Wood Beam Checking?

[bofa]

I'm wondering how much checking is "too much" checking. We have a vertical 8" beam, about 10' long supporting the far corner of our patio. The house was framed early 2014. There was some initial checking a few months in, which I understand is just the nature of wood. But the cracks have continued to expand on all 4 sides, some almost the full length of the post and over 1/4" wide.

I had an inspection and he agreed that it was a concern... but i get the feeling these guys tend to tell you what you want to hear, at least that was the case with other items.

My concern is about structural stability and exposure to moisture intrusion. The builder tried filling it in with caulk before and that obviously did its own expansion and contracting and now looks like sh_.

Anyway, how much checking is too much checking if checked wood checks too much?

 

[Omar RVA]

The checking could be for a number of reasons, from wood type to cut to moisture or installation issues. Without seeing it in person or seeing pictures (with a scale), it's tough to say for sure how big of an issue it could or could not be. That said, 1/4" width is starting to get a bit wide for the sake of moisture intrusion (insects and mold too).

The big concern is the depth of the cracks. When a beam is chosen for that use, an engineer will calculate the load it needs to carry and assign a cross section given the type of wood and length of post. When the crack starts getting deeper, you start to lose cross-section, thus strength (you also start getting into issues for bending and twisting, but for this application, we probably don't need to go that deep). It depends on cost considerations as well as who actually "engineered" the thing at the time of building, but they typically use a healthy safety factor.

In the short term, you can get a good outdoor wood sealant and coat the beam as needed (get it into the cracks the best you can, even as they expand). Keep an eye on the depth of the checks as well as the outside dimensions of the beam (you said it's an 8" post so it should measure somewhere near 7.5" per side); you don't want it to bulge here.

OA

Source: Civil Engineering degree - I do highways now - really a bit of everything, but studied to design bridges. Wood is a bit different from steel and concrete however, so I would defer to someone who knows more in that area.

 

[1engineer]

The checking could be for a number of reasons, from wood type to cut to moisture or installation issues. Without seeing it in person or seeing pictures (with a scale), it's tough to say for sure how big of an issue it could or could not be. That said, 1/4" width is starting to get a bit wide for the sake of moisture intrusion (insects and mold too).

The big concern is the depth of the cracks. When a beam is chosen for that use, an engineer will calculate the load it needs to carry and assign a cross section given the type of wood and length of post. When the crack starts getting deeper, you start to lose cross-section, thus strength (you also start getting into issues for bending and twisting, but for this application, we probably don't need to go that deep). It depends on cost considerations as well as who actually "engineered" the thing at the time of building, but they typically use a healthy safety factor.

In the short term, you can get a good outdoor wood sealant and coat the beam as needed (get it into the cracks the best you can, even as they expand). Keep an eye on the depth of the checks as well as the outside dimensions of the beam (you said it's an 8" post so it should measure somewhere near 7.5" per side); you don't want it to bulge here.

OA

Source: Civil Engineering degree - I do highways now, but studied to design bridges. Wood is a bit different from steel and concrete however, so I would defer to someone who knows more in that area.

How much load does it actually support? In a column, a simple 2X4 can support an incredible amount of weight. If you don't like it, go get you another one. 8X8X10' is not that expensive.

Source: Mechanical Engineer who designs high pressure propel systems. Yeah, I wouldn't listen to me either...

 

[Omar RVA]

How much load does it actually support? In a column, a simple 2X4 can support an incredible amount of weight. If you don't like it, go get you another one. 8X8X10' is not that expensive.

Source: Mechanical Engineer who designs high pressure propel systems. Yeah, I wouldn't listen to me either...

I agree (cya: but without seeing how it's built I can't have an idea of how it would fail).

You make a good point. Here are some random load tables I googled from a manufacturer of square posts. He could lose 75% of his section and still have a nice safety factor.

OA

Edit: Thread ruined enhanced by engineers.

 

[1engineer]

I agree (cya: but without seeing how it's built I can't have an idea of how it would fail).

You make a good point. Here are some random load tables I googled from a manufacturer of square posts. He could lose 75% of his section and still have a nice safety factor.

OA

Edit: Thread ruined enhanced by engineers.

