Yet another suspension question

[voda48]

Hi all,

I've been using this site for a while to bring my wife's old 4Runner into its prime. The car is solid overall however needed some new suspension, etc... The car was running 13 year old suspension and rode like it. The rear end sag was bad enough that I finally pulled the trigger and installed brand new struts, shocks/coils and end links last weekend (KYB Gas Adjust/ Moog Springs).

The ride is much improved however there are two things I am curious about:
1) squeakiness
2) rear height

1) Related to the squeakiness, I figured it might take a little bit for the bushing, etc... to break in however the noise sounds more like the springs compressing. It could honestly be due to the fact that I only have about 100 miles on the new setup and need to wait a bit more however it had me wondering about something.

I had to have someone build the struts for me since my compressor couldn't handle the Moog springs. When I got the struts back, I noticed that the coils didn't sit flat on the strut mounts. Basically with the old Toyota struts the coils where shaved down flat to work with the mounts. These new struts literally dig into the mount in order to fit. I don't have a picture, however I am wondering if this is the source of the noise (not enough padding) and if I need to find a way to cut/file/shave the spring in order to fit better. Thoughts?

2) The new suspension restored the rear end height about an 1" however the fronts are now actually taller so it looks like the rear is sagging again! This might be related to 1) and the coils might be a bit to long up front, however I am wondering if I should install a modest 1.25" spacer in the rear to raise it or again wait to see if the front settles more.

I have read on here that most don't like the spacers as it tends to kill longevity of the spring in addition to over extending the shock, however would a small spacer likely put this strain on the spring as well? I am stumped on what to do, do I wait, should I look at getting taller springs? I don't think I can return the Moog ones.

I'd appreciate some advice, I tried searching on here and frankly there is so much info that it tends to be overwhelming. Thanks!

 

[JayRolla]

Hi all,

I've been using this site for a while to bring my wife's old 4Runner into its prime. The car is solid overall however needed some new suspension, etc... The car was running 13 year old suspension and rode like it. The rear end sag was bad enough that I finally pulled the trigger and installed brand new struts, shocks/coils and end links last weekend (KYB Gas Adjust/ Moog Springs).

The ride is much improved however there are two things I am curious about:
1) squeakiness
2) rear height

1) Related to the squeakiness, I figured it might take a little bit for the bushing, etc... to break in however the noise sounds more like the springs compressing. It could honestly be due to the fact that I only have about 100 miles on the new setup and need to wait a bit more however it had me wondering about something.

I had to have someone build the struts for me since my compressor couldn't handle the Moog springs. When I got the struts back, I noticed that the coils didn't sit flat on the strut mounts. Basically with the old Toyota struts the coils where shaved down flat to work with the mounts. These new struts literally dig into the mount in order to fit. I don't have a picture, however I am wondering if this is the source of the noise (not enough padding) and if I need to find a way to cut/file/shave the spring in order to fit better. Thoughts?

2) The new suspension restored the rear end height about an 1" however the fronts are now actually taller so it looks like the rear is sagging again! This might be related to 1) and the coils might be a bit to long up front, however I am wondering if I should install a modest 1.25" spacer in the rear to raise it or again wait to see if the front settles more.

I have read on here that most don't like the spacers as it tends to kill longevity of the spring in addition to over extending the shock, however would a small spacer likely put this strain on the spring as well? I am stumped on what to do, do I wait, should I look at getting taller springs? I don't think I can return the Moog ones.

I'd appreciate some advice, I tried searching on here and frankly there is so much info that it tends to be overwhelming. Thanks!

Squeekiness can be caused by lots of things. You want to put a small layer of grease on all bushings, especially if they are poly.

I have seen a lot of others have the taller front when going with aftermarket parts. IMO 99 OEM coils and shocks would have been best bet and they would have installed correctly and would ride correctly.

That being said if the front coils dont sit correctly into the top hats it will cause the strut assembly to preload causing a higher ride height.

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Is it possible the shop didn't reuse or place back the rubber Rubber Coil Isolator. When reassembling the struts back together

 

[Oprah]

I'd say you might need different strut mounts if the bottom of the front springs are different than factory. Maybe contact Moog. Having incorrect strut mounts could definitely cause the front to sit higher if the springs arent seated properly. Also, the front's may settle after a few thousand miles and level out the truck. My front's definitely settled after installing my lift much quicker (and more than) than the rears (Tundra front springs/OME 891 rear springs).

 

[1985taylor1925]

Op you should post a picture of how the springs are seated on the top hat

 

[voda48]

Thanks guys.

Yeah, I looked at 99 OEM springs however that is ~$200 for two springs vs. the $60 I spent on the MOOG. I'll be honest, I drive this car in the winter when I put my GTO away so I was trying to limit cost b/c I'd rather spend $ on other things than a hunting/winter car. I know there is a lot of truth to "you get what you pay for" however reviews on the Moogs were pretty positive so I gambled. I am thinking they may not be the case.

As for a picture, not sure when I will get one. When I did suspension on my GTO the strut mount had a natural grove for the spring to fit, example picture:

However the new KYB strut mounts These mounts were just flat and didn't have this so the spring is jammed in there, pinching some of the material. Should the shop of cut out a grove before installing?

Should I have trimmed the spring the the Toyota ones? (attached example image)

What did you guys do when you guys did your suspension upgrades? Where the springs trimmed or did the strut mounts have this kind of slot for the spring to fit?

 

[1985taylor1925]

Thanks guys.

Yeah, I looked at 99 OEM springs however that is ~$200 for two springs vs. the $60 I spent on the MOOG. I'll be honest, I drive this car in the winter when I put my GTO away so I was trying to limit cost b/c I'd rather spend $ on other things than a hunting/winter car. I know there is a lot of truth to "you get what you pay for" however reviews on the Moogs were pretty positive so I gambled. I am thinking they may not be the case.

As for a picture, not sure when I will get one. When I did suspension on my GTO the strut mount had a natural grove for the spring to fit, example picture:

However the new KYB strut mounts These mounts were just flat and didn't have this so the spring is jammed in there, pinching some of the material. Should the shop of cut out a grove before installing?

Should I have trimmed the spring the the Toyota ones? (attached example image)

What did you guys do when you guys did your suspension upgrades? Where the springs trimmed or did the strut mounts have this kind of slot for the spring to fit?

No, the rubber top mount is just a solid flat ring. The top of the spring should be flat just like the one you show pictured on the bottom, to fit flush on the top mount. Youre saying the moog coils are rounded on top, like the coil youre showing in the top picture?

 

[voda48]

No, the rubber top mount is just a solid flat ring. The top of the spring should be flat just like the one you show pictured on the bottom, to fit flush on the top mount. Youre saying the moog coils are rounded on top, like the coil youre showing in the top picture?

Yup, the top of the spring is not flat and does not mount flush with the with the strut mount.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Yup, the top of the spring is not flat and does not mount flush with the with the strut mount.

Huh. Well in that case, I would say either 1) moog makes their own top hat to go with that coil or 2) they skip the step in shaving the top of the coil to save some time and money. Probably the later.

I just noticed you are in Madison. I technically live in Watertown, WI. Though Im currently in Wyoming with family for an indefinite period of time. I worked at Trek in Waterloo. Im really missing the Wisconsin fall colors right now

 

[voda48]

Huh. Well in that case, I would say either 1) moog makes their own top hat to go with that coil or 2) they skip the step in shaving the top of the coil to save some time and money. Probably the later.

I just noticed you are in Madison. I technically live in Watertown, WI. Though Im currently in Wyoming with family for an indefinite period of time. I worked at Trek in Waterloo. Im really missing the Wisconsin fall colors right now

Yeah, the colors are just starting. Really nice weather we are having too, going to get some hiking in this weekend. Hopefully you'll make it back to Wisconsin soon.

As for the mounts, moog does make some however the bearing is not included

 

[1985taylor1925]

Yeah, the colors are just starting. Really nice weather we are having too, going to get some hiking in this weekend. Hopefully you'll make it back to Wisconsin soon.

As for the mounts, moog does make some however the bearing is not included

Be careful out there. Im sure you know about ticks and lyme disease in Wisconsin. The reason Im back in Wyoming now is because last fall, probably in late October, I apparently contracted lyme disease while hiking! I have lyme and two strains of pneumonia. Its been terrible. Got so sick I had to fly home cause I couldn't take care of myself. Then lost my job at Trek after 3 months of disability. Ive just recently began to make some progress.

Anyways, WI is an awesome place. Id be hiking or mountain biking this weekend too if I were there and healthy.

 

[voda48]

Hi all,

So I am taking a look at the struts and had a couple of questions. The coil spring I am using has one end with a smaller diameter coil. I would have thought that the smaller end would go on bottom and match up with the bottom of the strut assembly however the shop that built these for me put the smaller end on top. Is that right?

It looks like the spring might be rubbing on the bottom of the strut (picture). Could that be the source of the noise?

I'd take them apart to find out however my spring compressor (even the skinny Harbor Freight one) one fit between the coils so I need a shop to dismantle and reassemble. Before doing that I wanted to make sure this was wrong.

Thanks guys

 

[1985taylor1925]

Wow. Yes the shop installed those upside down. Not only is that wrong, but its also dangerous in my opinion. The end of the spring could slide down over the bottom perch. The person who did that needs to be slapped in the face with a chair.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Im surprised the spring compresson wont work. I got my spring compressor from harbor freight and have used it 4 times on both sides.

But there is another way to separate the coilover yourself without a compressor. I have done it this way and it works well. Heres a link to how to do it. If you have any questions let me know


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkVLBOnAifc

 

[voda48]

Yeah, I took it out and went to the shop. The owner took one look at it and said he would fix it for me right away. Got back, installed and life is good. Rides smooth as glass and no squeak.

As for the other method of spring compressing, I'll pass. I thought about doing it that way and then decided taking it back to the shop was the way to go. Thanks though

 

[1985taylor1925]

Yeah, I took it out and went to the shop. The owner took one look at it and said he would fix it for me right away. Got back, installed and life is good. Rides smooth as glass and no squeak.

As for the other method of spring compressing, I'll pass. I thought about doing it that way and then decided taking it back to the shop was the way to go. Thanks though

Good deal. Glad you got the suspension worked out. Any chance you could post a side view picture of your truck? I'm curious to see how high the moogs sit compared to stock

 

[voda48]

Good deal. Glad you got the suspension worked out. Any chance you could post a side view picture of your truck? I'm curious to see how high the moogs sit compared to stock

I'll take one tomorrow

 

[voda48]

I held off on taking any pictures because I wasn't satisfied with the rear height. Since I installed the new Moog springs about a month ago they are now beginning to sag more than the original suspension that was 13 years old. I contacted Amazon returned the springs and instead purchased some 99 oem Springs from toyota. They were a lot more expensive but I'm happy with the results.

36" in the rear, 35" in the front (measured from ground to fender. The Moog had actually sagged to 34.5“ in only a month. No weight in the he back of the 4Runner.