2008 Land Cruiser versus GX470

[BDL]

As you guys may have seen in a couple of other threads I am debating between the 2008 LC and the Lexus GX470. I test drove the LC again today and my wife asked me which one I like better, money aside, and I realized I don't really know. I value the opinions of those on this board because you are all more knowledable than me and you seem much less partisan than those on other boards.

So that's the question - money aside, would you rather have a 2008 LC or a GX 470?

It will be a daily driver for me - back and forth to an office building every day. It will see light / moderate off-roading several times a year (like 4x4 trails in national parks, not real rock-crawling).

My partial list:

Advantages of Land Cruiser:
5.7L engine (quicker, especially passing at highway speeds)
6-spd transmission (no loss in economy versus GX)
KDSS (almost impossible to get on a GX in my market)
Saftey (knee airbags, better headrests)
Burns regular gasoline
Better instrumentation (more gauges, fewer lights)
More ground clearance (slightly)
Crawl control (may never use it)
Towing capacity (ditto)

Advantages of GX:
Much nicer interior
Better angles / rear air suspension
Smaller (no kids and none on horizon - smaller is better for us)
Third-row seats removable, not just foldable
Lexus service
Longer warranty
Proven reliability (not to suggest LC won't be great, but it's in its first model year)

Or is there a third truck I should consider? Or advantages / disadvantages to these that I'm missing? These could be longer lists, but those seem like the big ones.

I know that not everybody has driven an LC yet, but any input is much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read my long post.

 

[Thai]

I would get the TLC, if money is not an issue. The TLC is new...it won't be redesigned for another 7-10 years. The GX will likely get redesigned within the next 2-3 years (at most). For your type of off-roading, these vehicles are overkill. Even though the ground clearance is not much different, keep in mind that TLC has a cleaner underbody than the GX.

IMHO, the TLC is waaayyy overpriced. I would just spend a little more and get the LX570 because, like i said above, with the off-roading that you do, LX570 should be more than enough.

Since you have no kids, why not consider something a lot cheaper and equally unique?? Ex: Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, Toyota FJ Cruiser, Hummer H3 Alpha. Or something more expensive like Mercedes G500?? The G-wagen is much better off-road than TLC/LX (again, overkill for you) and is more unique, but it is not as comfortable, much smaller (good or bad), and eats more gas.

 

[hubbabubba]

Am I allowed to vote?

Since you seem to be on the fence, I would guess that you would be happy with either car. So I would recommend you get the GX and save the extra 20G's.

I obviously made the other choice but I also considered the GX (along with the RangeRover & the GL550).

By the way, have you checked out the LC videos on Toyota's website?

 

[MAC4Runner]

I'd go with the '08 TLC hands down. :biggrin2:

You're comparing two GREAT SUVs so you can't loose either way. Good luck with your decision.

 

[BDL]

Am I allowed to vote?

Since you seem to be on the fence, I would guess that you would be happy with either car. So I would recommend you get the GX and save the extra 20G's.

I obviously made the other choice but I also considered the GX (along with the RangeRover & the GL550).

By the way, have you checked out the LC videos on Toyota's website?

You absolutely get a vote - you already voted in the most meaningful way, with your wallet!

Logic would certainly tell you that if you like two things roughly equally, but one costs $15 - $20k less, you should buy the less expensive one. Maybe I'm falling prey to the LC's 'heritage' and cachet (notwithstanding all the comments people make about it looking like a Hyundai).

I have watched the videos - I particularly like the stream crossing in the Yukon.

 

[BDL]

I would get the TLC, if money is not an issue. The TLC is new...it won't be redesigned for another 7-10 years. The GX will likely get redesigned within the next 2-3 years (at most). For your type of off-roading, these vehicles are overkill. Even though the ground clearance is not much different, keep in mind that TLC has a cleaner underbody than the GX.

IMHO, the TLC is waaayyy overpriced. I would just spend a little more and get the LX570 because, like i said above, with the off-roading that you do, LX570 should be more than enough.

Since you have no kids, why not consider something a lot cheaper and equally unique?? Ex: Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, Toyota FJ Cruiser, Hummer H3 Alpha. Or something more expensive like Mercedes G500?? The G-wagen is much better off-road than TLC/LX (again, overkill for you) and is more unique, but it is not as comfortable, much smaller (good or bad), and eats more gas.

