First Heavy long tow with boat and the 4Runner

I don't post normally unless I have a problem but thought I would post my recent experience pulling at the limits of the 4Runner.

When I bought my 4Runner 3 years ago, it was the perfect SUV for towing our 19' Stingray bowrider (about 3,000lbs with trailer). Besides local moves, we pulled it once to Lake George 5 hours through the mountains and it did amazing! No problem with speed/ got decent MPG's, felt very confident.

We upgraded about 2 years ago to a 20' Wellcraft Excalibur, MUCH heavier boat (3,600-4,000lbs just the boat). It came with a single axle trailer that was a handful just going local, walked all over the road and it was terrifying to tow.

I upgraded trailers this year to a brand new dual axle aluminum with bunks and disc brakes (1 axle). It completely took care of the handling problems but now I have a 5,000 lb rig.

We decided to venture to another lake about 60 miles away recently I was VERY hesitant as it was 90+ degrees outside and we were camping, 4Runner was loaded with gear, boat full of 50 gallons of fuel, mountain roads ahead. I swapped out my rusty factory hitch last year for a Curt frame hitch, had my coolant flushed, trans fluid flushed/ replaced but never got around to installing the aux trans cooler I wanted to do. Anyways- off we went. I kept the AC off- my passengers were not happy but I needed all the HP I could get, 3rd and 4th gear always, all was good on flat 65-70MPH, winding road, rolling hills and stopping, but uphill and the mountains were no good! I encountered one VERY long onramp (1/2 mile uphill) that I didn't want to floor it- but we didn't break 25 MPH till it leveled off. Not comforting! The local roads were horrible and EXTREMELY steep to get out of but we made it with momentum.

Overall, I don't know if I'm going to do this again unless I can plot out a very flat trip everywhere. My boat is aerodynamic, low and well balanced so I don't know how others are towing heavy Travel Trailers with the V6..

Thought I would share as it doesn't seem like many pull with the V6 on here.

-Chris

I used my 08 v6 for towing for the first time today. Trailer and load was about 3500 lbs. It felt fine on the flat roads but a little lacking on the hills. I didn't expect it to behave like the trailer wasn't there, but I think the v8 is obviously the engine of choice for anything heavier.

I towed a 5,000 lb (filled) uhaul across country and the V6 handled it alright. It had trouble in the high Rockies with maintaining speed but that is to be expected climbing to 10,000 ft (hell without a trailer it is the same). Kept the rpms between 3-4k and it made it just fine. If you're doing it regularly, may be time for a V8

I bought my 4runner to tow my wannabe racecar. Its 2350lbs plus the big tex car hauler is 1850lbs. 4000+ lbs to Houston, Colorado, OKC, Kansas running the IFO circuit. Only problems I have are stopping as my trailer has no brakes. I heart my V6, but going V8 turbo as my next daily!

V8 ftw

Billynath1988 said:

V8 ftw

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Actually V8 turbo for the win!!!!

97hb said:

Actually V8 turbo for the win!!!!

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Yes that is a true statement

My '05 is just at 97K miles and in SUPER clean condition and well maintained so I'm thinking if we are going to do this again/ go further, it's time for a new vehicle. Don't need to invite the head gasket leak/ trans issues into this SUV.
Disappointing Toyota abandoned the V8 and the Lexus GX is WAY too much money used!
Do others not use A/C when towing heavy or drive hard? I've driven alot of 5th gens at my old work and they don't feel any more powerful however I look at the 5th gen forum and people are pulling all kinds of trailers with them it seems Maybe my performance expectations are too high.

A quick question on towing, if I may...

I'm usually only pulling 1000-1500 lbs., but I still use 4th gear instead of D.
Should the tranny be going into lockup in 4th? I don't think mine is... :shrug:

I feel like there is something wrong. While 5k in weight is a lot, it shouldn't be that bad. I pulled with ~3500 lb trailer with mine. I thought it was great, because I grew up pulling a big tex around with a T100, that was slow.

I really wonder if your trailer brake was slightly dragging. I'd double check them or pull the boat around a bit and see if they have excessive heat in them.

You should be ok running the a/c, maybe kill it on the hills. Also running premium will help while towing.