Haha. Reminds me of an episode of "Big Bang Theory" when Penny needed a simple bookshelf from IKEA assembled and it ended up with heat sinks, torches and liquid nitrogen plumbing...

Edit: I did take an elective class in wood structural design my senior year... learned a LOT about laminates lol.

 

[bofa]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies. I'll try to provide some more info and some specs.

First, my memory failed me... it's a 6" post.

The worst of the splitting is on the southern-facing side of the post, which is covered by the gutter downspout, so pics are a little hard to get straight on without removing it.

I checked some of the worst spots for depth and came up with 1 3/8".

The post itself isn't supporting a lot of weight. The patio has structural walls on two sides that intersect, and the post is on the outer corner with just roofline above.

Here are pics (apologies in advance for the size and quantity).

Here are the 2 sides that were previously caulked and repainted.

Western-facing side that has not been repaired previously

And here's the worst of the checking, which is almost exclusively behind the downspout... sorry for the angles.

 

[MtnT4R]

Unfortunately that looks like the framers turned a blind eye to a crappy cut of wood- that sucker should have been returned to the yard and replaced. I'll bet you 50 bucks it wasn't a very straight piece of lumber that the framers forced into position. Is it twisting yet? I've got a couple roof beams that could make decent propellers, but that's one consequence of a house built in the 70's by off-season ski bums. It was probably installed before having time to dry out completely, and the wood grain is seeking its original alignment as it dries... new construction right? Its probably pressure treated so you shouldn't have much in the way of mold rot problems, but I would double check that with the contractor.

I'm not an engineer, but it doesn't look like an immediate problem, even though the size of those cracks is a little concerning. Interior lumber usually dries out and shrinks completely within the first year or so, but with exterior lumber(facing....West, right? looks like from the photo anyways) exposed to the prevailing weather you are going to get significant moisture into those cracks. Like I said, with treated wood you shouldn't have to worry much about rot, but moisture penetration and expansion/contraction with freeze/thaw I would keep an eye on it at least seasonally...

 

[bofa]

Unfortunately that looks like the framers turned a blind eye to a crappy cut of wood- that sucker should have been returned to the yard and replaced. I'll bet you 50 bucks it wasn't a very straight piece of lumber that the framers forced into position. Is it twisting yet? I've got a couple roof beams that could make decent propellers, but that's one consequence of a house built in the 70's by off-season ski bums. It was probably installed before having time to dry out completely, and the wood grain is seeking its original alignment as it dries... new construction right? Its probably pressure treated so you shouldn't have moisture problems, but I would double check that with the contractor.

I'm not an engineer, but it doesn't look like an immediate problem, even though the size of those cracks is a little concerning. How long has it been up for?

The house was completed at the end of April 2014. Framing was probably in December 2013. I brought it up in our final walkthrough and they said it was fine and would not expand anymore. The builder originally did the caulk patchwork last Summer. They finally agreed to replace it but now they are backpedaling and trying to pitch covering it with LP siding and I'm not having that. I'd only agree to that if it was inspected by a structural engineer, backed by a warranty, properly patched, and then covered/painted in a design to my liking.

 

[MtnT4R]

The house was completed at the end of April 2014. Framing was probably in December 2013. I brought it up in our final walkthrough and they said it was fine and would not expand anymore. The builder originally did the caulk patchwork last Summer. They finally agreed to replace it but now they are backpedaling and trying to pitch covering it with LP siding and I'm not having that. I'd only agree to that if it was inspected by a structural engineer, backed by a warranty, properly patched, and then covered/painted in a design to my liking.

ahhh cripes, I was editing my comment when you replied. Good on you for getting it fixed properly, its too easy for a contractor to say f*k it and cover it up. Buddy of mine worked for a small business we half jokingly referred to as 'Sweep it Under the Rug Construction." Its frustratingly common.

 

[bofa]

ahhh cripes, I was editing my comment when you replied. Good on you for getting it fixed properly, its too easy for a contractor to say f*k it and cover it up. Buddy of mine worked for a small business we half jokingly referred to as 'Sweep it Under the Rug Construction." Its frustratingly common.

No worries Yeah this builder is all about patchwork. I'm at the end of my 1 year warranty though, so I've got to turn up the pressure a bit to get this stuff resolved.