Thanks for all the comments. Depending on who you ask, the GX gets redesigned in either 2009 or 2010 or 2011. Perfect, to me, might be a GX with KDSS and the 5.7L/6spd powertrain. Will they put that powertrain in the 4R/GX line? Will Lexus depart from the 4R platform for the next gen GX? Will they make it bigger, like every other SUV redesign? When will it happen? Can't say - else I'd be tempted to buy the current GX and try to be #1 on the list for the next gen.

I completely agree that the LC is way overpriced. Between the LX above it, the Sequoia below it, and the MB/RR alternatives at a similar price point, I really think Toyota will struggle to sell LCs, much less DOUBLE their US sales as they want to do. So I think that price will be highly negotiable at some point, if it's not already. I've talked to two dealers now and think I can do a very reasonable deal compared to the sticker price. I'd love to have an LX, but the LX, I think, won't be that way. My Lexus dealer allegedly has 150 people with deposits on LXs, and they get 7 trucks for January. Even when they work through that backlog I don't think they will be as aggressive as Toyota dealers already are. So I think the actual price differential will be much wider than the sticker would indicate.

On your comments about ground clearance - you essentially mean that comparitively stuff on the LC just doesn't hang down as far or as haphazardly as on the GX? (I'm still learning what matters.) While I'm asking dumb questions - does an air suspension change your ground clearance? Seems to me it should just impact the body, not anything else, but some manufacturers publish clearance figures with / without air suspension.

On your alternative suggestions - reliability matters a lot to me so that kind of ruled out Chrysler products and Hummer (and RR, for that matter). Chrysler's lifetime powertrain warranty is great (provided that they don't reject it in bankruptcy court some day) but sometimes the cost of repairs is less bothersome than the whipping of getting a car fixed, so the lifetime warranty is only worth so much. The G500, on the other hand, is terrific. I smile every time I see one. But the $87k base price is probably more than I want to spend, and there don't seem to be many around these days (none of the area MB dealers have one at the moment, at least).

If I were smart, I guess I'd take the $70k they want for the LC and buy an FJ for the weekends, and an IS350 for weekdays. Just shows how expensive things are these days...

 

[Thai]

On your comments about ground clearance - you essentially mean that comparitively stuff on the LC just doesn't hang down as far or as haphazardly as on the GX? (I'm still learning what matters.) While I'm asking dumb questions - does an air suspension change your ground clearance? Seems to me it should just impact the body, not anything else, but some manufacturers publish clearance figures with / without air suspension.

If I were smart, I guess I'd take the $70k they want for the LC and buy an FJ for the weekends, and an IS350 for weekdays. Just shows how expensive things are these days...

The TLC underbody is smoother...less things hang below the frame height. On the GX/4runner, crossmembers and various parts (e.g. transfer case, exhaust manifold) hang below the frame. Although the parts are hefty and protected, i still don't like exposed parts.

Yeah, you can a FJ and IS350 for that price...and maybe a good idea given today's rising gas prices.

 

[GatorGreg]

I'm biased but since you don't have any kids if it were me I'd get the GX and invest the roughly $20K you'll save in Exxon/Mobile stock Or alternatively get a 4WD Ltd V8 T4R and get a jet ski too

 

[BDL]

I'm biased but since you don't have any kids if it were me I'd get the GX and invest the roughly $20K you'll save in Exxon/Mobile stock

I go back and forth on which I like better. How do you like the GX? Ever feel like you're lacking passing power? It's hard to evaluate on a test drive - hard to replicate being on a two-lane road stuck behind 2 semis and wanting to get around them quickly. How about the body roll that all of the auto press reviews harp on? (I guess both of these also depend on your truck - pre or post-VVT and KDSS/not).

Exxon is already my largest holding....

And we're planning on getting my wife a new Prius to balance out the fuel economy equation. I like to think we might be the first to buy an LC and a Prius on the same day.

 

[Mark86]

I drive my parents GX470 a lot and it is a 4Runner with a fancy interior. In addition, the design is old and lacks a lot of the technology that is in the new Land Cruiser. If money is not an issue, I would definitely go with the Land Cruiser. You are buying a vehicle that was just redesigned and will probably hold its value over time better. The only problem I can find with buying the new Land Cruiser is first year production quirks. On the other hand, it is a Toyota so don't worry!

