RaginCajun013
New member
Am I doing the right thing by going through arbitration, or is it worth my time trying to go through the dealer first?
**2005 4runner Lemon???**
- Thread starter RaginCajun013
- Start date
tipotex
New member
Whoa there. Presumably the arbitral process was suggested by Toyota USA? I haven't gone back to look at my warranty materials for dispute resolution agreements, so this is off the cuff. But before heading into arbitration, especially within the month, be sure what costs you may be required to pay, be familiar with what to expect in and from the arbitration process, and most of all, be aware that a final, binding arbitration typically is subject to highly deferential judicial review, meaning that if you're unhappy with the outcome, you may have little to no right to any subsequent judicial relief.
Don't get me wrong, arbitration might be great, it might turn out well. Arbitration can be a great time- and cost-saving method of getting a resolution. But you will need to be prepared, and you need to understand the potential ramifications for your claim.
Backing up a step, and acknowledging that you are not happy having to deal with these issues with an essentially brand new car, how has the vehicle behaved since the dealer's last "fix"? If it's running well, you may not be in a good position to expect much in the way of relief. If not, document the black smoke and knocking/poor shifting, whatever, with video.
Most of all, make sure you know what qualifies as a "lemon" under your state's lemon law. The bottom line is going to be whether you can prove that your situation meets that standard.
This is all assuming that you're talking about a formal, binding arbitration process. If this is something else, ie, some sort of informal statement of a claim before a neutral third party who can "suggest" a resolution, then you've got a lot less to lose.
Don't get me wrong, arbitration might be great, it might turn out well. Arbitration can be a great time- and cost-saving method of getting a resolution. But you will need to be prepared, and you need to understand the potential ramifications for your claim.
Backing up a step, and acknowledging that you are not happy having to deal with these issues with an essentially brand new car, how has the vehicle behaved since the dealer's last "fix"? If it's running well, you may not be in a good position to expect much in the way of relief. If not, document the black smoke and knocking/poor shifting, whatever, with video.
Most of all, make sure you know what qualifies as a "lemon" under your state's lemon law. The bottom line is going to be whether you can prove that your situation meets that standard.
This is all assuming that you're talking about a formal, binding arbitration process. If this is something else, ie, some sort of informal statement of a claim before a neutral third party who can "suggest" a resolution, then you've got a lot less to lose.
RaginCajun013
New member
from what I understand from reading the warranty book and talking to Toyota, the arbitration process will be free to me. This I am certain of. The "independant" agency conducting the investigation will want to see evidence of my claim, which I can provide, and they will talk to the servicing dealer. The dealer told me that I was one of 3 4runners with this problem reported in the US. I believe that this fact alone entitles me to a new vehicle. Obviously, if this is true, my truck is not the same as other 4Runners. is my logic correct??
rando
Senior Member
RaginCajun013 said:
I had almost the exact same situation happen to me with my (former) 2002 Explorer. It's tranny went out after only 1200 miles. The 2nd one died after about 400 more miles. The third one was a rebuilt and because the total time the truck spent in the shop was 30 days, I was able to compell Ford to do the lemon buy back. Of course, even then I needed the help of an attorney. I was every bit as upset as you are now and went through most of the same thought processes you've been expressing.
Here's the bad news. Based on my research at the time, I believe the chance of getting a new truck through the arbitration process to be next to ZERO; even if your case clearly met the requirements of the lemon law in your state. If your truck is now repaired, your chances are even less (yes, less than ZERO). At most the process is going to consume a significant amount of your time and you'll probably be offered a free extended warranty or some such. Most likely you can negote that kind of settlement directly with Toyota's customer service people right over the phone without the delay or false hope of arbitration.
If you have met the requirements for the lemon law in your area(usually a certain number of failed attempts for IDENTICAL significant flaws and/or a certain number of days in the shop with the first X time of ownership) then consider contacting an attorney. There are many who specialize in lemon law cases that will take your case on contingency. Basically, they review the facts of your case and more or less already know if they can get you a quick settlement. If not, they won't take it and then you'll know your chances.
If you have further problems with your truck; make sure your service writer documents the problems IN YOUR WORDS EXACTLY. Make sure the description you use is IDENTICAL each time. Make sure you get a copy of the work-order AND the invoice upon completion of the work. Insist that the invoice include the problem (in your words), the resolution, the date/time/mileage the car was dropped off, work was completed, and the car was picked up. NEVER pick up your car without receiving the final invoice with all the information above. As you get close to meeting the lemon requirements, the dealer service shop will find all sorts of reasons to muck up the paperwork, or avoid giving it to you at all. The auto manufacturers are well versed in this game and will use any possible angle to avoid the buy-back.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I know EXACTLY how you feel!
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RaginCajun013
New member
Toyota has the transmission that they replaced, and the new one did the exact same thing. They added extra transmission fluid?? and claimed it would fix it. I have had it back for a couple days with no problems so far, but I am fairly certain the problem will come back soon. Something with the truck just doesnt feel right, but I cant put my finger on it.
Everyone try this --- Get up to about 30 mph on a flat road, and slam on the brakes. after the truck has come to a complete stop, immediately hit the gas. That is the circumstances that mine failed under, like clockwork.
Everyone try this --- Get up to about 30 mph on a flat road, and slam on the brakes. after the truck has come to a complete stop, immediately hit the gas. That is the circumstances that mine failed under, like clockwork.
tipotex
New member
Following up on RaginCajun's concern about his transmission being overfilled by the dealer, I am wondering: since this is a sealed unit, would it have anything other than a fill-plug on the side? Seems like it would be difficult to overfill in that case, as any "extra" fluid would quickly run out.
I'd step out and take a look at mine, but the other half is driving it today...
I'd step out and take a look at mine, but the other half is driving it today...
CVsGX470
New member
I believe what you are experiencing happened to all the 03 owners at one time...but not at the level you are referring to. If you do a search under problems and warranty you may find a thread to two that describes what happens to our trucks when we do the 30mph to stop quickly to acc.
When I stop hard at say a red light at high speed and keep the brake on until I accelerate, I feel a slight nudge or clunk as I let off the brake and press the go pedal. Now, I can't say that my tranny clunk was ever to the extreme that yours is but I know what you are talking about.
Here is a thread that might get you started in the right direction:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1719
CV
When I stop hard at say a red light at high speed and keep the brake on until I accelerate, I feel a slight nudge or clunk as I let off the brake and press the go pedal. Now, I can't say that my tranny clunk was ever to the extreme that yours is but I know what you are talking about.
Here is a thread that might get you started in the right direction:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1719
CV
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CVsGX470
New member
Bluto
New member
beeper said:
Standard warranties on all new vehicles:
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/warranty/warranty.html
Toyota replacement parts warranty applies after the standard warranty expires (transmission is 5/60k).
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/dealers/parts/remanparts.html
