Cam Bolts and Whiteline LCA Bushing Excessive Play Help

This Question has been resolved, the Whiteline Installation Tutorial can be found here: Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushing Tutorial (120+ Pictures)
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Hello All, I'm needing some help with LCA bushings that appear to have excessive play. I tried to break it up into some sections to try and explain my situation as best as possible.

Background:
As a quarantine project, I am replacing the alignment cams and my lower control arm bushings. I know most people would recommend replacing the whole LCA, but I have a lot of time right now and am willing to put in the extra work. I figure I will take the hard road try to learn a bit, then do a writeup afterwards for others. There are lots of writeups out there on the energy suspension bushings, but my cams are probably seized into the bushings beyond the point of reusing the sleeves. A few 3rd gen writeups recommended the Whiteline bushings, so I figured I would get the 4th gen equivalent bushings. Unfortunately there weren't really any complete threads on the 4th gen whitelines, only a few half complete threads without an active OP.

Parts:
I ordered the Whiteline W53312 LCA bushing kit from Amazon and all OEM alignment cam bolts from McGeorge Toyota. I am sure that the cams are the correct part numbers, I cross referenced this post by NeutronJon and this one by blackfc3s to make sure I had the correct ones.

Question:
I did a dry fit on my desk, and I was struck by the amount of play between the bushing's inner sleeve and the cam bolt. My understanding is control arm rotation should occur between the bushing ID and the sleeve OD, which is greased on assembly. Let me know if this is incorrect, I'm trying to learn all I can. I feel like the amount of play in the sleeve is beyond normal, since it is not supposed to rotate on the alignment cam.

In the case that this is normal, does tightening the bolts take up the slop? Tightening the bolt will limit movement front to back and would rely on only friction to hold them in the in, out, up, down directions (maybe call it r, θ direction lol).

Relevant Threads:
LCA bushings

• Orders the W53377A set (I think is for 3rd gen based on reading) and W53312 set (intended for 4th gen) to see which is correct
• Mentions that the W53377A set (intended for 3rd gen) is probably the correct one for the 2003
• Mentions in another thread they're having trouble pressing in W53312 bushings (intended for 4th gen)
• Build thread says has whiteline LCA bushings, but never mentions which set was used
• Made me second guess if I ordered the correct set, although both Amazon and Whitelines site said the kit that I ordered is compatible

Whiteline VS OEM LCA bushings

• gx470, but front suspension similar to 4th gen
• Initially orders Siberian bushings but fitment is not right
• Then orders the same Whiteline that I got and installs with success
• Mentions Whitelines fit and work great. Since had fitment issue with others, I think would mention if had play in the whitelines

Measurements:
I took measurements a bit after posting this, and the pictures can be found in post #14 linked here: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3493028-post14.html
The OD of the rear cam bolt is a close to 13.5mm
The ID of the rear bushing sleeve is close to 14.5mm
The OD of the front cam bolt is a hair over 19mm
The ID of the front bushing sleeve is just about 20mm


Videos (should open in new Imgur tab if you click the image):
Embedded videos do not seem to work on mobile, so they've been posted as unlisted on youtube
rear bushing sleeve play: YouTube
front cam bolt and bushing sleeve play: YouTube
front bushing play: YouTube
front bushing play 2: YouTube

Front LCA Bushing Video:
<a href="https://imgur.com/H8u3QrE " target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/H8u3QrEl.mp4" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Rear LCA Bushing Video:
<a href="https://imgur.com/8a58rrf" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/8a58rrfl.mp4" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Also, I do notice the rear cam bolt has a shoulder on the head side, but not on the nut side. There is also a ridged section on the nut side of the bushing, what is the function of this?
<a href="https://imgur.com/yZsJ7sI" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/yZsJ7sIl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/gZVAdpE" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/gZVAdpEl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Pic of the dry fit, in case there is something obviously wrong:
<a href="https://imgur.com/0bKrIev" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/0bKrIevl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/AEIuHYR" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/AEIuHYRl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

I started in on these not long after brian3676 did his... mine are still sitting collecting dust in the garage... i am a master procrastinator.

I measure a 9/16" ID on that rear bushing sleeve.
The WL bushings have one side that is slightly longer than the other side of the bushing, The longer side should be pointed to the outside, your (dry fit) pic has one side backwards.

Seems like to much gap in that pic you posted, cam bolt/WL bushing sleeve.
Wrong bolts?

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it

BackOff said:

I started in on these not long after brian3676 did his... mine are still sitting collecting dust in the garage

Click to expand...

