1" Body Lift & Rear Springs?

[psea17]

Hi All,

Looking for a little help w/ my 98 4runner manual transmission (228k mi). I bought a trailer. Will be no more than 4000 lbs loaded. I'm planning on doing a 1" body lift to allow more space for the larger tires (265/75R16) which rub the fender a little at times. Want to keep the truck relatively close to stock.

I think I'm probably going to get the Daystar Cradle System Airbags. A few questions.

1. What should I do about the rear springs? I expect the tongue weight to be about 250-300lbs.

2. Is there a way to adjust the airbags from within the cab? Just wondering what my options might be.

3. What shocks would you recommend? Want something that balances quality and price. Not looking for the most expensive.

4. Any suggestions as to the brakes? Should I make any changes?

Thanks!

 

[DaMonkey]

I’ve been pulling a trailer this last week in my 98 for some short runs. 6x12 utility trailer stuffed perfectly with 42 identical boxes each weigh 36#. I share that because it’s an ideal load with weight distributed perfect. That’s 1512# plus 1400# trailer = 2,912# total. 440 on the tongue.

It sucks. Not what this truck was built to do. Clutch not happy, underpowered, I avoid any heavy braking, dips feel dangerous, and the highway I can feel the tail wag the dog. I’ve got a great cooling fan setup, And I can see it’s actually getting put to work; the motor is working hard. Stock cooling would be questionable. I don’t mind towing, in fact I enjoy it, but I prefer to do it properly, and this just feels like too much for this little truck. Maybe I’m a pusssy.

I’ve got OME 906 springs which have 220 spring rate which is one of the stiffest options. Those have 2” lift from stock. With trailer on, Truck is doing a bit of a wheelie, but not offensive. Few inches off bump stops. If I was always going to tow more, I’d get airbags sleeve style that expand in the coils like airlift. I had not heard of those daystar cradles and checked them out. They look like they only support after you’ve already sank bellow bags down to them. Sort of a progressive system? Sleeve bags in springs would stiffen your rate up from the top and keep you level.

Want to tow 4,000? Plan for 600 tongue. 250-300 tongue weight would be a menace.

Absolutely need more brakes. Mine are stock and with trailer I have to do some planning ahead lol.

If you get airbags, You don’t need new springs unless you want to lift the truck. Which you do, so why body lift?

Yes airbags can be controlled from cab at an expense with an extra kit. Why not just set and forget the valve at the bumper with a pump?

For the shocks, something with a warranty and available locally. Heavy towing is hard on them. Maybe Monroe Spectrums from a parts store and hang on to the receipt. On a different truck, I bought Monroe’s once for the warranty and never had to use it.

You can get the truck level with airbags and upgrade brakes to the Tundra brakes, but motor and chassis have limits that that you will be pushing and are much harder to expand.

I dunno... I guess to me it just doesn’t make sense to setup one of these trucks to tow. Fine for occasion, but not for regular duty.

 

[psea17]

DaMonkey,

Thx for the feedback. Few things:

I only want the lift to address tire rubbing, hence a small body lift is easiest and one of the least expensive options.

4000lbs would be the absolute most, but probably unlikely. The tonque weight dry is 220lbs. So I expect the tongue weight to be close to 300lbs normally.

The trailer has electronic brakes to assist, so I should be fine here.

So airbags are set & forget? I figured when not towing it would require airing down to maintain a decent ride. No? It seems most using these cradles do so for two reasons: airbags are more protected & suspension travel isn't inhibited.

You said, " I’d get airbags sleeve style that expand in the coils like airlift. I had not heard of those daystar cradles and checked them out. They look like they only support after you’ve already sank bellow bags down to them. Sort of a progressive system? Sleeve bags in springs would stiffen your rate up from the top and keep you level." I thought the daystar did exactly what you were suggesting within the springs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Thx for the input.

 

[jgue467]

Not convinced the 1" BL will overcome the 75 series tire rub, probably will still be there unless the front coils/struts are swapped for new too, perhaps "99 talls" will do the job.

Otherwise, Luck and enjoy the runner! :cowboy:

 

[psea17]

From what I've read 1" is sufficient for 265/75R16.

 

[fotorunner]

i've run 265/75/16 tires on 3 different 4 Runners, a 98, 97 and now a 2000. The only one that had any minor tire rub was the 2000 and that wasn't very often.

 

[psea17]

Agree. Mine only rub when turned at an angle with newish treads. With BL, I should be ok.

 

[DaMonkey]

So airbags are set & forget? I figured when not towing it would require airing down to maintain a decent ride. No? It seems most using these cradles do so for two reasons: airbags are more protected & suspension travel isn't inhibited.

You said, " I’d get airbags sleeve style that expand in the coils like airlift. I had not heard of those daystar cradles and checked them out. They look like they only support after you’ve already sank bellow bags down to them. Sort of a progressive system? Sleeve bags in springs would stiffen your rate up from the top and keep you level." I thought the daystar did exactly what you were suggesting within the springs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Thx for the input.

Sure. Just a presta valve at back bumper you pump up when trailer goes on and release air when trailer goes off. Can plug 12v pump into rear power jack or even use bike pump. On board air system would be nice and could be used with cab control, but it's a much bigger project and is only a convenience for trailer air bags.

Daystar cradles look outside of coil and like you have to sink a few inches first and already doing a wheelie before you hit the bellow:

Sleeve bag like airlift basically does a bear hug on spring from inside out and increases spring rate from the top. If you want to stay level from trailering, this would be the way to go, but you lose some up-travel which may be an issue if you need it on the trail:

 

[psea17]

I've reached out to daystar. Waiting for their response. But my understanding is that the intent is to combat exactly what you mentioned: reduced travel. It allows the travel to go unrestricted due to airbag use....I believe.

 

[DaMonkey]

I've reached out to daystar. Waiting for their response. But my understanding is that the intent is to combat exactly what you mentioned: reduced travel. It allows the travel to go unrestricted due to airbag use....I believe.

Yes, that's exactly the point. The cradle does not interfere, but if you look that pic, that truck would need to sink 3-4" before it hits the bellow. The bag does not help until after that is taken up. At rest with a full trailer, you will sink the back of the truck and do a wheelie at rest but you will have additional spring rate when it dips on bumps to keep you off the bump stops.

The sleeved bag provides additional spring rate right away so you can level your truck at rest with a trailer on. The dowside of the sleeved bag that Daystar has addressed is that it interferes your full cycle of suspension which is not a big deal if you are not building a truck to overtake obstacles on a trail, and the bags are necessary if you are setting up for leveling the load while trailering.

The other thing with the cradles, is that is just an add-on solution to an already complicated kit that you will need bellow airbags and brackets. The sleeves are like $70 bucks for a kit and you are on your way. But you have to cut your bumpstops down to make room, so it's not trivial to simply take out the airbags when you're not using them.

 

[sportscarfan]

I can confirm that a 1" BL and '99 springs are sufficient to clear larger tires - I've had 285/75-16s for years. Don't forget to flatten the pinch weld.

 

[phattyduck]

265/75-16 should clear with just a correct alignment (assuming stock offset/backspacing on the wheels). There is no need for a body lift for those.

The daystar cradles would only work on leaf spring trucks, based on the pictures. Your option for airbags are the Airlift 1000's.

Measure your ball height before hitching up, hitch up, then add back enough air for 0.5-1.0" of sag. Run separate air lines for best handing. Run them at/near min pressure for day-to-day driving.

As long as the trailer had trailer brakes, you can 'get by' with the stock truck brakes.

-Charlie

 

[psea17]

All,

Thank you for the input. I just got off the phone w/ Wayne at Daystar (623-907-0081). Nice/helpful guy. To summarize, the airbag, which normally is installed attached at the axle, should be installed attached to the frame near the top of the spring. By doing so, the airbags won't limit full articulation of the wheel. The airbag should be installed w/ the air supply feeding from the top. By doing it this way, you have less chance of pulling the hose from the airbag. The product is not limited to leaf spring trucks.

For the 3rd gen 4Runner Wayne suggested this part number: KU09140BK. Only important thing to know is that this is for use with a 6" airbag.

Thanks for the help. Hope this helps someone else in the future.

...now I'm off to start replacing bushings everywhere! First stop: Rear upper control arm bushings. First time. Wish me luck!

 

[DaMonkey]

All,

Thank you for the input. I just got off the phone w/ Wayne at Daystar (623-907-0081). Nice/helpful guy. To summarize, the airbag, which normally is installed attached at the axle, should be installed attached to the frame near the top of the spring. By doing so, the airbags won't limit full articulation of the wheel. The airbag should be installed w/ the air supply feeding from the top. By doing it this way, you have less chance of pulling the hose from the airbag. The product is not limited to leaf spring trucks.

For the 3rd gen 4Runner Wayne suggested this part number: KU09140BK. Only important thing to know is that this is for use with a 6" airbag.

Thanks for the help. Hope this helps someone else in the future.

...now I'm off to start replacing bushings everywhere! First stop: Rear upper control arm bushings. First time. Wish me luck!

Good luck with the bushing! I know they are not easy, but doable. And good rear bushings are essential to towing.

Did Wayne discuss at all whether their system will provide ride leveling for a trailer, or just additional spring rate after it's down?

 

[psea17]

Guys, update! Received the airbags and the Daystar cradles. Wayne at daystar didn't do his homework when he recommended the cradles for my application. NOW HE SAYS THEY WILL NOT WORK. They are not designed to sit at the base of the springs. Feel like an idiot but, if you can't trust what the manufacturer tells you, well......

So are there any airbag kits for a 3rd gen 4runner that don't sit inside the springs?

Sorry for doubting the collective wisdom!

On to the successes! Just got done with (special thanks to Timmy The Toolman's Youtube videos!!):
-rear lower control arm bushings
-rear upper control arm bushings
-rear swar bar bushings
-pan hard bushings will be done shortly
-front upper control arm bushings
-front upper ball joint
-front lower control arm bushings
-front lower ball joint
-inner tie rods
-outter tie rods
-rack and pinion bushings
-sway bar bushings/endlinks

If I plan to replace shocks, do I need to replace bushings on my old shocks? ie, can the new bushings be transferred to the new shocks or do they come w/ new bushings? ...or does it depend on the shocks?

 

[psea17]

Update:

Installed the '99 talls brand new. Just replaced with 890's in rear. The difference betw them and the new '99 talls is HUGE. Before, my airbags touched at both ends even with the truck unloaded. Now, with the truck unloaded there's 3"+ room between the airbags and the bottom.

Will report back on how the truck behaves towing with the 890's. But so far my '98 manual 4run has been towing this hulk of a trailer GREAT! Empty, it weighed 3100lbs. Now has to easily be 3400lbs. Sometimes have to shift into 3rd gear going up steep hills. Otherwise, there's been a few times I don't realize I'm doing 80+ on the hwy. Love my 4Run!