2004 Limited Edition 4Runner 4X4 - Head Gasket

[snobinge]

Well I just found this thread after starting my own thread asking for advice on rough Idle and dash lights. Funny thing is I was talking to my Dad about what was going on with my 4runner and he said he had the same issues, but they went away with plug and coil change.

I guess we have 2 more HG issues! Mine is an 04' Sport with 128k. My Dad's is an 05' Sport with similar mileage. Both one owner vehicles with regular maintenance...bummer! I sure wish Toyota would step up on this issue!

 

[djnimbus]

Ok... so my fiance's 2004 4Runner ( V6 ) has the same exact problems verbatum.

Was mis-diagnosed with the ignition coil pack for cyl 6, then it was replace the injectors ( all 6 of them ). After doing that and still arriving with the same symptoms and just shy of $1000 in repairs done that didn't fix th e problem, I found this thread. I called Toyota, told them what I discovered based on this thread, and the likelihood of it being a leaking head gasket, they took it back and looked at it a 2nd time, and discovered what they did not find the first time they claimed to do a leak down test & compression test.

Now, the repair is either $5800 to change out the gasket and re-machine the heads, or replace the motor for $7000.

The engine is not blown, and runs fine, but I ( as an engineer ) do believe there is a design issue. It does have 167k on it, but a non-mechanical part failure that is consistent in it's failings to a specific region, I don't think is mere coincidence. I have a feeling that this is going to become more prevalent. Part of the problem is most people are not going to do their due diligence and follow through with reporting problems like this.

I really think it would take a class action suit with enough members to make Toyota move. I spoke to the 800 number for Toyota, which was useless. A case number and a sorry, you have too many miles speech is worthless.

 

[Greydog]

$5800 is high, most get quotes in the 3500 range from dealers.

Shop it around to other dealers and good independents.

Perhaps get pricing comparisons, meet with the manager and ask them to eat the $1k you already spent.

It's a huge PIA but they seem to be on the very high end.

 

[jake87toy]

I'm in the same boat. We have an 04 v6 with 120k. Dealer quoted $2500 for the repair not Including possible machining costs. Toyota has redesigned their head gaskets for this engine. There is a problem and I believe Toyota is not wanting to admit it. Ours currently has the same symptoms. Cold starting it runs rough for 30 seconds, kicks on the 3 lights, then smooths out and the lights go off.

 

[toyo]

Lordy be! It is simply amazing how all of a sudden these guys are coming here stating head gasket problems. I don't believe half of this crap. I am good friends with 2 lead techs at 2 local Atlanta dealers and neither one of them has seen this issue.
Another thing that chaps my ass is when guys claim that Toyota needs to issue a recall! Go study what a recall is and get back to us. If Toyota or ANY manufacture wanted to help it's customers if this is really a major issue would be to do a special service campaign. Does anybody remember the 2nd Gen 4R head gasket problem? They extended that repair for 150K and 6 or 8 years, can't remember exactly.
BTW. The customer pay labor time on a 2007 V6 HG is 15.7 hours for one side and 18.6 for both. The current part# is 1111531031 for the RT side. 1111631011 for the left side.

 

[jake87toy]

Don't believe it all you want. Today the lights stayed on. I'm dropping it off at the Toyota dealer tomorrow so they can start it cold Sunday. I will post photos of the receipts when I get the inspection done Monday. Then will post the receipt for the work when done. Stay tuned. I'm telling no lie. Wish I was.

 

[Sporin]

I don't think it's people lying, what would be the point of that?

It's the same phenomenon you see with any issue... people come on line to find answers and commiserate when they find a problem. People (generally) don't come online to say... "Hey all, just checking in to say my HG is fine."

I've seen this issue with other things like VW's TDI's "blowing fuel pumps " and destroying engines. If all you did was look online, you would think that this was happening to every single TDI out there. But in reality, it's very a rare event.

I was making myself crazy about the HG reading this forum and getting back up to speed on 4th gens. I would listen like an OCD Paranoid at every cold start up for any sign of rough running or hesitation (there was none).

So I asked a Toyota Tech in our 4x4 club about the headgasket issue and he says that, while they see a TON of these motors, he can remember just one that needed a HG done. That one is FAR outweighed my the number that come in with 200k+ miles on them and no issues. However, if you read this forum or other 120 forums only, you'd think that the #6 HG failure afflicted every single V6 ever built.

 

[JB.]

I don't think it's people lying, what would be the point of that?

It's the same phenomenon you see with any issue...

Many are obviously legit, but this thread is different from the typical generic types you referred to.

It was started by a well known troll who used the screen name only once and was then backed up by a bunch of 1-post-wonders.