I sent out some pms to some posters that were active within the last month, brian was one of them. Hopefully I heard something back and can nail down the issue

BackOff said:

I measure a 9/16" ID on that rear bushing sleeve.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that confirmation, I did take a measurement and got 9/16 as well for the bushing sleeve ID
<a href="https://imgur.com/ENClck7" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ENClck7m.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

BackOff said:

The WL bushings have one side that is slightly longer than the other side of the bushing, The longer side should be pointed to the outside, your (dry fit) pic has one side backwards.

Click to expand...

Thanks you're right, I missed that on the dryfit

BackOff said:

Seems like to much gap in that pic you posted, cam bolt/WL bushing sleeve.
Wrong bolts?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree that its a bit more gap/play than I would feel comfortable with. Good to hear I'm not going insane. I was thinking wrong cam bolts as well, but I used 2 different threads with the same exact parts lists to confirm they were right. These are the lists here: Lower Control Arm Replacements? - Page 7 - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum and here: Need Cam Bolts and Sleeves? - OEM Part #s. Visually, they also look like the old cams that are currently on there. Year, model, and trim were all on invoice, so I hope they would have called me with any incompatibilities. I'll add a pic of the invoice here too:
<a href="https://imgur.com/na6DMzO" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/na6DMzOl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

edit: added part about visually matching old ones

I can't watch the videos for some reason. Are those pics with the bolts tightened down? It's my understanding that these bushings are supposed to allow the LCA to rotate freely, that is where the improvement in driveability comes from supposedly. I've been leaning towards these rather than new LCA's. Following.

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montijo505 said:

I can't watch the videos for some reason. Are those pics with the bolts tightened down? It's my understanding that these bushings are supposed to allow the LCA to rotate freely, that is where the improvement in driveability comes from supposedly. I've been leaning towards these rather than new LCA's. Following.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response! Was hoping the embedded video thing would work, but for now, I uploaded them as unlisted to youtube since thats easy. Here are the links:
rear bushing sleeve play: YouTube
front cam bolt and bushing sleeve play: YouTube
front bushing play: YouTube
front bushing play 2: YouTube

The bolts are only hand tight on my desk. I could go out and cut the old control arm bolts and bolt these ups before pressing into the control arms. I'm scared to get in too deep haha.

Yeah I liked that they offered some slight handling benefits over the standard rubber bushing, or even other poly bushings. My understanding from reading up is the control arm rotation should occur between the bushing ID and the sleeve OD, which is greased on assembly. The rotation isn't supposed to occur metal on metal between the sleeve ID and the cam OD. Am I understanding this correctly?

I guess what you're saying makes the most logical sense. Might be worth reaching out to whiteline if you don't want to try the install first.

Another thing to take into consideration is you'll want to grease these liberally. Might be why there's a small amount of wiggle. Also the bushings won't sit right against the cam plates like that installed, it'll have the frame mount in there as well. Torqued to spec I'd speculate (lol) they'll fit fine.

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The OEM bushing ID is 9/16" too, btw.
And the w53312 was the same ones i did.

I would check the new to the old bolts when you get it apart, if they match up, go for it.
Seems like a bolt that is the same 9/16" the whole length would be better...must be by design, flex for the caster/camber?

Taco guys swear by Superlube for the grease.

I will try and get mine on within the next couple weeks.

If you cant get the OEM bushings out...

montijo505 said:

I guess what you're saying makes the most logical sense. Might be worth reaching out to whiteline if you don't want to try the install first.

Another thing to take into consideration is you'll want to grease these liberally. Might be why there's a small amount of wiggle. Also the bushings won't sit right against the cam plates like that installed, it'll have the frame mount in there as well. Torqued to spec I'd speculate (lol) they'll fit fine.

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Click to expand...

Yeah I'll probably give them a call tomorrow and update.

As for grease, Backoff had mentioned the taco guys like superlube and I had read that as well. Before, I was thinking of getting a marine grease, so that water getting in there would have trouble displacing a grease meant to withstand water. I still gotta finalize the grease choice.

True, the frame mounts will be sandwiched in there. The front bushing actually won't really tighten up without them in there. Odd how they don't use the same cam design front and rear.

BackOff said:

The OEM bushing ID is 9/16" too, btw.
And the w53312 was the same ones i did.

I would check the new to the old bolts when you get it apart, if they match up, go for it.
Seems like a bolt that is the same 9/16" the whole length would be better...must be by design, flex for the caster/camber?

Taco guys swear by Superlube for the grease.

I will try and get mine on within the next couple weeks.

If you cant get the OEM bushings out...

Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming the dimensions and bushing kit.

I'll do the best comparison I can after the massacre of seized cams haha. Just looking from the outside, everything appears to be the same. Of course, they could be different on the inside.