Also you might need to do the gear shifting for it, I always feel like the transmission is looking for fuel economy and not letting the engine get to the higher torque / horsepower above 3500k rpm while towing. (Yes even if the shiftier is placed in 4th.)

http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/63-9023_dyno.pdf

Good luck, maybe a Tundra is your future.

OP, you don't say what RPM's you were running the engine at, but one mistake people often make is shying away from higher rpms. Toyota engines are extremely well balanced and engineered, and will run at 4000+ rpm all day without a problem, and that's where it makes maximum horsepower. All else being equal, horsepower is proportional to rpm, so if your engine makes 240 hp at 4500 rpm, it only makes 160 hp at 3000 rpm.

You mention the long on-ramp where "you didn't want to floor it". Why not? That's what the 2nd half of the pedal travel is for. Let your engine do what it was designed to do - don't reign it in artificially.

Also, AC takes 5 hp or so, so in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter much if you have it on or off.

Biggest thing to worry about is transmission temperature. In 3rd gear and below, the torque converter lockup isn't active, so there's more slippage and consequently more heat build up. Toyota warns about that in the manual. If I were regularly towing 5000 lbs, I would install a cooler and a temp gauge on the transmission.

Finally, on the really steep local roads, don't hesitate to shift into 4Lo. As long as the center diff is not locked, you can run in 4Lo on pavement just like you can in 4Hi, and it will give you a bunch more starting and uphill torque. Your top speed will be limited to about 30mph, but that may be adequate for such roads.

collierunner said:

I feel like there is something wrong. While 5k in weight is a lot, it shouldn't be that bad. I pulled with ~3500 lb trailer with mine. I thought it was great, because I grew up pulling a big tex around with a T100, that was slow.

I really wonder if your trailer brake was slightly dragging. I'd double check them or pull the boat around a bit and see if they have excessive heat in them.

You should be ok running the a/c, maybe kill it on the hills. Also running premium will help while towing.

Also you might need to do the gear shifting for it, I always feel like the transmission is looking for fuel economy and not letting the engine get to the higher torque / horsepower above 3500k rpm while towing. (Yes even if the shiftier is placed in 4th.)
.

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RonJR said:

OP, you don't say what RPM's you were running the engine at, but one mistake people often make is shying away from higher rpms. Toyota engines are extremely well balanced and engineered, and will run at 4000+ rpm all day without a problem, and that's where it makes maximum horsepower. All else being equal, horsepower is proportional to rpm, so if your engine makes 240 hp at 4500 rpm, it only makes 160 hp at 3000 rpm.

You mention the long on-ramp where "you didn't want to floor it". Why not? That's what the 2nd half of the pedal travel is for. Let your engine do what it was designed to do - don't reign it in artificially.

Also, AC takes 5 hp or so, so in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter much if you have it on or off.

Biggest thing to worry about is transmission temperature. In 3rd gear and below, the torque converter lockup isn't active, so there's more slippage and consequently more heat build up. Toyota warns about that in the manual. If I were regularly towing 5000 lbs, I would install a cooler and a temp gauge on the transmission.

Finally, on the really steep local roads, don't hesitate to shift into 4Lo. As long as the center diff is not locked, you can run in 4Lo on pavement just like you can in 4Hi, and it will give you a bunch more starting and uphill torque. Your top speed will be limited to about 30mph, but that may be adequate for such roads.

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I think 240 HP has its limits, I've been towing boats since getting my license so I never selected OD, shifted between 3rd and 4th as needed and 2nd on a few of the down hills. I did use premium fuel too. It's great except for the really steep hills, it just doesn't like it and looses speed fast despite momentum and a heavy foot.
I have used 4x4 and 4LO to get out of tough areas and excessively steep slippery ramps, I love how we can have an open differential/ 4LO, SUPER helpful on ramps with a sharp turn at the top and maneuvering in tight areas.
I'm getting new tires put on in the next week so I'm going to have my mechanic put in the aux trans cooler so I'm a little more protected if I venture out again.

