You do not know anything about electric motors, torque, and slow speed performance of hybrids. It’s about performance, not your anxiety over people who are different than you.

A hybrid 4R would be a beast off-road. Anyone who knows anything about cars at this point knows that. And anyone who’s mad about a vehicle getting 25 mpg in the city instead of 15 is an idiot in my book. Less stops at the gas station means more driving and doing things that matter.

Add to that Toyota has had hybrids for a long time now, and most of them are still on the road. It’s proven tech and a proven implementation.

Seems win-win to me. Sign me up.

Incorrect

It’s all moot until 2024, so just a waste of time trying to convince others, but I agree: hybrids and BEVs have come a long way from the tree-hugging, Prius stereotypes.

Unfortunately, those who still see that way may miss out — but that’s OK. They can buy a 5th gen with the tried-and-true powertrain for at least a few more years.

As much as I respect his effort, he is getting very carried away and needs to not become so speculative. 2023 is not correct and that has already been stated. It was delayed and it is clear he is going off of outdated information.

A lot of his speculation is much better than the rest (ie other vloggers/journalists), but it still leans on being clickbait to a degree. Anyone with key information, is not hopping in front of a camera or exposing themselves. By going so public as a professional engineer, a lot of people are not passing on info to him I imagine.

As I said before, it is MY 2024 at earliest. It will be built in Mexico at TMMGT and launch in the spring of 2024. No sooner at all.

That is not accurate at all, being that the delay of Land Cruiser and Tundra, set back every body on frame redesign by over 1 year and 4Runner and Prado are aligned to the degree, it fell even further behind than the rest.

Prado enters production before the 4Runner, in being manufactured in Japan. 4Runner will follow in early 2024, in being built at another plant in North America.

It won't. At best, it will be revealed. Nothing for MY 2023 and I stand by that, because the new information was credible for me, the deeper I looked.

Of course AN updated it LOL. Be careful not to always trust their reporting, even if Crain Communications are the most credible journalists in the industry. Things are always subject to change unfortunately and Automotive News have equally made a lot of false predictions over the years or muddle their information on purpose, to be in between.

Yep, this is at least correct. No longer being redesigned for MY 2024. Only way that will happen is if an about face, happens at the eleventh and Tahara production is retained. Going forward, it is TMMGT and that does not come online until January 2024 at earliest for 4Runner.

Why? New Tacoma needs to be launched first at TMMGT, in September 2023. Can't have two all-new models, enter production at the same time. Hilux has always been a different vehicle from 120-Series/150-Series and rides on IMV frame, a more heavy duty and downmarket architecture for developing and underdeveloped regions. The Tacoma is essentially a 4Runner/Prado pickup, while Hilux sits below it.

Other than sharing maybe the GR V6 once, Hilux is a totally different truck and they might be unified on TNGA-F starting in 2023, when Hilux is redesigned as well.

As for the whole Toyota USA timeline (omitting a few models) through 2024.

Copied from another post of mine:

Please give me a few hours, the quoted will be edited in a few hours.

Why would they release a redesign Tacoma before the 4R when it's only 6 years old as compared to the 4R at 12? That makes no sense.

I think they sell twice as many tacos as 4runners and they are moving the taco manufacturing to Mexico now. Perhaps it makes sense to train the workers to assemble the tacos then have them transition to the new gen taco then bring on the 6th gen 4runner after the skill of the plant is up to speed?

The extras added to the '22 4runner makes more sense now. Everyone was asking why Toyota would add these features in the last MY.

If this is true I am definitely buying a '22 4runner made in Japan.

I have updated my post for clarity.

They cannot risk delaying the next Tacoma, in the face of new competition. Ford in particular and GM to a lesser degree.

#NextGenRanger: Tested to the Extreme - YouTube


The 2016 plan was always to redesign 4Runner first, then Tacoma. Very recently, 4Runner and Prado both got delayed again. They were previously delayed in 2019, after the Tundra and Land Cruiser fell behind.

While Tacoma held its own this time and is still on stream for Fall 2023 launch. Prado is 1 year late in Fall 2023, while 4Runner is even further behind and shows in terms of Job 1, Q1 2024.

Yes, yes, and yes. They need to get acclimated to building the new Tacoma and implementing TNGA in the Guanajuato plant, before adding a replacement product in the 4Runner, which was built to very high standards in Tahara.

I imagine 4Runner customers are much more quality sensitive than a chunk of Tacoma buyers, even if they are nearly the same customer base under the pricier TRD label. 4Runner is solidly more upmarket, based on starting MSRP for a base model nearly reaching $40k.

Sucks, as it means they'll drag their feet and maybe not reveal it for another 2 years. Also bad, if no styling revisions are being made, then the design Toyota approved in early 2020, stays on through to production in early 2024 and hopefully is timeless enough to withstand an 18 month delay.