 

[MtnT4R]

No worries Yeah this builder is all about patchwork. I'm at the end of my 1 year warranty though, so I've got to turn up the pressure a bit to get this stuff resolved.

If they fail to fix you can throw the book at them if you want to- CO statute of repose on construction defects is 6 years, or 2 years from the time the homeowner becomes aware of the defect:
What Every Homeowner Should Know About Colorado’s Statutes of Limitations and Repose for Construction Defect Claims
Harsh New Time Limits on Construction Defect Claims | HindmanSanchez


If you want to read the legal mumbo jumbo:
Colorado Construction Defect Law

2.2 General Contractor / Custom Builder
A general contractor of a custom home has different liabilities from that of a buildervendor because construction is built pursuant to a set of plans drafted by design professionals engaged either by the general contractor or the owner. The duties owed by a general contractor of a custom home as well as a builder-vendor or subcontractor include not only those owed under contract, but the duty to build without negligence. See A.C. Excavating v. Yacht Club II Homeowners Ass'n, Inc., 114 P.3d 862 (Colo.2005). It is important to understand that this duty in tort applies to residential construction as opposed to commercial construction where duties are generally governed by contract. This duty independent of contract is discussed in further detail below in connection with Colorado’s adoption of the economic loss rule.

 

[bofa]

If they fail to fix you can throw the book at them if you want to- CO statute of repose on construction defects is 6 years, or 2 years from the time the homeowner becomes aware of the defect:
What Every Homeowner Should Know About Colorado’s Statutes of Limitations and Repose for Construction Defect Claims
Harsh New Time Limits on Construction Defect Claims | HindmanSanchez


If you want to read the legal mumbo jumbo:
Colorado Construction Defect Law

Thanks! Hopefully it doesn't go that far but you never know.

 

[bofa]

Where'd my engineers go? You guys are busy designing laser beams for sharks, aren't you...

 

[Omar RVA]

Sorry – life has been busy!

Personally, I think its fine as is. I wouldn’t worry about the structural stability of the post until the downspout side crack, or any of the cracks, doubles in depth (approximately half way through the section). Then I’d be more worried about the beam itself delaminating – if I can use that term here. Which is why I think it is important to observe the changes in wood closely in the interim. I suspect some of the damage is coming from how they installed the downspout to be honest. [MENTION=91673]MtnT4R[/MENTION] had a good point about the warranty I had not considered. The construction is new enough and you’ve had an inspector say it could be a problem. Get it replaced while you still have the warranty simply because it will be relatively cheap; it seems the law is on your side here. You could also pursue the DIY route in which case the beam itself should run you about 30 bucks. However, I wouldn’t go that way if you still have/intend to keep a home warranty.

Now - back to those sharks...with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads.

OA

 

[1engineer]

Sorry – life has been busy!

Personally, I think its fine as is. I wouldn’t worry about the structural stability of the post until the downspout side crack, or any of the cracks, doubles in depth (approximately half way through the section). Then I’d be more worried about the beam itself delaminating – if I can use that term here. Which is why I think it is important to observe the changes in wood closely in the interim. I suspect some of the damage is coming from how they installed the downspout to be honest. [MENTION=91673]MtnT4R[/MENTION] had a good point about the warranty I had not considered. The construction is new enough and you’ve had an inspector say it could be a problem. Get it replaced while you still have the warranty simply because it will be relatively cheap; it seems the law is on your side here. You could also pursue the DIY route in which case the beam itself should run you about 30 bucks. However, I wouldn’t go that way if you still have/intend to keep a home warranty.

Now - back to those sharks...with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads.

OA

I concur with my colleague who designs targets for my weapons. Your biggest problem is just visual and not structural. IMO this beam is just drying out. http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/5302/Splits_Cracks_Wood_ocr.pdf It could be that torsion (fixed on both ends) and drying out could play a bit part in the checks as the wood is finding it's natural shape as it dries. If it were my column I would not worry about it structurally. Visually? Your call. I have built quite a few wooden structures in my life (decks, additions, chests, tables, arbors, mantles, etc) and this is pretty common on anything larger than a 2X4, especially when exposed to the weather. I built my own mantle and started with a rough cut red oak board that was 4"X18"X14' long, knowing that I would have to re-plane it down to 3" after bring it inside and mounting it above the fireplace. I made gussets out of the same board and even they checked, but I knew that going in. Big lumber cracks and that is the simple truth. Chances are that when your contractor replaces it the new one will check as well.

