Car companies stand to make billions by charging you monthly fees for add-on features

Apparently there has been a lot of pushback on this subscription idea; so manufacturers are giving it a second thought. They could very well loose sales and all they need is one to not do it to gain sales. Plus it can adversely affect the used car market. The idea is to offer these "options" free for a time - like they do now with the NAV; and then start charging later after the trial period. It would be a deal breaker for me on principal alone.

2021nightshade4x4 said:

The Range Rover’s “Take a break” alert with the coffee cup insults my normal, alert driving. God forbid if it shuts me down on the interstate.

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Or crossing a railroad track with a train coming.

Before long, Zuckerberg will have us driving woke in the left lane.

I would say that when it comes to the 4Runner, Toyota shot themselves in the foot on this one. I would consider paying the monthly fee to have Remote Start/Remote Connect/Service Connect. But they don't even give me the option on our ORP to pay them more money, it's only available on the Ltd and Pro. Stoopid!

Something_Awesome said:

and you can continue to use remote start if the feature was installed, whether you subscribe or not.

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This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.

DAW89446 said:

The article linked mentioned a subscription for heated seats. Subscriptions for things like that are a deal killer for me. Such are optional equipment, and if I paid for that optional equipment, it is mine to use as I please. If I have to pay to use what I already bought, that is criminal on the part of the manufacturer, in my opinion. What is next? Pay to start your car with your own key? Pay to turn on the AM and FM radio? Pay to play your own CD? Pay to roll down your window? Pay to use the heater or AC?

I’m a senior and my ‘12 Subaru Outback and ‘18 SR5 are not connected and very likely will be my last vehicles.

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If they start charging for an actual feature like heated seats, or god forbid power windows, I think the backlash would be pretty tremendous. Charging for extras like remote start don't seem THAT bad by comparison.

bootown said:

This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.

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That's correct, even the remote start with fob is disabled if you don't pay Toyota their annual ransom to keep it activated.

RobS10 said:

If they start charging for an actual feature like heated seats, or god forbid power windows, I think the backlash would be pretty tremendous. Charging for extras like remote start don't seem THAT bad by comparison.

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I think this technology is/will be deployed to the EV market heavily even more in the coming years. A base car that is sold and extras added on for a monthly subscription fee.

If you sell the car, the features of the car go back to base level. If one starts thinking about this it means that someone(s) will have the ability to push these software subscriptions such as GPS, radio, other apps. Not that much of a stretch that abuse can/will happen.

bootown said:

This is not true in my experience at least. Toyota removed my remote start fob capabilities after one year on a brand new 2020 purchase because I wouldn’t sign up for their remote services. Contacted Toyota corporate multiple times and they wouldn’t do anything unless I paid them monthly.

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That means you did not actually have remote start. You had Remote Connect. One is hardware, the other is not. I believe with remote connect, you could in theory start the car from the top of a skyscraper, like I had mentioned in my post. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong. But if this is the case, then it does cost Toyota money to provide this service. If you do not want to subscribe, then you should pay the few hundred dollars (or whatever it costs) and just get Remote Start installed.

I suspect gradualism involved here also. Add something here, we get used to it. Add another thing next year and we get used to it. And so on. Sort of like putting a frog in a cold pot of water on top of the stove.

just don't subscribe to it and besides a lot of people don't need those extra features. we just need to go from one place to another, that's all. older generations or retired people would not want to pay since money will be limited.

Something_Awesome said:

That means you did not actually have remote start. You had Remote Connect. One is hardware, the other is not. I believe with remote connect, you could in theory start the car from the top of a skyscraper, like I had mentioned in my post. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong. But if this is the case, then it does cost Toyota money to provide this service. If you do not want to subscribe, then you should pay the few hundred dollars (or whatever it costs) and just get Remote Start installed.

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You are incorrect to a large extent, unless you just enjoy trolling folks or didn't take time to do a 5 second Google search before posting.
Toyota '''Reviewing''' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback

The 4Runner and other Toyota models suffering from this "subscription feature" are equipped with hardware based remote start via the key fob. Press lock 2 times within X seconds and then hold to start. Yes, they can also be started via phone app, but the vehicles implement traditional hardware based remote start functionality.

It looks like Toyota took the minimal effort development path to "encourage" subscription revenue by modifying the existing remote start hardware to ask the DCM if the vehicle has a active subscription before starting the vehicle.

So, you're technically correct in that the vehicle literature probably documented this somewhere as a subscription feature...but, these owners bought the remote start hardware when they bought the vehicle. It doesn't require a digital subscription to function any more than the power windows, heated seats, or engine starter itself.

At least, that's my take on the outrage.

Toyota's implementation of remote start is rather stupid, IMO, anyway. Yes, you can remote start the vehicle to cool/heat for 5 minutes...but, the second you touch the door handle to enter the vehicle, it shuts down the engine until you manually restart (brake pedal/start button). It's a first world problem for sure, but just seems the opposite of user friendly.

riverwolf said:

You are incorrect to a large extent, unless you just enjoy trolling folks or didn't take time to do a 5 second Google search before posting.
Toyota '''Reviewing''' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback

The 4Runner and other Toyota models suffering from this "subscription feature" are equipped with hardware based remote start via the key fob. Press lock 2 times within X seconds and then hold to start. Yes, they can also be started via phone app, but the vehicles implement traditional hardware based remote start functionality.

It looks like Toyota took the minimal effort development path to "encourage" subscription revenue by modifying the existing remote start hardware to ask the DCM if the vehicle has a active subscription before starting the vehicle.