It should continue to be a thread where the issue is discussed, but people should realize that the head gasket failure rate this particular thread seems to imply is exaggerated beyond that of a typical internet thread.

Ironically, the uncertain amount of troll influence in this thread has helped raise the bar on information quality, which is a good thing.

 

[Sporin]

Fair enough I guess, ANYTHING you read online needs to be vetted properly, that's for sure.

What's the saying? "trust, but verify."

 

[jake87toy]

Okay guys, here is a current update from Toyota. They have had my 4runner for two overnights now trying to diagnose my problem. First morning ran rough and threw codes then went off. They pressure checked the coolant system and it held pressure just fine so they said they do not believe a head gasket issue. I told them to keep it again and pressure check it again the following morning while cold. Same thing, coolant system held pressure fine. They started it for the second morning cold now and it again threw the misfire code. My service adviser has no clue at at this point what the problem is. The previous owner had it at the Toyota dealership about 3 months ago for the same P0306 cyl6 misfire at which time they replaced an injector and said it was good to go. Now at this point Toyota has had my vehicle for nearly 48hours and still do not have an answer for me as to what the problem is. Very frustrating. Outcome to follow.

 

[jake87toy]

They reset the computer and now say the misfire jumped to cylinder 1 from cylinder 6. Doesn't make much sense to me. Now they are keeping it over night AGAIN for a 3rd cold start in the morning. He also said they have not completely ruled out head gasket!?!? Sounds like they don't have a clue still. They said this has been a very difficult diagnosis for them. Hopefully they have it figured out sometime tomorrow.

 

[Greydog]

Did they check culinder 6 or 1 for presence of coolant, with a borescope or something other than a pressure test?

I think alot of guys had trouble nailing it down until the borescope test.

Also, if there are alot of hydrocarbons in coolant that can also be a HG diagnosis method, but actual coolant in the cylinder is best method I think.

 

[jake87toy]

Yes, on day 1 my adviser said they did scope the cylinder and it looked fine he said. Problem is that they did so after they had started it and let it run. Makes no sense to me to scope it after running. Seems like they should have done the scope first to see if any coolant had leaked over night. Day two (today) he said that they stuck a long q-tip in the cylinder and said it looked fine. I told him on the phone today that I think they should scope it in the morning before starting it. They are trying to create the misfire fire but it only seems to do it for 20-30 seconds on cold start after sitting all night. I'm just hoping they have an answer for me tomorrow.

 

[Calimander]

You have joined the bad V6 headgasket club. It has had a bad one since before you owned it. I think the previous owner researched it and came to that conclusion and unloaded it. I would want some restitution for the upcoming replacement bill. A good number of us have been through this exact experience and it follows the same path everytime. The dealer throws a coil pack at it and says its fixed, you come back after researching it and tell them you want a leakdown test and , holy sh#%, they find the coolant in #6. Good luck.

 

[jake87toy]

Just got off the phone with Toyota. It's official now guys. HEAD GASKET IS LEAKING. They have had it for three overnights now and they said they left it on a leak down test over night. The head gasket is leaking on the #6 cylinder. So simply by my research on this site and others I had the diagnosis correct and it took Toyota 3 1/2 days to admit it. It had exact symptoms as others have stated. It only has 120k and meticulous records / oil changes / services. I am totally bummed out at the expense involved. I do still love the rig and will have it fixed. Those that don't believe, it is in fact happening. Nothing like the old 3.0 problem, but a problem none the less.

 

[KMG1981]

I've had a 2005 SR5 4Runner V6 for nine years now. I bought my 4Runner brand new. I've had scheduled maintenance performed each time at the dealership. I think the most mileage I ever exceeded between scheduled maintenance was 4,000 miles over the 3,000 suggested oil change (3,0000 + 4,0000 = I got the oil changed at 7k) . And all of this was performed at the dealership.

Fast forward, I'm at 167,400 miles. Here are the only issues I've had with the vehicle:
1) When I first purchased it, it pulled right after wheel balancing and extensive alignment procedures. The service manager drove with me and said it did what I said it did and had a Toyota Field Technical Specialist said it was because of crowned roads. They provided me a loaner car. The Toyota FTS came in after I was there and left before I came back. I had no chance to ask him any questions.

2) The calipers sticking.

3) Last week I threw a CEL and checked the OCB, I actually had a P0302, cylinder 2 misfire. I did a tune-up myself (thanks to this board for the assistance) to see if it was a bad spark-plug. I changed the coil, both times I reset the battery and the CEL came on after two days.

I had the car in for service two months prior to this, March 2014 for the calipers. Nothing was strange, I didn't have to add coolant, or add extra oil. One week before the CEL came on, I did start the car and I felt a small rough idle. It went away and I thought nothing of it. As soon as the CEL came on, there was a rough idle to start, then when I got over 10 mph, everything was fine. Even the fuel economy didn't suffer.