If you want something that will look good visually for years to come I would just face it up with some 3/4 stuff. That has less chance to check as a 6X6 post.

 

[bofa]

Sorry – life has been busy!

Personally, I think its fine as is. I wouldn’t worry about the structural stability of the post until the downspout side crack, or any of the cracks, doubles in depth (approximately half way through the section). Then I’d be more worried about the beam itself delaminating – if I can use that term here. Which is why I think it is important to observe the changes in wood closely in the interim. I suspect some of the damage is coming from how they installed the downspout to be honest. [MENTION=91673]MtnT4R[/MENTION] had a good point about the warranty I had not considered. The construction is new enough and you’ve had an inspector say it could be a problem. Get it replaced while you still have the warranty simply because it will be relatively cheap; it seems the law is on your side here. You could also pursue the DIY route in which case the beam itself should run you about 30 bucks. However, I wouldn’t go that way if you still have/intend to keep a home warranty.

Now - back to those sharks...with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads.

OA

I concur with my colleague who designs targets for my weapons. Your biggest problem is just visual and not structural. IMO this beam is just drying out. http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/5302/Splits_Cracks_Wood_ocr.pdf It could be that torsion (fixed on both ends) and drying out could play a bit part in the checks as the wood is finding it's natural shape as it dries. If it were my column I would not worry about it structurally. Visually? Your call. I have built quite a few wooden structures in my life (decks, additions, chests, tables, arbors, mantles, etc) and this is pretty common on anything larger than a 2X4, especially when exposed to the weather. I built my own mantle and started with a rough cut red oak board that was 4"X18"X14' long, knowing that I would have to re-plane it down to 3" after bring it inside and mounting it above the fireplace. I made gussets out of the same board and even they checked, but I knew that going in. Big lumber cracks and that is the simple truth. Chances are that when your contractor replaces it the new one will check as well.

If you want something that will look good visually for years to come I would just face it up with some 3/4 stuff. That has less chance to check as a 6X6 post.

Thanks fellas. The customer part of me still wants it replaced but it sounds like it could end up being just as bad in another year. Maybe I can get them to replace it and cover it up.

I've had exposed structural supports like these before and this is the worst I've seen as far as checking goes. I've been to two neighbors houses for various events in the past couple of months and neither of them had supports checking this bad. I guess I got the bad egg but good to know it's probably not a safety issue.

For our old house, I used wood filler for the splits instead of caulk. Any idea if that is a better solution or is it just as futile as caulk?

 

[1engineer]

Thanks fellas. The customer part of me still wants it replaced but it sounds like it could end up being just as bad in another year. Maybe I can get them to replace it and cover it up.

I've had exposed structural supports like these before and this is the worst I've seen as far as checking goes. I've been to two neighbors houses for various events in the past couple of months and neither of them had supports checking this bad. I guess I got the bad egg but good to know it's probably not a safety issue.

For our old house, I used wood filler for the splits instead of caulk. Any idea if that is a better solution or is it just as futile as caulk?

Get you a can of Great Stuff and spray in the bigger cracks. Test it out on a paper towel first!!!! After it dries take a sharp knife and carve it down to surface level - don't worry, it cuts easily. Then paint. That is probably what will work the best, especially in the bigger ones.

 

[bofa]

After ribbing the builder a bit for promising one thing and trying to back out, I've agreed to let them reinforce the beam, then cover and paint it. Hopefully it turns out alright.

They're still in the dog house for trying to weasel out of another issue though... still a work in progress.

Thanks for the help and input guys - it made me feel a lot better about not having them replace the entire thing.

 

[wallytoo]

sounds like you've now got a solution heading your way.

to me, it doesn't look like a problem. exterior P/T checks, and for the light load it is carrying, it probably would not be a problem for more than 25 years (longer is a good guess). but, if you are able to get the builder to replace/repair, good.

wally