Current model turned 12 about 2 weeks ago and officially will be 12 on November 23 (launch date). Very keen observation on the 2022 changes BTW.

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According to this thread "no-one" will buy a Mexican build 4Runner.
Highly unlikely but thats what some people seem to think.


https://www.toyota-4runner.org/6th-g...ico%C2%85.html

@Carmaker1 : Where do you get your info from? I watch a couple of the 4runner YouTube people (TRDJon, Automotive Press, Downshift and Kirk Kreifel) they are still saying the 6th gen 4runner is being released next fall as a MY'23. Not that I doubt you, it makes more sense to move the 4Runner production to Mexico when it's primarily sold in Can/US and adding BSM, CTA and MTM to the '22 only makes sense if you want to squeeze a couple more years out the current gen.

Now let the minor 2023 MY changes speculation start. I would not buy a 4Runner built in Mexico with a 4 cyl turbo maybe if it had a removable roof and was cheaper. I don't mind paying for a quality built vehicle made by well paid workers but charging $50k for a vehicle made by people making $3/hour is ethically wrong.

Well shoot, I was gonna trade in for a 2022MY because I thought it was gonna be the last of the 5th gen... don't want to have buyers remorse if the 2023 is gonna have even more upgrades before the next gen releases. @Carmaker1 , know if there's anything else in the pipeline as far as updates before they retire it? the BSM/RCTA + multi terrain monitor was a surprise to me for 2022.

Your timeline doesn't seem to include Grand highlander.

My insight is directly from Toyota/Lexus personnel in most cases, whether R&D center in Ann Arbor, HQ in Plano, or CALTY in Newport Beach. Plus I have a lot of connections, that may not always pan out, but when they do, it is helpful.

I also have access to industry databases, projections, and etc. Suppliers are another thing and networking reveals a lot of product planning from time to time at other automakers. I take advantage all and any resources available to me, but I cannot say the same for these guys on YouTube or writing contradiction laden news articles.

These other guys on YouTube frustrate the hell out of me, as they are BSing people and it's so annoying. Considering what I still do professionally, it is bad idea for me to go on YouTube and counteract their information on video/recording. None of us in such capacities really do that for good reason. If people cannot pick up on what we are saying on the low, then they can't be helped LOL.

For example

With Nissan recently, they unveiled a replacement for the 370Z. I saw that car as a shareholder, years ago. It is was a design representation then and not a drivable prototype yet. To my knowledge, they hadn't even called it a 400Z and for a year or so, I pretty much ignored this BS rumor mill about that name.

Yet, every single YouTuber doubled down on that fictious name, so as the Z Proto was making its debut, I addressed a Nissan contact in Ann Arbor and said I didn't understand why the public was calling it 400Z, did anything change internally and was this the new name now, per marketing? He explained, the 400Z name was utter BS and just tabloid fodder. Verbatim, he said that the vehicle in question was still called Nissan Z. NOT 400Z nor 300Z. Just Z, even if it was now powered by a twin turbo 3.0L V6 instead of 3.7L VQ37 in 370Z.

I never heard that "400Z" name at the shareholder presentation, which debuted the new design well before anyone else saw it. I just heard Z and new no different personally. Yet everyone around me online, seemed to believe otherwise.

So it was clear to me, I needed to find out where that rumor originated and kill it. Nissan officially declined to breach that topic, until the product was ready for launch in late 2021/early 2022.

My research found out that it was a synthesis of BS info from British Auto Car in 2018, chockfull of ERRORs and contradictions. Another one was a Canadian automotive site giving it more fuel, with taken out of context information in terms of Nissan filing trademarks for "Z", not necessarily 400Z. YouTubers saw that and screamed it to the heavens, creating an unwelcome cluster**** of misinformation.

The public bought anything to support 400Z, hook, line, and sinker no thanks to them. I made a hell of a lot of effort, to debunk that rumor. Unsuccessful and a waste of time. Quickly I found out, a lot of car bros are horribly incorrigible and double down on their own ignorance, even if presented with the facts. A good chunk are wise enough to listen.

Because I do not care to use YouTube as my mouthpiece and expose myself to termination/prosecution (giving out advance information/IP info), very easy for folks to dismiss anything I say and trust the next clown with a camera, yet have no professional credentials in journalism and amount to vloggers.

Of all of them, I had the most respect for Automotive Press, with his industry insight and highly educated perspective. He is now stooping to the same clickbait nonsense, that others are guilty of. I wouldn't trust him, because of they are merely regurgitating semi-public information or making their guesstimates, with weak nuances that miss important details.