It tested positive for hydrocarbons in the coolant, and the borescope confirmed it. I have a blown head gasket.

Quote from the dealership: $3550.00 for both head-gaskets and that's without finding anything else.

4) PS Steering return line leak: I also noticed my PS fluid leaking everywhere. The dealership said $130 to cut the line, install a hose, and clamp it. $750 to try to run a line and risk snapping something on the PS system. I couldn't hear exactly what the Service Advisor was saying, he was talking so darn fast about my option. He also said they could re-do the entire power-steering line system for $2100. I am going with the $130 "band-aid" fix for now.

So that's where I am. I do drive the car a lot obviously, but I purchased a Toyota for reliability. Toyotas are known for taking a "beating" if you service the car regularly.

So I guess this is what I've learned so far:

Regarding the head-gasket and the frozen caliper:
Toyota is now a corporation that believes it's consumer is the typical consumer. You and I will never "own" our cars but just trade it in every four or five years. Therefore, the design isn't essentially for the long-haul.

The reason why the HG goes is because of the thermal expansion associated with the aluminum engine. The Service Manager looked up the head gasket, because people on here say it's been re-designed, and he said there's a single digit number change which usually indicates a manufacturer change. Has anyone from Toyota ever confirmed there's been a HG re-design?

Yes, I have 167,000 on the car. No doubt there will be wear and tear. However, I expected this on a Toyota around 220k - 250k. I wouldn't feel somewhat confused because I have taken care of the vehicle. So I believe Toyota is using it's reputation. I gave the go-ahead for the HG replacement for the quoted amount and I've got my fingers crossed the block isn't deformed or anything is too warped for the repair to take place.

After I save up more, I'll tackle the steering next. Cost isn't a serious issue for me. It's the reliability factor. I have taken care of the car. The car according to KBB is only worth $6,000-$7,000. I considered trading it in, putting down a sizable down-payment, and financing the rest for a new car. But SUVs and trucks have drastically changed in the past 9 years.

I'm in a 2013 or 2012 Toyota Corolla Loaner car. The instruments and interior is so bad and feels extremely cheap. And getting up to highway speeds makes me cringe about how hot the engine inside is actually getting. And don't get me started on a new 4Runner.

I think this summer I'm going to try to find a V8 between 2006 and 2009 to purchase.

 

[stanleybb50]

I've had a 2005 SR5 4Runner V6 for nine years now. I bought my 4Runner brand new. I've had scheduled maintenance performed each time at the dealership. I think the most mileage I ever exceeded between scheduled maintenance was 4,000 miles over the 3,000 suggested oil change (3,0000 + 4,0000 = I got the oil changed at 7k) . And all of this was performed at the dealership.

Fast forward, I'm at 167,400 miles. Here are the only issues I've had with the vehicle:
1) When I first purchased it, it pulled right after wheel balancing and extensive alignment procedures. The service manager drove with me and said it did what I said it did and had a Toyota Field Technical Specialist said it was because of crowned roads. They provided me a loaner car. The Toyota FTS came in after I was there and left before I came back. I had no chance to ask him any questions.

2) The calipers sticking.

3) Last week I threw a CEL and checked the OCB, I actually had a P0302, cylinder 2 misfire. I did a tune-up myself (thanks to this board for the assistance) to see if it was a bad spark-plug. I changed the coil, both times I reset the battery and the CEL came on after two days.

I had the car in for service two months prior to this, March 2014 for the calipers. Nothing was strange, I didn't have to add coolant, or add extra oil. One week before the CEL came on, I did start the car and I felt a small rough idle. It went away and I thought nothing of it. As soon as the CEL came on, there was a rough idle to start, then when I got over 10 mph, everything was fine. Even the fuel economy didn't suffer.

It tested positive for hydrocarbons in the coolant, and the borescope confirmed it. I have a blown head gasket.

Quote from the dealership: $3550.00 for both head-gaskets and that's without finding anything else.

4) PS Steering return line leak: I also noticed my PS fluid leaking everywhere. The dealership said $130 to cut the line, install a hose, and clamp it. $750 to try to run a line and risk snapping something on the PS system. I couldn't hear exactly what the Service Advisor was saying, he was talking so darn fast about my option. He also said they could re-do the entire power-steering line system for $2100. I am going with the $130 "band-aid" fix for now.

So that's where I am. I do drive the car a lot obviously, but I purchased a Toyota for reliability. Toyotas are known for taking a "beating" if you service the car regularly.