Yeah I had read about superlube, but also considered some marine grease. I was figuring a grease aimed to withstand water might do well on the suspension that gets splashed or submerged, but I dunno. Still gonna finalize by research on that

Oof, looks like a lot of cutting. I'm hoping I can melt the circumference so it will release and then either bottle jack or press them out the rest of the way. The jack method scares me that it could bend the control arm. I've seen a few other tricks on tacomaworld, but I'm also ready to go buy a big press from harbor freight. New toys are always fun

Forgot about these, Tacotabs.
9/16" bolt

Poly Performance Tab Alignment Cam Delete Kit for Toyota 05-15 Tacoma, 03-09 4Runner, GX470, 07-09 FJ Cruiser | POLY PERFORMANCE

I've been running the Whiteline bushings in my OE LCAs for over two years. I don't recall ever testing the cam bolts in the bushing before installation, so I can't say for certain that I did or didn't have any play. Either way, I haven't had any issues that I'm aware of with movement of the LCAs, loss of alignment, etc. One of my quarantine tasks has been to drop the LCAs to check on the cam bolts and re-grease, so it will be a good opportunity for me to check for what you are describing.

I will also confirm which type of grease I used. I'm a big fan of Superlube, but I often try to use a high-temp bearing or marine grease where there may be water ingress. I'll double-check what I used in this case.

I mentioned this in FB but I'll mention it here to help the info get out. I had trouble replacing my rear lower control arm bolt with a longer bolt after welding on Eimkeith's LLS kit.

The bolt is a M14 bolt, and I bought a new M14 bolt. I went to slide it through the mount holes and the threads screwed through, like the OEM bolt, then the shank stopped dead in its tracks. After much brain racking, and measuring, I've determined that Toyota uses a Japanese Standard Metric which has a narrower shank than thread.

So on an M14 OEM bolt, the threads are 14mm and the shank is 13mm. On a normal metric bolt, the shank and thread is 14mm. The hole in my bushing was 14mm and for the normal 14mm shank fit just fine. What this tells me is that Toyota has designed these bushings with the "loose" tolerances. Why? I don't know...maybe less seizing?

Update:
I did contact Whiteline and talked to a helpful representative on the phone. They're going to send my information down under to Whiteline AU so they can take a look at it.
I took some measurements as well. Unfortunately my digital calipers ran out of battery, so going to have to give up some accuracy read these the manual way

With the pn label still on, the OD of the rear cam bolt is a close to 13.5mm:
<a href="https://imgur.com/Omqh2Lw" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Omqh2Lwl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The ID of the rear bushing sleeve is close to 14.5mm:
<a href="https://imgur.com/vWYDRc4" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vWYDRc4l.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The OD of the front cam bolt with the label on is a hair over 19mm:
<a href="https://imgur.com/PdEPOxa" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/PdEPOxal.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The ID of the front bushing sleeve is just about 20mm:
<a href="https://imgur.com/XOAvvio" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/XOAvviol.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

This was also posted to a 4th gen facebook group and [MENTION=124959]Runn4est[/MENTION] over there had brought to my attention that the bolts Toyota uses are a Japanese standard. The thread peaks have a larger diameter than the shank, rather than the thread peaks having the same diameter as the shank on normal bolts. The discrepancy in these measurements could be causing the slop.
I have a picture that trys to show that here:
<a href="https://imgur.com/j5Wj80u"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/j5Wj80ul.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The thread diameter on rear cam bolt is a hair over 14mm, whereas we saw earlier the bolt shank diameter was around 13.5:
<a href="https://imgur.com/YQfEaft" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YQfEaftl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Offcamber said:

I've been running the Whiteline bushings in my OE LCAs for over two years. I don't recall ever testing the cam bolts in the bushing before installation, so I can't say for certain that I did or didn't have any play. Either way, I haven't had any issues that I'm aware of with movement of the LCAs, loss of alignment, etc. One of my quarantine tasks has been to drop the LCAs to check on the cam bolts and re-grease, so it will be a good opportunity for me to check for what you are describing.

I will also confirm which type of grease I used. I'm a big fan of Superlube, but I often try to use a high-temp bearing or marine grease where there may be water ingress. I'll double-check what I used in this case.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this is great info. Glad to hear you didn't have any issues, that makes me feel better. I am interested to hear what you find when you drop the LCAs. Re-greasing is definitely on my maintenance list going forward, the OEM cams are a lot of $$ for what they are. Thanks again!

Runn4est said:

I mentioned this in FB but I'll mention it here to help the info get out. I had trouble replacing my rear lower control arm bolt with a longer bolt after welding on Eimkeith's LLS kit.

The bolt is a M14 bolt, and I bought a new M14 bolt. I went to slide it through the mount holes and the threads screwed through, like the OEM bolt, then the shank stopped dead in its tracks. After much brain racking, and measuring, I've determined that Toyota uses a Japanese Standard Metric which has a narrower shank than thread.

So on an M14 OEM bolt, the threads are 14mm and the shank is 13mm. On a normal metric bolt, the shank and thread is 14mm. The hole in my bushing was 14mm and for the normal 14mm shank fit just fine. What this tells me is that Toyota has designed these bushings with the "loose" tolerances. Why? I don't know...maybe less seizing?

Click to expand...

Thanks, you definitely explained the Japanese metric better than I did. I'm glad you got this documented here as well so others can find it.

I had read somewhere that Toyota assembled these alignment cams dry, so you could be on to something about the tolerance to try and keep everything from seizing. Although I guess if that was their plan, then it did backfire a bit haha

Update:
I followed up with Whiteline Friday afternoon to see if they had heard from the AU technical support. They had not heard anything from down under, but the US support had taken a look at my videos and post here. Still waiting on the AU support response and will update again once I hear.

The representative I talked to was very helpful and explained a few questions that I had. Here are the key takeaways from our conversation:

1. After comparing measurements, the play between the bushing sleeve ID and the cam bolt OD is most likely normal. Most people don't dry fit outside of the vehicle, so they don't normally get questions about play. After the bushing and cams are torqued, then everything should be fine.
2. The rotation in the joint should occur between the bushing ID and the sleeve ID. This I was pretty sure of this, but wanted to double check.
3. Zerks can be drilled to make maintenance and regreasing easier
4. Detailed question posts can help to better explain your problems and can help support to better answer your questions. I did my best to be as detailed as possible, and they liked that

So after having this conversation Friday, I had the confidence to cut everything apart and begin working. I will be taking pictures along the way to do a writeup when I finish. Here are some sneak peak pictures of my current progress:
I already had some normal blades for thinner metal and tried those, but it took me 5 to get through 1 cam. Don't waste your time on the regular saw blades, get the carbide ones.
<a href="https://imgur.com/rCbQK2m"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/rCbQK2mm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

After that, I went and got some Diable Carbide Speed Demon Blades. I used 2 of the carbide blades to plow through the other cams.
<a href="https://imgur.com/aSzCXIT"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/aSzCXITm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/bdzcR2i"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bdzcR2im.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Pushing the bushings out with the jack method
<a href="https://imgur.com/n3gXZSs"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/n3gXZSsm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/sFkwDkm"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/sFkwDkmm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

After pressing the old bushings out, I decided to take a look and see if they had any indication of play in them. It may be hard to see in the pictures, but there is a clear gap between the cam bolt and the bushing sleeve. Of course, its filled with corrosion now, but it is there on the OEM parts as well. This was definitely a relief to see that this is normal
<a href="https://imgur.com/6HZYl8K"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/6HZYl8Kl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/MXTTaWB"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/MXTTaWBl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Which ball joints are you using for replacement?

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montijo505 said:

Which ball joints are you using for replacement?

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Click to expand...

Initially I was thinking that it would be okay since its still feels tight and doesn't click with the 6 and 12 shake, but its seeming more and more like a good idea to do the ball joints while everything is out. I like the idea of the Moog greasable ones, but have heard mixed reviews on Moog. I have also seen some getting good quality ball joints from Napa.

edit: I also asked with Kevin from toothless.t4r on instagram, since he is doing the whitelines right now as well and is a bit more rowdy than me. Hes using the import direct ball joints, so I'm going to look into them as well

Wanted to add another update to this thread:

I got the bushings pushed in this weekend and can hopefully get everything finalized in my time after work this week. I did end up going with the import direct ball joints and they should be going in after paint.

I am also working on making a guide to LCA refreshing/rebuilding with the whitelines and ball joints. Here are some teaser pics of the progress.
Ball Joint: (I used a breaker bar to press these crusty bois out)
<a href="https://imgur.com/GaHFX3J"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/GaHFX3Jm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/L0fzYid"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/L0fzYidm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
Cleaning the LCAs:
<a href="https://imgur.com/rvvlHGm"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/rvvlHGmm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/nA4uHXV"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/nA4uHXVm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/vSnJc3T"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vSnJc3Tm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/edoisZb"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/edoisZbm.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Pressing in the new bushings:
<a href="https://imgur.com/VO05Qso"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/VO05Qsom.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/pAEbkS4"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/pAEbkS4m.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/bAsUqHo"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bAsUqHom.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/dmKztn2"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/dmKztn2m.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>