Which LED or HID work and don't work in 2010-2013 reflector type headlights

Which LED or HID work and don't work in 2010-2013 low beam reflector type headlights

There was a thread (unfortunately deleted by OP probably) about installation of LED IMPORT USA bulbs as low beam in 2012 4Runner. I had to disagree with OP who recommended these bulbs. From the pictures "before" and "after" we could easy that after installing these bulbs low beam lost the cut off and obviously would blind other drivers. It's a pity the OP removed all pictures (very valuable for comparison) leaving only two (see below) showing clearly the main flaw in Led bulb application. Looking at the photos you can see that LED bulbs do not produce cut off like halogen bulbs do, what means these LED lights will be blinding not only the drivers on the oncoming traffic but also the guy in front (the dimming mirror will not help this poor guy).


In my research I found that there are two issues related to LED chips vs halogen filament that might screw up the projection. Both are related to the fact that the light source (filament) in standard halogen bulb is exactly at the center of the bulb and has 360 degree even projection to the side.

1. Led chips are usually located on both sides of flat mounting blade, so the light source will never be exactly at the center of the bulb. So there are two light sources a little bit off the center of the bulb. The low beam projection cut-off may be screwed up by that.

2. Each chips have roughly 120 degree projection angle (lambertian), so there is almost no light in the surface extending the "blade". This can create "black spots" in the projection.

While some projector type housings are not sensitive to these problems, all reflection type housings I heard of don't work correctly with LED bulbs on low beam.

So I'm calling all you guys who had experience with LED or HID bulbs installed in 2010-2013 4Runner low beam headlights. Show me your projection, if the cut-off is there (or maybe better), and the lighting area is even or better than the stock halogen bulbs. I am looking only for 2010-1013 reflector type headlights, not 2014+ projectors. For the reference here is the cut-off line from stock halogen bulbs.



An for the first there is a comparison photo of LED IMPORT USA bulbs (from the thread deleted by OP)

I was just looking for that thread, as I wanted to pick up those reverse lights he posted. I think I fond them so no worries on that.

This topic comes up a bunch.....It seems like all of the guys who are lighting nerds (ie, know way more than I do on the subject) say the same thing. LED's and HID's are meant for projector housings, which us 5.0 guys don't have and even the 5.5 guys have projectors designed for halogens. I have yet so see pics of an aftermarket HID or LED installed where there was a good cutoff from the stock housings in a 5.0. They were designed specifically for the halogen bulbs and nothong else. The easiest and cheapest light upgrade for us is explained in this thread. I have done it my self and for the price and work level involved, it is awesome. A ton more usable lights, and no crazy glare. Otherwise, you need to get a quality aftermarket conversion.

FrontRange4Runner said:

I was just looking for that thread, as I wanted to pick up those reverse lights he posted. I think I fond them so no worries on that.

This topic comes up a bunch.....It seems like all of the guys who are lighting nerds (ie, know way more than I do on the subject) say the same thing. LED's and HID's are meant for projector housings, which us 5.0 guys don't have and even the 5.5 guys have projectors designed for halogens. I have yet so see pics of an aftermarket HID or LED installed where there was a good cutoff from the stock housings in a 5.0. They were designed specifically for the halogen bulbs and nothong else. The easiest and cheapest light upgrade for us is explained in this thread. I have done it my self and for the price and work level involved, it is awesome. A ton more usable lights, and no crazy glare. Otherwise, you need to get a quality aftermarket conversion.

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Reverse light info can be found here... Same ones he used...

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...riving-adventuring-mtn4rnr-3.html#post2206840

MTN4RNR said:

Reverse light info can be found here... Same ones he used...

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...riving-adventuring-mtn4rnr-3.html#post2206840

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Thanks man! Looks like I got the correct ones.

I'm not a 5g owner but lighting has been a hobby of mine since I bought a HID kit back in 2000 for my Tundra. I'm currently experimenting with a LED conversion for reflector headlights.

[MENTION=113429]RysiuM[/MENTION] when looking directly at the headlights (might want to wear sunglasses or a welding helmet to dim the light) what areas of the reflector are illuminated? Is it basically the upper half and a "pie cut" from the center of the circle to about 4 o'clock?

And yes the 921 LEDs in the deleted thread are Philips Visions. I use them for my 3rd-gen 4Runner front parking lights and our 1st-gen Tundra reverse lights. Unfortunately due to the smaller reflector/lens on my 4Runner the 921 LEDs in reverse lights didn't make an improvement but work great on the Tundra. $19.99 @ Pep Boys but if ordered online for store pickup they're $13.99.

There are some custom made t4r 5.0 projectors on ebay right now......for $790.

FrontRange4Runner said:

I was just looking for that thread, as I wanted to pick up those reverse lights he posted.

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This is stupid for T4Forum to allow delete the entire topic with all posts written by other members then OP. So much good information was lost with one click of the button. If I was OP and I did not like what I wrote, I would correct my own posts, not delete other people's writing. Good thing was that my browser captured most of the thread in the cache so I did not loose everything I wrote.

So on the topic of Philips LED Backup I bought the other bulb recommended on this topic. For $6.83 I bought "2X Error Free T15/T10 High Power 15W LED Backup Reverse High Stop Light 921 912" on ebay for testing, as they were claimed to be real hot topic:

The eBay bulbs measured at .899A @ 13.14V or 11.81W, 1417lm using the 120lm/W. I also checked the Philips bulbs since I have a set and they are .241A @ 13.14V or 3.17W, 380lm. You are right that the eBay bulbs are overstated, but still significantly higher wattage and lm output than the Philips.

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My experience with these bulbs is quite different. As I expected, they are way overrated and the description is total BS. At least comparing to what I got.

The bulbs I got take 0.3A each at 12W (measured), what puts them into 3.6W, less than 1/4 of claimed power. They have MB6F bridge rectifier (reverse polarity protection) which has 1V voltage drop (per datasheet), so really it is only 11V delivered to LED driver (4211 buck type constant current Led Driver). Led driver is very efficient (about 92% efficiency per datasheet). So from simple calculation 11V*0.3A*0.92 = 3.036W - that is the power that actually goes to LED chips. Assuming 120lm/W the bulb will give about 365 lumens, not even close to 825-900 lumens as they claim in the ebay auction description.

So I am disappointed with the result, but I would lie if I say I wasn't expecting that. Anyway I gave the chance to ebay seller to comment on that, maybe he sent me the wrong item (the driver on ebay item pictures looks a bit different from what I have). I'm waiting for his response.

Now back to low beam topic, I am aware of H11 to H9 conversion, which gives extra 700+ lumens at the cost of 10W and half of the lifespan. I also know about converting headlights to projection style by some hacking and inserting projector unit. This is not what this thread I like to be about. It may actually die fast with just one sentence: "There is no LED or HID solution available", but then I would like you guys also to share your negative experience, for others "How to not do it". It may save some guys from potential modification in the bad way.

RysiuM said:

If I was OP and I did not like what I wrote, I would correct my own posts, not delete other people's writing.
.

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C'mon, you know as well as I that he deleted that because he got a lot of criticism. Perhaps he did the smart thing, before it descended further.

As to resurrecting the topic of using reflectors with other-than-halogen bulbs .......

:deadhorse:

philsey said:

As to resurrecting the topic of using reflectors with other-than-halogen bulbs .......

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From your signature I guess it is "HID LS460-R @ 55w projector retrofit". Right?

Plain and simple, if you run LEDs or HIDs with anything other than a proper projector retrofit, you will be forever referred to as "that dickhead with the blinding lights."

RysiuM said:

From your signature I guess it is "HID LS460-R @ 55w projector retrofit". Right?

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Huh?

RysiuM said:

My experience with these bulbs is quite different....So I am disappointed with the result...

It may actually die fast with just one sentence: "There is no LED or HID solution available"

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Bummer, Hopefully I am happy with the result. It's a bummer that the thread was deleted because there was definitely some good info in there. I may have made a slightly dickheadish comment in that thread at some point last night, so if I did, my apologizes to [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION]. Beer and bad lighting cutoff makes me angry apparently.

:focus: As to your original question, There is no proper, plug and play LED or HID solution available. If there were, these lighting threads would end much differently than they do now. Unfortunately, if you want a high quality lighting solution, you have to pay the big bucks for it.

philsey said:

C'mon, you know as well as I that he deleted that because he got a lot of criticism. Perhaps he did the smart thing, before it descended further.

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I'm not really a fan of that, it's a public forum.

FrontRange4Runner said:

Bummer, Hopefully I am happy with the result. It's a bummer that the thread was deleted because there was definitely some good info in there. I may have made a slightly dickheadish comment in that thread at some point last night, so if I did, my apologizes to [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION]. Beer and bad lighting cutoff makes me angry apparently.

:focus: As to your original question, There is no proper, plug and play LED or HID solution available. If there were, these lighting threads would end much differently than they do now. Unfortunately, if you want a high quality lighting solution, you have to pay the big bucks for it.

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I hate when I miss controversy.

To the OP, I ran H9's for awhile, took them out when I lifted my truck, just didn't want to be a jerk. As it is I get blinded fairly often from folks with aftermarket HID lighting. Heck I've even had a 14+ Trail behind me with HID in his projector, it freaking sucked! There are plenty of folks that don't care I guess, I never try to flash these people but based on how many people comment "never been flashed" maybe I should.

Hellamatic said:

Plain and simple, if you run LEDs or HIDs with anything other than a proper projector retrofit, you will be forever referred to as "that dickhead with the blinding lights."

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There is on positive thing in 4R low beam - it has one way bulb (one filament per bulb, unlike for example H4 that has to deal with two light sources.

Because in low beam we may use only the top part of reflector (to shine down) it will be enough to have a LED chip on one side of the "blade". Now if that blade is asymmetrical such as the LED chip is exactly at the center of the housing (exactly where the original halogen filament would be) such bulb has a chance to produce usable cut off. Because as soon as the second LED chip is introduced on the other side of the blade, the cut off is screwed up big time.

Good quality HID bulbs has also good chance to replace halogen H9 for low beam. But it has to be really good, high precision bulb, not China knock-off. Still yet to discover.anda:

blakjack23 said:

There are some custom made t4r 5.0 projectors on ebay right now......for $790.

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I saw that - very custom job. Of course doable by using projection unit (available for 200-300 bucks per pair) and some custom engineering. The total cost looks about right too ($300 for projectors + $200+ for stock lamps + labor and engineering), but I'm still looking for possible lower cost retrofit. Saying that, by lower cost I don't mean to compromising the cut-off or introducing "dark spots".

philsey said:

Huh?

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I'm sorry - I saw the picture


and assumed it was taken from the truck described in your signature (BTW I would love to have such cut-off in my 2012 SR5). BTW after reading the "deleted" thread I don't think the subject is "dead horse". There are still many T4R owners, who require education on the lighting "the proper way".

RysiuM said:

I'm sorry - I saw the picture and assumed it was taken from the truck described in your signature (BTW I would love to have such cut-off in my 2012 SR5).

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Well, yes and no. Right truck, previous retrofit (FX-Rs). Poor picture but I felt the need to show what properly retrofitted headlights look like. It's not all about the cutoff either; the beautiful clean light and the terrific spread too. The LS's are even better, but I spent a $hit-ton to get from 9/10 to 10/10.

RysiuM said:

BTW after reading the "deleted" thread I don't think the subject is "dead horse". There are still many T4R owners, who require education on the lighting "the proper way".

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Perhaps. I just felt that by now we should have realized that reflectors don't work properly with any light source other than a halogen bulb.

blakjack23 said:

There are some custom made t4r 5.0 projectors on ebay right now......for $790.

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Link please... I couldn't find them. Curious.

philsey said:

Link please... I couldn't find them. Curious.

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here they are...

2010 2013 Toyota 4Runner Depo Headlights LH RH with Oracle Colorshift RGB Halos | eBay

i was looking for that thread last night and was wondering why it came up in search, but not when i clicked on the links.

anywho, i slapped in those Philips 921s last night. Seem marginally better. I'd say they were worth $20 as I thought the stock bulbs were rather dim.

So what is the general consensus for a proper HID retrofit for 2014+ 4Runners with the stock projector headlights? I've been reading as much as I can about the possible solutions, and it seems the biggest limiting factor is the side mount bulb and the permaseal they use on the headlights. It seems like the Lexus GS projectors seem to be a easy choice without much modification, or the RX350 kit. But Lightwerks and TRS don't want anything to do with our headlights due to how complicated it is.

Coming from 2 previous vehicles with factory HID's, I just hate the stock halogen projector we have on our cars. Currently running the XenonDepot H11 LEDs right now, and it works pretty well as far as a clean cutoff. But much is to be desired and I may just go with a halogen H9 mod.

I have installed the cheapo eBay sourced backup LED bulbs yesterday night.

The light output is not bad - probably the same as you may expect from 3W Phillips and may be worth paying 3.5 dollars per bulb. It is not 15W but because I don't have a backup camera I don't see a $hit anyway (only what I can see in my side mirrors), so ... I bought these bulbs just for testing so instead throwing them away, (I was not going to return them), they can stay as my backup lights saving electricity (3W versus stock 16W). It is direct replacement and took less than a minute to swap stock bulb for these.

I don't have a picture as taking a picture pointing at the backup lights is completely pointless, and there is nothing on my driveway to shine at. So the bottom line, I treat them as "for the cool white look". Maybe when I add a backup camera one day I will appreciate the change, but now it's just for show.

philsey said:

Perhaps. I just felt that by now we should have realized that reflectors don't work properly with any light source other than a halogen bulb.

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hey, don't bury that dead horse yet :rip:. This is where all inventions come from :becky: