1986 toyota no start no accessories

[86yota]

I have a 86 runner with some strange electrical bugs I am attempting to trouble shoot. When I purchased the car it was starting intermittently via the ignition. The previous owner installed a hot wire switch to counteract this problem. It consists of a hot wire attaching to the positive battery terminal, runs to a switch in the cab, and then taps into the wire above the small plug of the starter.
After doing various maintenance; fixing a exhaust leak at the manifold, preforming a compression check ect. The car went from intermittently starting via the key to not at all. As well none of the accessories work. I.E. no rear lights, no turn signals, no dash lights, no wipers. The car will still start and run via the hot wire switch. My headlights also work as well as the hazards.
What's strange is that when the key is turned all the way to the start position, when the engine should be cranking via the key, and I push the hot wire switch everything turns on.
I'm relatively inexperienced with electrical problems but also rather determined to fix it myself haha. So far I've redone the major grounds in the engine and tested them for continuity. I tested all my fuses both in the engine compartment and the cab. My 80amp fusible link was replaced by the previous owner with I believe 6 gage wire. I've checked all my connections for corrosion and they look fine. My guess is that either I lost a ground or a power source somewhere. I have the wiring diagrams for a 87 4runner for reference, couldn't find an 86 anywhere, and a multimeter. Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated!

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[Thefishguy77]

22re?

Check all you grounds in the engine compartment. Should be 4? Firewall to head, passenger fender to block, wiring harness to manifold, alternator to battery? Also check to make sure your starter lead from the battery is good.

I have a similar problem with my 85 and just ordered some #4 welding wire to upgrade my grounds. One of the weak points on a 22re.

Also look to make sure your wiring harness isn't all hacked to sh*t. Seems like P.O.'s like to do that for some reason.

Edit
Just saw you did the grounds already. I need more coffee.

Be careful on the fusible link. It's important to have that link in place. Unless you replaced it with an inline fuse. Check out this thread
http://www.yotatech.com/f131/fusible-link-size-big-3-wiring-mod-upgrade-275867/
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[KidVermicious]

Lots of good discussion here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...x-intermittent-no-crank-22re.html#post1117438

I would start by tearing out the pushbutton start, that's probably causing the problem. If you take it out and you still have the no-start condition, at least you know you're dealing with factory wiring. Kludgy PO wiring is the number one cause of electrical gremlins.

 

[RAD4Runner]

By your clear description of your issue, you have made it almost fixed. Good job on that. However, knowing whether you have manual or auto tranny is important.

Like KidV and Thefishguy said above ^^.
Inspect and restore your wiring to stock. Then measure and test for voltages. It would be very difficult for people like us to help you remotely if you do not have a stock circuit.

Trace the "C" wire (schematic below) to where it leads to the circuits that do not work and find out where you lose power/voltage. You should get 12V at points enclosed in red rectangles (on right rectangle, when switches are on).

... I tested all my fuses both in the engine compartment and the cab. My 80amp fusible link was replaced by the previous owner with I believe 6 gage wire.

Thefishguy77;2481827]22re?
Be careful on the fusible link.

YES, THE FUSIBLE LINK SHOULD NEVER BE "UPGRADED". It is there to protect your stock circuit. If one is adding load to his power circuit, the additional circuits should be ran directly from the battery with a separate fused distribution circuit. The latter will protect stock circuit from any issue with the added circuit.

 

[RAD4Runner]

Lots of good discussion here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...x-intermittent-no-crank-22re.html#post1117438
I would start by tearing out the pushbutton start

Agree. The pushbutton start switch makes your truck like a Prius - LOL! It is a band aid.

Fix it properly. IF your truck does not have the starter relay (i.e., it was made before mid-1986 OR it has an automatic transmission), do like KidV says ^^^.

IF it has a starter relay, we are absolutely, plussitively sure that IT WAS WIRED WRONG FROM THE FACTORY. Rewire it according to this.

 

[89FourRunner]

I chased an intermittent no start click at the relay and selonoid for a long time, followed rad4runners how to, and ive never had a problem since.

 

[86yota]

Thanks for all the help guys! I ripped out all the PO's wiring and returned it to stock. Followed that C wire like you suggested rad4runner and found a bad connection at one of the splits. Fixed that and everything turned back on!

I'm going put the intake manifold back on in the morning and make sure it fires up. I plan on replacing the main wire with a fusible link before I start driving it.

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks for all the help guys! I ripped out all the PO's wiring and returned it to stock. Followed that C wire like you suggested rad4runner and found a bad connection at one of the splits. Fixed that and everything turned back on!

Good deal, but don't count your chickens yet. The PO put that pushbutton in because he had the intermittent click-no-start gremlin. Be ready for it to come back.

As RAD noted, if your truck doesn't have a factory starter relay, the solution is to add one like I did. If your truck does have a factory relay, rewire it like RAD did. Might as well do it now instead of waiting until your truck decides not to start in the middle of the season's first snow storm. :smow:

 

[RAD4Runner]

... found a bad connection at one of the splits...

Was bad connection on a splice like this? I fricking hate those.

The PO put that [PRIUS - LOL!-RAD] pushbutton in because he had the intermittent click-no-start gremlin. ... the middle of the season's first snow storm...

Absolutely.

 

[86yota]

Good deal, but don't count your chickens yet. The PO put that pushbutton in because he had the intermittent click-no-start gremlin. Be ready for it to come back.

As RAD noted, if your truck doesn't have a factory starter relay, the solution is to add one like I did. If your truck does have a factory relay, rewire it like RAD did. Might as well do it now instead of waiting until your truck decides not to start in the middle of the season's first snow storm. :smow:

Yep I agree. Mine does not have the factory start relay. I'm going to go ahead and wire one in using your writeup as a guide. Thanks for that, should make it easy!

Was bad connection on a splice like this? I fricking hate those.


Absolutely.

Haha yeah exactly like that.

I went ahead and soldered the wires together. I think it would be better to crimp them because my iron didn't get hot enough to form a clean solder throughout. I'll probably go ahead and redo it tomorrow while I'm installing the start relay. Think crimping would be my best bet?

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[KidVermicious]

The factory harness is full of those garbage little crimp connections. I think your best bet would be a better soldering iron, but you could crimp it if you had to. At least you know it won't be worse than factory.

 

[86yota]

I'm also going to go ahead and replace that main fusible link while I'm at it. From what I've read I need a fusible link that is 4 sizes smaller than the wire I'm protecting. Is that right? Should I be going with a 12 gauge fusible link?

 

[RAD4Runner]

I'm also going to go ahead and replace that main fusible link while I'm at it. From what I've read I need a fusible link that is 4 sizes smaller than the wire I'm protecting. Is that right? Should I be going with a 12 gauge fusible link?

NEVER "UPGRADE" FUSIBLE LINK. Explained above...

 

[RAD4Runner]

Yep I agree. Mine does not have the factory start relay.

How come? You have automatic transmission, or you have early 86 truck? What month was it manufactured? See label on door frame.

Haha yeah exactly like that.

LOL! Thought so. Those crimps suck. There are more on wiring to injectors that also give many people headaches.

... I think it would be better to crimp them because my iron didn't get hot enough to form a clean solder throughout.

Strip ends of wires to where there is no more corrosion.
Use appropriate size heat shrink (ones with melting adhesive inside is good).
Twist wires together such that they stay together without anything holding them. That's mechanical integrity.
Now solder them well. That's electrical integrity. For automotive wiring use, away from sensitive electronic components I got an 80-Watt Weller soldering iron.

If you must crimp. Do NOT use a butt connector where you rely on current traveling on metal of butt connector. Use a PARALLEL crimp where wires being joined touch side by side and crimp grip them tight against each other like this...

AGAIN, DO NOT "UPGRADE" fusible link. See above.

 

[86yota]

How come? You have automatic transmission, or you have early 86 truck? What month was it manufactured? See label on door frame.

Its an automatic and an early 86 truck haha. It was manufactured in March.

Strip ends of wires to where there is no more corrosion.
Use appropriate size heat shrink (ones with melting adhesive inside is good).
Twist wires together such that they stay together without anything holding them. That's mechanical integrity.
Now solder them well. That's electrical integrity. For automotive wiring use, away from sensitive electronic components I got an 80-Watt Weller soldering iron.

I think I managed to get a good connection and solder here. All my accessories are working now. I heat shrink wrapped my connection and then wrapped it with electrical tape.

AGAIN, DO NOT "UPGRADE" fusible link. See above.

I wasn't certain what size fusible link to wire in so I put in a 40amp MAXI fuse instead. The PO had replaced my fusible link with 6 gauge wire. I was unsure what the original size of the factory fusible link was so after doing some research I figured this would be a safer than leaving it unfused.

I followed KidV's write up to install an aftermarket relay here. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/class...x-intermittent-no-crank-22re.html#post1117438 I am getting continuity between the post running to the battery and the post running to the starter, marked by the yellow arrows in my pic. I picked up the same relay for a 79' Bronco. I thought that the circuit in this relay would only close when power was applied to the small ignition switch terminal marked by the green arrow?

I am not getting any power to the small terminal with the key turned to the start position anyways:ybrick:. I can hear a faint click underneath the car when the key is turned. I'm planning on tracing the wire back to the ignition switch to see where I'm losing power at. I was also going to trace it back to the circuit opening relay. Any ideas on where to look first? Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help!

 

[86yota]

Also, not sure if this is related to that failed circuit, but my transmission doesn't seem to be shifting gears. Think that's a completely separate issue or could it be related to the electronic gremlins lol?

 

[KidVermicious]

Sounds like your relay is wonky. You should not have continuity between the outside posts until you put 12v on the trigger post (green arrow). You can test it by jumping 12v from the battery straight to that post and watching to see when you get continuity and when it goes away. If I'm understanding what you're saying, it sounds like the relay may be defective and operating reverse of how it's supposed to.

Hard to say with the transmission. Does it shift when you manually move the selector through the gears? Is it defaulting to first gear or OD? My '86 automatic would default to OD when it lost signal from the TPS, but it would shift manually. If that sounds like how yours is behaving, check that the TPS is calibrated and the connection to the ECU is solid. If not, then I have no idea.

 

[86yota]

Sounds like your relay is wonky. You should not have continuity between the outside posts until you put 12v on the trigger post (green arrow). You can test it by jumping 12v from the battery straight to that post and watching to see when you get continuity and when it goes away. If I'm understanding what you're saying, it sounds like the relay may be defective and operating reverse of how it's supposed to

Haha OK good that's what I was thinking too. I'm going to take it back and swap it out for another.

Hard to say with the transmission. Does it shift when you manually move the selector through the gears? Is it defaulting to first gear or OD? My '86 automatic would default to OD when it lost signal from the TPS, but it would shift manually. If that sounds like how yours is behaving, check that the TPS is calibrated and the connection to the ECU is solid. If not, then I have no idea.

It's defaulting to OD, still shifts through the gears manually. I'll check that out, thanks!


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[RAD4Runner]

Its an automatic and an early 86 truck haha. It was manufactured in March.

Cool. Good to know. KidV, I, et al have been trying to confirm where starter relay started appearing on the 22RE manual trans.

I wasn't certain what size fusible link to wire in so I put in a 40amp MAXI fuse instead.... I figured this would be a safer than leaving it unfused.

Sounds good. Better than no protection, but 80-amp fuse should be good.

I am not getting any power to the small terminal with the key turned to the start position anyways...
I'm planning on tracing the wire back to the ignition switch to see where I'm losing power at...
Any ideas on where to look first? Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help!

No power at all? No 12V? Yes, trace back to ST1 contact of IGN sw, but mosy likely you will find you lost power AFTER the Netral Safety switch (because COR is working)
Here's how power runs from ign switch ST1 contact to that wire that used to be on the starter solenoid, and now is on your added relay :

I can hear a faint click underneath the car when the key is turned.

You mean behind the glove compartment? That's your C.O.R. Nothing to do with cranking, but if it clicks that means power from ST1 contact is getting to it.

You may have bad connection at neutral safety switch. Lots of gunk accumulate down there. Neutral safety switch may also have bad contacts- partly because of the poor design of starter solenoid circuit that exposed NSS to high current (12Amps) needed to energize starter solenoid.

THEREFORE, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT STARTER RELAY BE ADDED TO TRUCKS WITHOUT, AND REWIRED PROPERLY ON TRUCKS WITH IT.

 

[86yota]

So I think that I finally found the root cause of my intermittent no start. I pulled off the neutral start switch and disassembled it.
The contacts inside were clogged with gunk. The two contacts on the swing arm were so gunked up that the springs recessed and pushed the contacts into the arm. This was preventing them from making any consistent contact with the opposing copper contacts.
I cleaned up the unit using degreaser and electrical cleaner.
I then applied some dielectric grease and reassembled the unit. It now passes the continuity checks in the Haynes manual.

I'm going to put the unit back on the truck tomorrow. Hopefully she fires up!

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