My biggest fear was trying to keep heat down, I had alot of heat soak and as it was humid 90* day with the boat and terrain I didn't want to push it too hard, I figured if I can't get where I need to be with 75% throttle, that little extra isn't going to help things. Other than power- It's a great tow vehicle. This is on par with the 4.8L Tahoe we had before.
I ran up to 4500/5000 RPM's a few times as needed.

collierunner, the difference between our old boat which was 3,500 loaded and this one is night and day- 1,500 lbs makes a huge difference, I barely felt the 3,500lb load through the hills. twice before I've pulled 7K with the 4Runner locally and that extra 2k is just overwhelming for the 4Runner on any hills. I've seen a few posts referencing somewhere Toyota says this SUV is capable of 6,400 lbs with an upgraded trans cooler and hitch- I don't think I'd want to try that for any distance.

At the moment, and being under 100K still I'm debating selling before It crosses over :noidea:

There's no doubt 5000 lbs is a heavy load for a V6 4runner, and will definitely slow it down. Assuming your 4runner weighs 4400 lbs loaded, that's 9400 lbs total, or about 39 lbs/horsepower assuming 240 hp from the V6.

By comparison, I've pulled my 2300 lb pop-up behind my '94 150hp 3.0 V6. That works out to about 43 lbs/hp, or somewhat worse than your situation. I've been able to hold 40mph going up Monarch pass in southern Colorado (8 miles of 7% at 11,000 feet), which I consider acceptable for the situation. Obviously faster is simply out of the question. It depends on your expectations.

Basically, when your load gets above about 30-35 lbs/horsepower, you transition from driving it like a car to driving it like a loaded truck. I've driven a fair amount of heavy trucks and underpowered busses in my past, and I know what it's like to spend 20-30 minutes on a hill. You just have to gear down, settle in, and enjoy the scenery. Different mindset, but ultimately you still get to the top.

RonJR said:

OP, you don't say what RPM's you were running the engine at, but one mistake people often make is shying away from higher rpms. Toyota engines are extremely well balanced and engineered, and will run at 4000+ rpm all day without a problem, and that's where it makes maximum horsepower. All else being equal, horsepower is proportional to rpm, so if your engine makes 240 hp at 4500 rpm, it only makes 160 hp at 3000 rpm.

You mention the long on-ramp where "you didn't want to floor it". Why not? That's what the 2nd half of the pedal travel is for. Let your engine do what it was designed to do - don't reign it in artificially.

Also, AC takes 5 hp or so, so in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter much if you have it on or off.

Biggest thing to worry about is transmission temperature. In 3rd gear and below, the torque converter lockup isn't active, so there's more slippage and consequently more heat build up. Toyota warns about that in the manual. If I were regularly towing 5000 lbs, I would install a cooler and a temp gauge on the transmission.

Finally, on the really steep local roads, don't hesitate to shift into 4Lo. As long as the center diff is not locked, you can run in 4Lo on pavement just like you can in 4Hi, and it will give you a bunch more starting and uphill torque. Your top speed will be limited to about 30mph, but that may be adequate for such roads.

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I was going to post about the same thing. Most people are afraid to let the engine rpm be above a certain level for some reason. Let the engine work and do its thing. Its designed to run all day at max RPM power level. Your never going to hurt that engine running it at any RPM Toyota designed it to be ran at. You think those truckers in the mountains are going slow to keep the RPM low through the mountains? Nope. They are floored in low gear with max boost applied for long periods. Let that engine work and do its thing. Don't be afraid to wind it out.

MrRoo said:

I was going to post about the same thing. Most people are afraid to let the engine rpm be above a certain level for some reason. Let the engine work and do its thing. Its designed to run all day at max RPM power level. Your never going to hurt that engine running it at any RPM Toyota designed it to be ran at. You think those truckers in the mountains are going slow to keep the RPM low through the mountains? Nope. They are floored in low gear with max boost applied for long periods. Let that engine work and do its thing. Don't be afraid to wind it out.

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Meanwhile, two years later....

I'd add to get a guage that gives you a reading on your transmission temp.

I bought an ultra guage blue. It plugs into the obdc II port on the truck, and connects to a phone app via bluetooth. With it, I can monitor my transmission temp, and see when the torque converter is locked and when it's open.

I also added a 2nd transmission cooler -- even though I have a factory one too.
Adding the 2nd trans cooler easily lowers my trans temp by another 30 degrees F.

Towing can be hard on a transmission, and I like the peace of mind in knowing and monitoring my transmission temp. In a few situations, when my trans temp was higher than I'd like, I was able to modify my driving style for a short period of time to bring the temp back down.

That's my $0.02 !!! (1 penny for each year since the OP.) :high5: