Where's the beef for 2006-up Toyota...HP and Torque Drops!

Hey all,

I know that there has been many questions recently regarding Toyota (and Honda) power ratings for 2006 vehicles. "Why has power gone down on 2006 4runner?"

Quick Answer: SAE J2723

SAE Engine Rating Standard Prevents Numbers Fudging.

Document SAE J2723 specifies the procedure to be used for a manufacturer to certify the net power and torque rating of a production engine according to SAE J1349 or the gross engine power of a production engine according to SAE J1995. Manufacturers who advertise their engine power and torque ratings as Certified to SAE J1349 or SAE J1995 shall follow this procedure. Certification of engine power and torque to SAE J1349 or SAE J1995 is VOLUNTARY; however, this power certification process is mandatory for those advertising power ratings as "Certified to SAE J1349".

READ NEXT POSTS for clearer explanation....

More info:

General Motors has become the first manufacturer to certify an engine's power and torque ratings using a newly adopted SAE standard (J2723), James Queen, GM Vice President, Global Engineering, announced during his keynote address at the SAE World Congress and Exhibition in April 2005. The world's largest automaker plans to certify all of its engines to the voluntary standard, and is encouraging its competitors to do the same. The LS7 engine for the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 was certified under the new standard this month. The 7.0-L V8 unit produces 505 hp (377 kW) at 6300 rpm and 470 lboft (637 Nom) at 4800 rpm.

"The new voluntary SAE power and torque certification procedure ensures fair, accurate ratings for horsepower and torque as it uses third-party certification," said Queen. "SAE technical standards level the playing field, and this certification procedure is just the latest example of the value SAE has offered over the past century." To tout power and torque ratings as "SAE-certified," engine manufacturers must have an SAE qualified witness watch over the entire testing procedure to ensure that it is conducted in conformity to SAE standard J1349. Third-party witnessing is the main provision of J2723. An existing SAE standard, J1349, spells out how the actual testing is to be done. J1349 was updated last year to eliminate some ambiguities that allowed engine makers to cite power and torque ratings higher than the engine's actual capabilities. Engine makers are free to cite power and torque figures drived from testing conducted outside the scope of the SAE standards, but they may not claim the figures are SAE-certifed.

Many manufacturers (GM, Toyota, Honda) began switching to the new rating immediately, often with surprising results. The rated output of Cadillac's Northstar V8 jumped from 440 hp (328 kW) to 469 hp (350 kW) under the new tests, while the rating for Toyota's Camry 3.0 L 1MZ-FE V6 fell from 210 hp (157 kW) to 190 hp (142 kW). The first engine certified under the new program was the 7.0 L LS7 used in the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06. Certified power rose slightly from 500 hp (373 kW) to 505 hp (377 kW).

DETROIT - The Society of Automotive Engineers announces at its annual World Congress here significant new updates to improve the accuracy of the test standard auto makers have used for more than 30 years to rate the power and torque of light-vehicle engines in North America.

Equally important, the SAE also is introducing an all-new, voluntary test procedure designed to ensure the engine horsepower and torque figures derived from the new standard are more reliable and common across the industry.

David Lancaster, General Motors Corp. technical fellow-GM Powertrain, and a chairman of the SAE committee responsible for revising the standards, says engines tested under the new 2-stage system will list horsepower and torque figures with a new qualifier: SAE

Basically, from what i read, only Toyota, Honda, and GM are publicly committed to the new SAE J2723.

Ford and DCX (MB, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep) are NOT following this optional procedure at this time. Nissan is still deciding.

Facts to ponder:
Honda and Toyota numbers got slashed significantly. GM numbers are still in the ballpark to their previous claim...a few ratings actually went UP with the new procedure!

So, this begs the question...have Toyota and Honda overstated/"fudged" their numbers in the past????

Yes, you can claim that the aftermarket tuners for Honda/Toyota should have picked this up with the aftermarket dynos, as they did with Mazda Miata and Ford Mustang Cobra. Were the tuners just blowing it off as "parasitic powertrain loss"??? You gotta wonder....

Of course, the fact that Ford and DCX are refusing to publicly commit to this new SAE J2723 is not comforting...and somewhat suspicious. Again, remember Miata and Cobra fiasco?!

You decide...just food for thought.

So the way I read this, my 2003 V8 will have more power now - right!? LOL (And with pin stripping it'll go 15 MPH faster!) Actually, a Chevy owner told me it would run better if I put ground up rice in the tank - anything to that?

TeryT said:

So the way I read this, my 2003 V8 will have more power now - right!?

Click to expand...

Huh?...or are you joking?? If you're not joking, then the answer is, "No."

Thai said:

Huh?...or are you joking?? If you're not joking, then the answer is, "No."

Click to expand...

Shoot! After greasing up my muffler bearings didn't get me more power - I thought this would for sure!:arrow:

TeryT said:

Actually, a Chevy owner told me it would run better if I put ground up rice in the tank - anything to that?

Click to expand...

yeah, ground up rice will give you a 5bhp gain, its what all the civics do, didnt you know that... jeesh!

The salesman at the dealership (when asked about Tundra hp drop) said Toyota lowered hp to prevent competition for the new engine and heavy duty model coming out next year. This is also the same dealership who also told me no 06 Runners from Toyota til January (the dealership 20 miles away has a dozen)