So I guess this is what I've learned so far:

Regarding the head-gasket and the frozen caliper:
Toyota is now a corporation that believes it's consumer is the typical consumer. You and I will never "own" our cars but just trade it in every four or five years. Therefore, the design isn't essentially for the long-haul.

The reason why the HG goes is because of the thermal expansion associated with the aluminum engine. The Service Manager looked up the head gasket, because people on here say it's been re-designed, and he said there's a single digit number change which usually indicates a manufacturer change. Has anyone from Toyota ever confirmed there's been a HG re-design?

Yes, I have 167,000 on the car. No doubt there will be wear and tear. However, I expected this on a Toyota around 220k - 250k. I wouldn't feel somewhat confused because I have taken care of the vehicle. So I believe Toyota is using it's reputation. I gave the go-ahead for the HG replacement for the quoted amount and I've got my fingers crossed the block isn't deformed or anything is too warped for the repair to take place.

After I save up more, I'll tackle the steering next. Cost isn't a serious issue for me. It's the reliability factor. I have taken care of the car. The car according to KBB is only worth $6,000-$7,000. I considered trading it in, putting down a sizable down-payment, and financing the rest for a new car. But SUVs and trucks have drastically changed in the past 9 years.

I'm in a 2013 or 2012 Toyota Corolla Loaner car. The instruments and interior is so bad and feels extremely cheap. And getting up to highway speeds makes me cringe about how hot the engine inside is actually getting. And don't get me started on a new 4Runner.

I think this summer I'm going to try to find a V8 between 2006 and 2009 to purchase.

Man.. Don't do that. I love my v8 - but after the head gasket replacement/etc, you'll have your issues sorted with a car you know the mainenance on... I would certainly keep it after all of that if I were you.

I just mean you're hardly gaining anything by doing that - know what I mean?

 

[KMG1981]

I forgot to mention, I'm going to try to find a V8 in addition to this V6 which I'm obviously going to keep for reasons you mentioned.

My logic is that I need a second car anyways for my family. Therefore, I can be extremely careful in finding a good used V8 from an owner who wants to trade it in for something newer. I've heard the V8 engines were made of iron, some may have manifold issues, but are essentially transplanted Land Cruiser engines that can take a beating.

And I suppose I'm a noob here. I've had my 4Runner for nine years and never posted or joined the forums because I never had any problems. I read the forums for preventive measures and detailing tips.

 

[NCSCOTT]

Another 04

No Troll Here!! Been around since 2005.

04 150,XXX miles. Rough starts for the last week, 20-30 seconds then smooths out. Threw P0306 & P0300 code this AM. I have an inexpensive code reader with live data. Coolant was low enough over the winter for the heater not to work unless moving, but never over heated, that I know of, could have caused hot spots I would think thou. The coolant went somewhere!! Nothing on the ground ever. No smell under hood prior to flush, but of course after that there was for a couple weeks. R&Red all coolant using radiator & block drains ect a couple months ago. So I know coolant was full. Checked it daily for a week after replacing it. Checked coolant this am, reservoir was empty, and pulled radiator cap and I could not see coolant. Also when started this am I heard bubbling from under the dash, heard this over the winter too when coolant was low. Added approx. 2-3 Quarts of 50/50 mix, peak global Lifetime, Yellow coolant, which I used when it was flushed. I've never seen white smoke at start up but I also have not really been looking for it, I will now. No water in the oil that I can tell, It does not appear to be "Making oil" Level was normal this am, needs a change, less than a half a quart down from full mark after 6500 miles. It has never used oil!! Drives fine after first 20-30 secs.

When coolant was low over the winter I as only looking at the reservoir and not opening the cap at first. It was in the normal range even thou you could not see any in the radiator once I finally opened the cap.

Overall I think my HG has been going for about a year now. Looking back very subtle hints along the way. I'm on the fence about fixing it. Likely only get $4-5K trade-in if I can hide the problem and dump it on a dealer, body is straight but paint is just average.

I'm a bit pissed I just flushed 16 quarts of tranny fluid through it, put 5100s on the front w/ new springs 2.5-2.75" lift, FJ Springs in the rear, all new sway bar bushings and end links front and rear, new splash guards in the front wheel wheels (old ones dry rotted away) and spidertrax in the last 4 months.

I've replaced all 4 wheel bearings since 108k miles. Only one was bad (left rear) but took me 4 tries to get it right, I know pretty sad!! Frozen front caliper about a year ago, 2 new front calipers and new pads and rotors all around at that point.

Its not 100% confirmed blown Head Gasket but very likely at this point.

even saw this listing today, see pic. Craigslist Raleigh, NC.

 

[morphious]

If you have a blown HG please post to my thread so I can capture the information.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/168776-head-gasket-survey-specifically-v6.html

So far on the list: