2003 T4R Right Front Axle Creaking

[werminghausen]

I need some advise.

My good old T4R is creaking whenever I turn the steering wheel. The noise comes from the right front axle.
I was suspecting the sway bar link (I had this before)...so I removed the Z-joint and it seems to be good, the sound did not come from there.

Then I was crawling under the front axle and my wife was turning the steering wheel forth and back. The creaking noise was very loud but I could not figure out where the noise was originating.

So far I was thinking (while driving) the noise came primarily from the right suspension moving up/down [and the noise from the steering action came as an indirectly result].
As of today I am thinking the noise is coming primarily from the steering [ and the noise from suspension is secondary effect].

This seems to be confirmed after crawling under the right front. With turning the steering wheel forth and back- and the suspension not moving in P- the noise is coming from the front axle rotation by steering.
So which of front wheel joints can it be?

1) frozen lower control arm ball joint
2) frozen upper control arm ball joint
3) frozen steering arm ball joint
4) steering piston
5) sway bar ball joints (this link is not the problem)

I am curious what experiences you have with this noise.

Thank you, Martin

 

[Moist]

I need some advise.

My good old T4R is creaking whenever I turn the steering wheel. The noise comes from the right front axle.
I was suspecting the sway bar link (I had this before)...so I removed the Z-joint and it seems to be good, the sound did not come from there.

Then I was crawling under the front axle and my wife was turning the steering wheel forth and back. The creaking noise was very loud but I could not figure out where the noise was originating.

So far I was thinking (while driving) the noise came primarily from the right suspension moving up/down [and the noise from the steering action came as an indirectly result].
As of today I am thinking the noise is coming primarily from the steering [ and the noise from suspension is secondary effect].

This seems to be confirmed after crawling under the right front. With turning the steering wheel forth and back- and the suspension not moving in P- the noise is coming from the front axle rotation by steering.
So which of front wheel joints can it be?

1) frozen lower control arm ball joint
2) frozen upper control arm ball joint
3) frozen steering arm ball joint
4) steering piston
5) sway bar ball joints (this link is not the problem)

I am curious what experiences you have with this noise.

Thank you, Martin

Any leaks from steering? Any weird handling? (especially near the limits of the driving envelope)

I have something similar when steering to the left and moving, granted my steering rack is dying (seal failed on a piston, fluid leaking into inner tie rods.)

Otherwise I recommend jacking the car up and looking for play in the wheels. Start unloaded then try again with a loaded test, should be able to gauge steering and ball joints.

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks Moist and all

Steering was one of my top suspicions in the beginning.
I checked fluid level and all seems to be fine, there are no fluid losses that I can see.

So I checked further. In my last report I had the car in P and my wife started the engine and was moving the steering wheel while I was underneath, looking and listening.

When I am driving the noise is very present while steering and driving slowly
on our driveway. It will make the same noise when going through potholes and not moving the steering wheel.

Then on the road the creaking fades and I cannot hear the noise while driving.
The creaking might be overshadowed by the engine and other noises during driving but it seems that at say 30mph and steering I can't hear anything.... but if I go over a bump at 30mph I'd hear the noise while the suspension is moving.

So I am not so sure what is starting the noise: Steering or Suspension.

Steering and Suspension: both are related and moving one is causing the other to move as well.

Another test was: With the car parking I was pulling the right side front fender up an inch or two and let it drop (and repeating this). And by doing this suspension movement the creaking is very obvious and it looks like at this point that the noise is caused by the suspension primarily and the steering is activating the noise as a side effect.

I am back at square one now. I started with the sense that the problem is a malfunctioning member in the suspension and I was side tracked by the creaking by moving the steering wheel in P.

Back to my initial list of potential bad members

1) frozen lower control arm ball joint
2) frozen upper control arm ball joint
3) frozen steering arm ball joint
4) steering piston
5) sway bar ball joints (this link is not the problem)

My first suspect was #5. I removed the sway bar link and tested it and it moves absolutely well. This is not it.
#4 and #3 steering: I think today that steering rack should be fine. No leak detected.

Upper and Lower Control Arms seem to be next on the list
How can I isolate and test these upper vs the lower CA?
Each CA has the 2 rotating joints (are these rubber embedded joints?) and one ball joint?


What do you think?

Thank you all for your expertise

Martin

 

[werminghausen]

This sqeaking sound problem does not seem to interest a lot of people.
So I tried to search the internet under 'Creaking noise when turning the steering wheel Inspection Service '.
Here is what popped up.

"Common reasons for this to happen:
Worn Shocks/Struts: Your shocks and struts are most likely the gas-filled type. They’re good at what they do, but they do wear out. If you’ve noticed fluid on the side of one of your front shocks, chances are good that it’s blown and needs to be replaced. You may also notice that your car feels very loose and bouncy when going over bumps or through turns.

