhsterbinh]

I have a set of new Firestone Destination All Terrains in 265/75/16 for non winter driving. They are terrific on dry pavement and in deep rain guttered highways. Haven't slipped much at all. Survey Results on Tirerack place them number 1 in the AT category. They even score high marks in light snow-8.8, deep snow-8.6, and ice - 7.8. For the casual driver that only encounters few snow storms a year and above freezing temperatures most the year, I'd say stick with a good All Terrain year round as long as the tread is good. Just realize their limited adhesion limits when the temperature goes down and rubber gets hard. They won't stop or steering nearly as well as a winter tire in snow/ice, but they'll hold their line as long as you're taking it slow.

I personally thought hard about the necessity for snow tires for the 4Runner. I decided to go ahead and get General Artic Altimax Artic 265/70/17 because I spend quite a bit of time on mountain passes for snowboarding or to Spokane during the holidays in which I could be driving on snow/ice for days at a time. For me, it's a safety concern, especially at high speeds with a short wheelbase and being rear wheel drive 99% of the time. This is my first winter season with a 4WD vehicle. Every other winter on my FWD cars, I've used either a studded or studless tires including BF Goodrich Winter Slaloms, Michelin Artic Alpine Studless, and General Atlimax Artic (non-studded).

Personal experience has demonstrated how terrible All Seasons (not to be confused with All Terrains) are on snow and ice when compared to even the cheapest winter tires. Whenever I got caught in any sort of compact snow/ice situation in my TL wearing new F1 A/S or Eagle GT A/S tires, I'd engage traction control and ABS during stop and go no matter how easy I was on the pedals. I would also get stuck and traction control would make it even worse because it would cut all torque to the drive wheels if the tires slipped or had low traction. Once I got winter tires, I had to try really hard to even activate traction control/ABS. I've seen far too many spun out or rolled over SUV and trucks off the side of the road over the years to flirt with icy roads without proper traction.

Since we're talking about the 4Runner with 4WD though, I'd say if money is of no concern and you drive in below freezing conditions often, go with dedicated Winter tires. If you're on a budget or do not encounter ice/snow much, get a good fairly siped All Terrain tire. Keep in mind that a half 30-40% worn All Terrain tire is not better than a typical All Season tire.

FYI - You can get a set of Firestone Winterforces installed in 265/75/16 for about $600 at Firestone Dealer while a set of General Altimax Artic will cost around $650.

 

[stanleybb50]

I just wanted to note to the Op that I'm about to turn 30 here in Western PA and have never once driven with snow tires. We dont get Buffalo-type winters with the snow, but we get a fair amount. There's no question winter tires are better, and perhaps ''night and day'' as stated, but I've now made it through 14 winters with all-seasons on front wheel drive cars only (Honda Accords, a Civic, a Buick Skylark). Never got stuck once. Just need to take it easy. (I actually only know a couple people that run winters here.)

Got my T4R in April and can't wait to see how it and the 4wheel/all wheel perform this winter with the Maxxis Bravo H/T's that came on it.

With the above said, I would still LOVE to have dedicated winter tires....


- Sent via Tapatalk for Android