TFL piss me off the most, being that they are terribly careless with their widespread reach and are only good at taking spy shots (spot vehicles not seen by anyone ese). Everything else from them is opinionated nonsense and fluff. I warned personally and of course, they tried to drown me out with BSing.

In conclusion, their insight in this case is weak and not well informed. They keep working off of old info and peddling it over and over. They need to quit and stop throwing stuff at the wall, focus on subjects that they can credibly report on. It is not a 2023 model and clearly you are way smarter than them, to realize that in various ways already.

I am saddened by what automotive journalism has turned into. Sorry for the long post, but I really need to explain the whole conundrum that is media today in the automotive segment and how they challenge the more accurate insight of those of us lurking in the shadows.

Some people hinted at the move to Mexico for awhile, but I admit I dismissed it as nothing and got my confirmation finally. You wisely touched on the amount of changes for 2022, foreshadowing another model year after this one.


Ooh, can't speculate about 2023. Just about anything can happen, as the appearance and changes are locked down, but they are probably so minimal, I won't know anything at all for months.

I understand your perspective, but this is the business world unfortunately. Satisfy the shareholders and dealers, not the customer. Often what just keeps happening and sucks. 6G 4Runner is in the vein of the current model, just as the Land Cruiser 300 was designed in the vein of the 80/100/200. Design wise, it is evolutionary. Have I seen it up close? No. Have I talked to a guy who has?? Yes, a clay modeler I work for the competition and polite banter, is limited to a degree regarding IP. You break that trust by asking too much or putting out on blast (ie YouTube), you scare folks away.

Not much is happening for 2023, as it was never supposed to an additional model year in the first place. Things are often done in twos at automakers. If something needs to last just 1 year, it will be special editions at best. For 2 years left, equipment updates or very small cosmetic stuff. For 3 years left? If feasible and ordered early enough, a visible refresh. For 4 years, a significant faceiift.

The next 4Runner is 2 1/2 years away. Updating it for MY 2023 is a colossal waste of money, because 16 months will not provide return on investment. The 2022 improvements, can at least run a good 2 1/2 years. As seen in Lexus GX, which will be redesigned in over 2 years as well.

That was supposed to be under 2023 Highlander, but it's something not really on my radar. I missed that bullet, as it's November 2022.

To be honest, I tend to forget about and ignore anything FWD related. My core focus here is body-on-frame vehicles migrating to TNGA-F and the source information I have, omitted a few upcoming models: GR86, Grand Highlander, BZ4x, and maybe one more, are not in these databases for me to copy and paste here. They are unnamed.

I work off of my own knowledge at that point and then have make a synthesis of all available information (GR86, BZ4x).

Recalling, I was the first and sole person publicly (outside Toyota), to give out the timeline for all of Toyota's 2022 model year vehicles, back in January 2020. That was a bit challenging, as I narrowly beat the leaking of that red/black chart and predicted it too. Unlike that chart, I already knew which unnamed vehicles were which, while the media didn't at all.

A lot of idiots (not on here) especially in the media, took the label "2022" to mean, 2022 model year 4Runner. Apparently their dumbasses missed the fact, other vehicles were listed by calendar year and season, therefore 2022 = 2023 model. As we all know now, it has fallen back into 2024.

Great info @Carmaker1 . Thanks for posting

Thanks, I appreciate it and thank you for spreading the good word.

Have any of you heard about the 2024 Lexus GX?

I knew I wasn't doubting myself, when it became clear that the USA folks were keeping mum extremely.

The 2024 GX, is going very niche. This is not going to be your mama's Lexus, as has been the case since December 2002.

This vehicle loses all sense of its curves and harkens back to the 1990 Prado, aka none other than a modern take on the 70-Series, but in a luxurious and high tech laden package.

This vehicle is being designed to compete with G550 and Defender 110 on the lower end of price range. The ultimate Lexus offroader. It is like Lexus hit reset and brought the 70-Series into the 21st century. The bad news? No V8 and no SFA like the J76. This migrates the GX to GA-F, but takes Lexus in a whole new direction.

Launch is December 2023, named GX 550. Allegedly a mild hybrid married to the V35A-FTS. Does this affect the 4Runner? Well considering how there is no 4.6L in the 4Runner, don't count on the TTV6.

One question I do have is, why wouldn't Toyota put the TX 500h and RX 500h V6 powertrain (8GR-FXS) in the 2024 4Runner? Surely it has been tuned for more torque in these crossover applications. I4T mated to hybrid is coming.

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Good info Carmaker1 and glad to have you back and posting again! I see you over on the Lexus forums as well, kudos to staying involved.

The new GX intrigues me and cant wait to see what it brings! I am a long time 4runner owner so it would be a nice upgrade down the road! I am bummed the new 4R is being pushed out to 2024, my 2017 will be OLD by then!
I may consider the upcoming Sequoia for the time being.