1990 suspension issues

[wankelTII]

I searched and found nothing
OK, so I have an SR5 2nd gen 4runner that has been extremely neglected and i decided it was time to fix things before something gives and it rolls over. I worked on a Grand Am Cup team for a while so I know plenty about cars and suspension but not SUVs.

I want the energy suspension bushing kit but the description says something about front coils and rear leaf springs. My 4runner has neither. It has no springs that I can see on the front, and coils in the rear. When I bought the thing it was lifted with 32s and thats all been changed now but I know its still lifted some, i believe I had to buy taller shocks or something.

Anyway, I just want to know if this all sounds like stock suspension and if the energy kit does come with the correct stuff. Any suggestions on where to buy the kit would be great too. Can I buy coilovers for the front?

Thanks in advance

 

[wankelTII]

Ok, so I found the correct kit:
8.18103G
I ordered it from ultrarev for $150 shipped they may tell you its $200 but if you tell them the summit price of $133 they will come down. Summit couldnt ship it to me until the end of Feb. ultrarev said it would ship out w/in 48hours.

No one I have talked to so far carries the swaybar end links, if anyone knows where to get some high quality end links please post. My swaybar and end links are metal to metal, haha
I will try to post before and after pics of everything. With 250,000 miles of wear and tear im sure it will be interesting.

 

[77'911]

urethane bushing install...

Though our 90 4runner does not have those miles(75k), I installed that complete energy suspension kit. Your going to love it. Its like night and day. I'd skip the lube they give you and use high temp anti-seize though. The only piece I'm waiting on is Sway-a-way to pump out some upgraded torsion bars in a month. I don't think you'll need to worry about those links too much. That truck won't lean at all with that kit installed.

Pic is me torching out the old rear control rod bushings. It took awhile to torch out the rubber then cut the shells out but was well worth it!

 

[04 sc V8]

Now that's a Fire! :biggrin2:

 

[77'911]

thanks....

Thanks. Map-gas is your friend. For anybody else with a classic 4runner, just talked to Sway-a-way and they said the upgraded torsion bars(part#1646) for these trucks will be available again next week. Now, I'll be able to complete the rebuild on the front end and have Toyota do their recall on the relay rod.

 

[elripster]

Re: thanks....

Thanks. Map-gas is your friend. For anybody else with a classic 4runner, just talked to Sway-a-way and they said the upgraded torsion bars(part#1646) for these trucks will be available again next week. Now, I'll be able to complete the rebuild on the front end and have Toyota do their recall on the relay rod.

Just an FYI, but there is no "upgrade" torsion bar. There are stock bars and stiffer aftermarket bars. Now stiff can be a good thing if you, for example, have a heavy winch/bumper combo or like to jump. But if you want the most flex out of your suspension and best on road ride, stock bars are the best.

Frank

 

[77'911]

torsion bars

The sway-a-way units(25mm) are only 30% stiffer then the factory bars. They are not the "race" units. As fars as ride quality, the front end dances around way to much. We do alot of highway and its bad. I can't imagine if someone had to drive it on back or logging roads.
Now I could be expecting too much out of the old truck. After rebuilding all of the rear suspension (urethane bushings, new shocks, etc.) and seeing the difference, new torsion bars are a no-brainer up front. I'd like to only go into the front suspension once since I'm replace all of the control arm bushings with urethane, all of the ball joints, and the wheel bearings/seals have already been done.

 

[elripster]

Re: torsion bars

The sway-a-way units(25mm) are only 30% stiffer then the factory bars. They are not the "race" units. As fars as ride quality, the front end dances around way to much. We do alot of highway and its bad. I can't imagine if someone had to drive it on back or logging roads.
Now I could be expecting too much out of the old truck. After rebuilding all of the rear suspension (urethane bushings, new shocks, etc.) and seeing the difference, new torsion bars are a no-brainer up front. I'd like to only go into the front suspension once since I'm replace all of the control arm bushings with urethane, all of the ball joints, and the wheel bearings/seals have already been done.

I know exactly what you mean by the "dancing". However, it's not a spring issue, it's shock issue. Believe me I have stock bars and my truck is rock solid with these new shocks. High speed roads are a blast.

I'm just warning you about the stiffer bars, they will make the ride stiffer. I mean stiff as in less comfortable. Also, on the trail, you will lift a tire sooner and get stuck more. Believe me, those torsion bars have been around for years and many a truck have removed them for these reasons.

The only reason to get them is if you want less flex.

It's your truck, I just don't want you to go into this with the impression you are going to get anything more than stiffer suspension.

Frank

 

[77'911]

Thanks for the comments. What shocks are you running? We were in a rush one summer and I put oem factory units(tokico) on which was a mistake, too soft. I'd had wanted to put on Bilstein HD's but did not have time to wait for an order to come in. Repairing this truck is a bit like a disease, once I fix or repair something another shortcoming seems to pop up. I sort of expect this though with a truck of this age. It is truely coming around though. My cousin who was visiting and had driven it before, took it out and could not believe it was the same truck.
One of our vehicles has a Koni race set-up and the other two have factory ordered sport suspensions(SACHS & Bilstein), so we like them with less flex here. I'm not too worried about the torsion set-up. Once the bushings have been changed out and the corrosion is out of there, torsion bar change outs will be easy, or easier.

 

[elripster]

I'm running Doetsch Tech 8000 series (8069) prerunner shocks. Unlike the Bilstein, they are compatible with my ball joint spacers. You might like them. They have a lot of oil and have this extra rubber bushing that acts as an auxiliary bumpstop. I take an impact much better without bottoming out hard.

I do both trails and sand stuff so flex is very important as is the ability to absorb impact. Stock bars with these shocks give me both.

Check out www.sdori.com and there's a picture of my truck jumping and on the trail.

There are lots of other shocks and honestly, unless you are into the sand or high speed stuff OME, etc... will work very well. This shock is just more designed for heavy use. It's rides stiffer than the Monroes I had but I like it. The truck settles out very quickly.

Frank

 

[ovrrdrive]

Downey makes a 24mm bar that is pretty well respected. One of their selling points is that you can preload in some lift and they will actually have a lower spring rate than a stock bar.

Many people make the mistake of dropping in a heavy duty tbar because they think it will be better but heavy rate tbars actually limit flex and make the ride choppy. It's like throwing in a helper spring in the rear leaf pack.

I can't help much on the bushing discussion other than to say that I need to do them too. Will definitely be a weekend long job though and have the truck back at the alignment shop Monday morning.

Btw, in case you guys don't know elripster, he makes the ball joint spacers that so many of us run in our trucks. He posts a lot in some of the other forums I frequent and is always giving good advice and help. He knows his stuff...

Good to see you getting around Frank.

 

[77'911]

24mm torsion bars...

The only problem with the 24mm Downey bars is per their website , they are designed for the pick-up. They had the 26mm versions for the 4WD 4runner, which is probably firmer then I want to go since the truck will never be off roaded. My thinking was to experiment with the SAW 25mm bars and different shocks(oem, bilstein, rancho, etc.). One aspect I liked about the SAW units is they have put alot of development into the program and had access to factory specs/R&D. I have till the end of the week to make up my mind.

 

[elripster]

Re: 24mm torsion bars...

The only problem with the 24mm Downey bars is per their website , they are designed for the pick-up. They had the 26mm versions for the 4WD 4runner, which is probably firmer then I want to go since the truck will never be off roaded. My thinking was to experiment with the SAW 25mm bars and different shocks(oem, bilstein, rancho, etc.). One aspect I liked about the SAW units is they have put alot of development into the program and had access to factory specs/R&D. I have till the end of the week to make up my mind.

Don't read too much into that. It's just a round bar. Not much to it.

If your truck will never be off roaded you have absolutely no compelling reason to replace the torsion bars. Honestly, there HAS to be another mod you could do that would work better for you.

I would suggest you get new shocks and drive the truck with the stock bars. Then, if you feel it rides too smooth get stiffer ones.

This is a very strange thread. Never in all my years have I encountered a situation where someone thinks a much stiffer bar will do anything but hurt the on road ride. That you intend to only use the truck on road makes all the more perplexing.

Do you realize you are going the opposite direction of where is sounds like you want to go?

Frank

 

[77'911]

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Ironically, the truck has new oem shocks on it and still has way too much front end flex. Went today and order torsion adjuster bolt hardware just incase one or two get cooked in the process.
I agree with you though, it will probably end up with a stiffer set of shocks. Putting less flex, through a larger diameter torsion bar does not necessarily mean less comfort. It really depends on what someone wants handling wise. My guess is some people might think the urethane bushings I've installed throughout the truck make it too stiff. Frankly, I think it was a vast improvement and a no-brainer, especially since its such an inexpensive improvement.

 

[elripster]

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Ironically, the truck has new oem shocks on it and still has way too much front end flex. Went today and order torsion adjuster bolt hardware just incase one or two get cooked in the process.
I agree with you though, it will probably end up with a stiffer set of shocks. Putting less flex, through a larger diameter torsion bar does not necessarily mean less comfort. It really depends on what someone wants handling wise. My guess is some people might think the urethane bushings I've installed throughout the truck make it too stiff. Frankly, I think it was a vast improvement and a no-brainer, especially since its such an inexpensive improvement.

I hope it works for you. I mean most of us see stiffer bars as a drawback (not an improvement) but to each his/her own.

If you like stiff and flexless, you'll like 'em. However, if you don't get shocks with more damping, the front will still bounce all over, just at a higher frequency.

Springs affect the frequency of the oscillation, shocks affect how fast the oscillation is damped.

Frank