ddicosmo
New member
3 days ago, I purchased 4 new Falken Wildpeak AT3 tires for my 2008 4runner at Town Faire Tire. I had them mounted, balanced and had a 4 wheel alignment done (I don't know why they charge for a 4 wheel alignment when they can't adjust the rear...). When I went to pay, the guy at the desk told me that the results would show red as they could not do the camber adjustments due to the cam bolts being seized. They were able to do the rest of the alignment and provided me with the results (see below). He suggested I take it to a mechanic to have them remove the cam bolts and then bring it back and they would redo the alignment again for free. I left there a bit worried as I had just bought brand new tires and the alignment was off. 3 days later, I had an appointment at a local Toyota/Lexus specialist that I recently started going to, for a coolant flush and their 4x4 service (ie.transfer case fluids, chassis lube, etc.). While there, I decided to have them do a 4 wheel alignment to see if they would be able to get the cam bolts off and compare the results with TFT. They ended up telling me the same thing that TFT told me; the cam bolts were seized. The manager told me that even though the cam bolts were seized, he suggested leaving them as is and it won't be a problem because the camber for the left front was just a hair off at -1.0 and this would not affect the tires. After the service at the Toyota/Lexus specialist, when I got home, I compared the results between the two alignments. Based on the output of the reports, it appears that both places used the exact same alignment machine/software. BUT, what really struck me as unusual was how much difference there was between the results from when I left TFT (their "Current Measurements") vs. the results that the Toyota specialty shop got before they did their alignment (their "Before Measurements"). There were some MAJOR discrepencies. For example, TFT had the left front Caster RED at 4.2 and the left front Toe GREEN at 0.05. The Toyota shop had the left front Caster GREEN at 2.8 and the Toe RED at -0.06. What's going on here? I would expect these to be practically the same!
Let me explain....Since there have been only 2 days between the two alignments (NOTE: I have driven the 4runner like a baby the two days since getting the new tires, making sure not to hit any potholes or bumps, etc.), there should be absolutely no reason that the values would be this far off from each other. If anything, the values should be almost identical (other than very minor variances due to calibration, human error, etc.). What I saw made absolutely no sense to me. It has raised more questions and is making me feel very uneasy about this whole thing. Based on my very limited knowledge and experience with alignments, alignment machines and the automotive repair industry, my gut feeling is that one of these issues had to have happened in order to explain this:
1 - HUMAN ERROR - One (or both) of the alignments are not truly valid due to human error. I don't know how the tech's do these but is it possible to mess this whole computerized alignment thing up? Would it even be possible that a human could mess this up to the point where there are no checks and balances from the computer/software or the business?
2 - MAJOR CALIBRATION ISSUE - One (or both) of the alignment machines could be drastically off calibration wise. Don't these machines have to be calibrated periodically? How accurate are they?
3 - DISHONEST SHOP - One (or both) of the places is potentially shady and did not really do the work as advertised by the results. I really don't want to believe this but could this be a possibility? Is it even possible for an alignment tech to fudge or override the results on these machines? Again, what checks and balances are there?
4 - MAJOR SUSPENSION ISSUES - Finally, the last guess would be that my 4runner has serious suspension or tire issues. How could driving it just a couple days on baby smooth roads throw off the alignment this much? I really doubt this theory... I baby this vehicle and there are absolutely no symptoms or signs that would indicate any issue with the suspension. In addition, I've never driven it offroad and only drive it 10 miles to work and back. I have the vehicle serviced on a regular basis and no one has ever mentioned any suspension issues to me. So this should be out of the question.
With that said, I'm really at a loss to explain why there is such a big discrepancy in the results from two 4-wheel alignments that occurred within 3 days of each other. I would really be interested if anyone with alignment experience could chime in and let me know what they think. Hopefully, I can get to the bottom of this and put my mind at ease. Thanks,
Dave.
Let me explain....Since there have been only 2 days between the two alignments (NOTE: I have driven the 4runner like a baby the two days since getting the new tires, making sure not to hit any potholes or bumps, etc.), there should be absolutely no reason that the values would be this far off from each other. If anything, the values should be almost identical (other than very minor variances due to calibration, human error, etc.). What I saw made absolutely no sense to me. It has raised more questions and is making me feel very uneasy about this whole thing. Based on my very limited knowledge and experience with alignments, alignment machines and the automotive repair industry, my gut feeling is that one of these issues had to have happened in order to explain this:
1 - HUMAN ERROR - One (or both) of the alignments are not truly valid due to human error. I don't know how the tech's do these but is it possible to mess this whole computerized alignment thing up? Would it even be possible that a human could mess this up to the point where there are no checks and balances from the computer/software or the business?
2 - MAJOR CALIBRATION ISSUE - One (or both) of the alignment machines could be drastically off calibration wise. Don't these machines have to be calibrated periodically? How accurate are they?
3 - DISHONEST SHOP - One (or both) of the places is potentially shady and did not really do the work as advertised by the results. I really don't want to believe this but could this be a possibility? Is it even possible for an alignment tech to fudge or override the results on these machines? Again, what checks and balances are there?
4 - MAJOR SUSPENSION ISSUES - Finally, the last guess would be that my 4runner has serious suspension or tire issues. How could driving it just a couple days on baby smooth roads throw off the alignment this much? I really doubt this theory... I baby this vehicle and there are absolutely no symptoms or signs that would indicate any issue with the suspension. In addition, I've never driven it offroad and only drive it 10 miles to work and back. I have the vehicle serviced on a regular basis and no one has ever mentioned any suspension issues to me. So this should be out of the question.
With that said, I'm really at a loss to explain why there is such a big discrepancy in the results from two 4-wheel alignments that occurred within 3 days of each other. I would really be interested if anyone with alignment experience could chime in and let me know what they think. Hopefully, I can get to the bottom of this and put my mind at ease. Thanks,
Dave.