So, you're technically correct in that the vehicle literature probably documented this somewhere as a subscription feature...but, these owners bought the remote start hardware when they bought the vehicle. It doesn't require a digital subscription to function any more than the power windows, heated seats, or engine starter itself.

At least, that's my take on the outrage.

Toyota's implementation of remote start is rather stupid, IMO, anyway. Yes, you can remote start the vehicle to cool/heat for 5 minutes...but, the second you touch the door handle to enter the vehicle, it shuts down the engine until you manually restart (brake pedal/start button). It's a first world problem for sure, but just seems the opposite of user friendly.

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I am still on the fence if they did this on purpose or some engineer was just that ignorant/naïve to think that all customers would just pay for a subscription so it wouldn't be an issue.

My guess is that it's likely more on the latter than the former; Toyota started heavily integrating the DCM into their headunits when they came out with the SOS Safety Connect system and putting "connected" features into Entune as it was upgraded. Most everything headunit wise on newer Toyotas is heavily tied to the DCM functionality in some form or another (i.e. microphone input is fed in serial to the DCM which then outputs it to the Headunit for bluetooth calls/voice recognition/etc. features; if the DCM is acting up you may notice people can't hear you on calls). So I am going to guess whoever designed the Remote Start system integration never considered that people wouldn't keep their Safety Connect and Remote Connected Services subscriptions up to date and thus why bother programming a separate protocol for using the smart key to start the vehicle remotely? (I would have to probably dig real deep in the FSMs and other literature, but it would not shock me if when you use the Smart Key to remote start the car it still pings Toyota's servers to validate the remote start signal to your phone account before allowing the request to go to the ECM/Smart Key modules.)

As for the vehicle turning off when you open the door, it's just a security feature you can't (as far as I am aware of) turn off. They aren't the only manufacturer to do that, my father's QX80 does the same thing. It's just to make sure that someone couldn't run up to the vehicle in your driveway and hop in and drive off with it (I am guessing they are assuming you might be close enough to the vehicle that the smart entry would bypass automatic door locks?). It's an annoying feature, but I sort of see where they are coming from; I live in an area that I would probably never have to worry about that, but if I were still living in the Bay Area I would want it even if I was standing right outside of the vehicle.

riverwolf said:

You are incorrect to a large extent, unless you just enjoy trolling folks or didn't take time to do a 5 second Google search before posting.
Toyota '''Reviewing''' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback

The 4Runner and other Toyota models suffering from this "subscription feature" are equipped with hardware based remote start via the key fob. Press lock 2 times within X seconds and then hold to start. Yes, they can also be started via phone app, but the vehicles implement traditional hardware based remote start functionality.

It looks like Toyota took the minimal effort development path to "encourage" subscription revenue by modifying the existing remote start hardware to ask the DCM if the vehicle has a active subscription before starting the vehicle.

So, you're technically correct in that the vehicle literature probably documented this somewhere as a subscription feature...but, these owners bought the remote start hardware when they bought the vehicle. It doesn't require a digital subscription to function any more than the power windows, heated seats, or engine starter itself.

At least, that's my take on the outrage.

Toyota's implementation of remote start is rather stupid, IMO, anyway. Yes, you can remote start the vehicle to cool/heat for 5 minutes...but, the second you touch the door handle to enter the vehicle, it shuts down the engine until you manually restart (brake pedal/start button). It's a first world problem for sure, but just seems the opposite of user friendly.

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Visited your article. The Remote Start Hardware that you say is actually installed in the vehicle turns out to actually NOT be remote start hardware (conventional remote start).

The hardware you are referring to is the vehicle's "data communication module." DCM implies there is overhead cost to Toyota beyond the actual cost of the hardware itself and the installing of it (this is assuming the hardware is going to be used). But thanks for inferring I am lazy or stupid or a troll or whatever just before linking an article that blew up in your face. I of course found no reason to read the rest of your post beyond the article you linked.

If you really want remote start, you can buy one yourself that does not require a network or cloud-based services.

By the way, I have no problem for people fighting to get free stuff. Do you. But it seems like you people fighting to get the Remote Start do not understand how this software/data based feature is working. At best, if consumers were to win this battle, Toyota would drop this network-based remote start from the service, maybe lower the subscription cost slightly, and then offer you conventional remote start as like an $800 option or whatever it was in the past. But keep in mind, the network-based remote start is better. More range and more ways to start the car.

In either case, aftermarket is going to be the most cost-effective.

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+remote+start+will+no+longer+function&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&oq=toyota+remote+start+will+no+longer+function&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i299l2.7818j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

This applies to 2020 and up 4Runner where the remote start is no longer dealer installed, comes from factory.

Superjet said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+remote+start+will+no+longer+function&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS762US762&oq=toyota+remote+start+will+no+longer+function&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i299l2.7818j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

This applies to 2020 and up 4Runner where the remote start is no longer dealer installed, comes from factory.

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Correct. Just like Auto headlights, Auto Dual Zone Climate Control, the Remote Start/Remote Connect are reserved for the Limited and Pro 4Runner trim levels only. There is a module buried in the spaghetti of wires behind the cover below and to the left of the steering wheel that's connected to the ignition that allows the function, and all the lesser than thou, lowly SR5 and TRD OR/ORPs do not deserve such higher functionality in our vehicles, even if we wanted to shell out the money to Mother Toyota. Alas, Remote Start/Remote Connect were not meant for us.