Dry Jounce Bushing: The jounce bushing is located at the top of the front strut. If it’s dry, it can cause a groaning/creaking sound during turns. If not repaired, this problem can become more serious.

Dry/Damaged Suspension Bushings: Bushings wear out over time. Eventually, they crack, deteriorate, and must be replaced. It’s possible that this is causing the creaking while turning the steering wheel.

Worn Ball Joints: Ball joints allow control arms and steering knuckles to adjust to movement. They must be well lubricated in order to do their job, but the grease can wear out over time. When this occurs, expect to experience noise and deterioration.

Damaged Tie Rod Ends: Tie rods connect your steering system to help move the wheels when you turn your steering wheel. Creaking while turning can be a sign of damaged tie rods, but it’s more usual to hear a knocking sound when making tight, low-speed turns.

Damaged Power Steering Pump/Rack/Belt: Usually, problems with the power steering rack, pump or belt cause a whining sound, more noticeable during low speed turns. However, that can be mistaken for a creaking sound."

The only new thing here is the strut. Yes, of course, how could I forget. I need to put that on my list.
I installed 4 new Bilstein struts about 5 Years ago and I did not think that they might cause the problem... but who knows.

I remember when I was under the car the other day and my wife turned the steering wheel there was the creaking but also a stotter movement or vibration when I put my hand on the steering knuckle, control arm or tie rod. I could not figure out where that stutter originated.
Is there a way to 'hear' where the sound is coming from? Maybe with a stethoscope?

Where am I going from here?

Martin

 

[werminghausen]

And so the creaking/squeaking reflection continues.

This week I found out something new.

I think I heard that the creaking from the steering and the sqeaking from going through a pothole are two distinct sounds.
Even though they would appear to be similar the more I listen to them I can distinguish them.

What if there is one problem with the steering and another problem with the right side suspension?

Martin

 

[rdruss]

And so the creaking/squeaking reflection continues.

This week I found out something new.

I think I heard that the creaking from the steering and the sqeaking from going through a pothole are two distinct sounds.
Even though they would appear to be similar the more I listen to them I can distinguish them.

What if there is one problem with the steering and another problem with the right side suspension?

Martin

Then you would have two problems to sort out.

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks rdruss,
that is a good analysis.

Yes 2 problems at once, it seems to be that way.
Who can help to tackle the steering. What can go wrong here that causes this noise?
Martin

 

[rdruss]

Thanks rdruss,
that is a good analysis.

Yes 2 problems at once, it seems to be that way.
Who can help to tackle the steering. What can go wrong here that causes this noise?
Martin

Mine didn't make noise, just "stiff" steering, but the joint midway in the steering shaft is prone to failure. It has a small u-joint and that eventually starts to seize, it slides over the steering box shaft on lower end and is disconnected at the top in the engine compartment, through the wheel well.
It's a little bit of a pita, but you can do it. New shaft is less than $200.

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks rdruss,

I may have a different issue with the steering. The u-joint would make a noise at any rotation of the steering wheel? This is not the case.
I was sitting in the parked car and turned the wheel. I can turn the wheel quite a bit until the rubber of tire start sliding on the asphalt and only when the sliding happens it seems to create the sound...
I cannot explain why this is so.

 

[kyle_pc_75]

I also have the creaking sound on slow speed turning. It seems worse in reverse. I didnt notice it until I replaced the broken steering rack, u-joint, upper and lower control arms. Also one CV axle. I'll let you know if I pinpoint it.

 

[kyle_pc_75]

For what it's worth, I replaced the TC arms in my signature with adjustable SPC's.

 

[kyle_pc_75]

Mine seems to be coming from the u-joint on the steering shaft, though I replaced it when i did the rack.

 

[werminghausen]

Thanks kyle,

if you replaced the steering shaft then the u- joint creaking cannot happen any more. The sound is somewhere else.
I don't think your A-arm replacement can the source either.

You replaced the lower CA ball joint... what about the sway bar joint? I had this one before.

Martin

 

[kyle_pc_75]

The only reason I suspect a new u-joint on the steering shaft could be the issue is that I have a body lift, so the angle is a bit more than it'd be stock. Going to dig into it this weekend hopefully, it's definitely somewhere along the shaft, could be the splines slipping....

 

[kyle_pc_75]

Just following up as I solved my issue. The threads on the pinch bolt on at the joint between the lower steering shaft and rack had started to strip out a bit, allowing just enough play for the steering to slip one spline at a time, but only with the engine off (i.e. no power steering assistance). With time it would've gotten worse and could've been disastrous. I replaced the shaft and bolt and locktighted the bolt in place.