 

[BDL]

Mark, how do you think that your V8 T4R compares with the GX your parents have?

I was surprised to see Car and Driver came up with identical performance stats for them - 7.2 to 60 and 15.7 through the quarter mile - despite the GX's greater weight (offset, I guess, by a slightly more powerful engine).

How about the body lean that the reviewers harp on in the GX?

 

[Thai]

How about the body lean that the reviewers harp on in the GX?

Easy fix...get the GX Sport or whatever it's called with KDSS.

 

[BDL]

Should be an easy fix - but Gulf States Toyota doesn't order them that way (apparently). Most of the trucks with KDSS appear to be in the midwest and the west coast - nowhere near Texas. So you can get it, but it's harder to do. Plus, it's expensive, because it seems to be the last option package Toyota puts on the truck. So just getting KDSS effectively requires you to buy, for instance, the rear-seat DVD. Starts to eat up the cost savings over the LC.

 

[Mark86]

On paper, both engines are identical. I definitely feel that the 4Runner has more pep than the GX470, especially when it comes to passing power. My 4Runner seems more responsive when you punch the accelerator and off the line. I do not believe that the numbers for both are equal because I think the weight difference is noticeable.

As for the top heaviness, my 4Runner with XREAS corners better than the non sport GX. On the other hand, if you put the adjustable suspension on sport mode, the GX is not top heavy relative to its size.

On the exterior, I would take the 4Runner any day. I think it looks more sport and more luxurious on the outside. In addition, the liftgate on the 4Runner is a much better design. As for the interior, well its a Lexus!! Fancy leather, fancy materials, fancy wood trim makes the driving experience nice and cozy. Overall, many of the features that the GX has are available on a 4Runner limited. Overall, I would take my 4Runner any day! Even my parents like my 4Runner better than the GX!

 

[GatorGreg]

I go back and forth on which I like better. How do you like the GX? Ever feel like you're lacking passing power? It's hard to evaluate on a test drive - hard to replicate being on a two-lane road stuck behind 2 semis and wanting to get around them quickly. How about the body roll that all of the auto press reviews harp on? (I guess both of these also depend on your truck - pre or post-VVT and KDSS/not).

The GX is an amazing vehicle IMO, I just got back from a 1,000 + mile road trip and it was flawless smooth cruising at 80 mph most of the way (actually with my slightly bigger tires I suppose I was really going 83ish ) I have the pre-VVTi but it rarely feels underpowered to me. Remember though that the 4.7 was originally designed for quiet, smooth power delivery with lots of low end torque for use in Toyota's flagship SUVs, the '98 LX/TLC. Horsepower was NOT it's primary design objective.

Even so, the GX has no trouble keeping up with traffic, in fact in the old Car & Driver comparo of 8 SUVs from 2003, it finished "on the podium" in 0-60, 1/4 mile and lane change, not bad for an original 2003 non-VVTi, non-KDSS equipped GX. And if you look at the breakdown of the acceleration stats in the hard copy of this comparo (which I still have laying around somewhere), the GX if I recall correctly was actually in 1st place in the 0-30 type category, and just barely getting edged out at 60. I tend to leave most other vehicles behind off the line in real world city acceleration situations where you aren't gonna floor it all the way to 60

As far as body roll goes it's true I won't be carving any corners in the GX especially since I don't have KDSS, but that's what my Spyder is for. I tend to leave the GX suspension in Sport mode and it seems to help in the corners somewhat, but if I put it in any of the more comfy modes it wallows like a pig in fast turns. However even in Sport mode it's a very plush ride IMO.

Even my parents like my 4Runner better than the GX!

Yeah, all GX owners have a severe case of T4R tailgate envy

 

[BDL]

On paper, both engines are identical. I definitely feel that the 4Runner has more pep than the GX470, especially when it comes to passing power.

That's what I would have expected. But on the engines, Toyota rates them at 306 lb-ft and 323 lb-ft for 4R and GX, respectively. Doesn't sound like much of a difference but it makes the ratio of weight to peak torque almost identical, so I guess it's possible they are equally quick, but I doubt it. I've never been able to figure out the difference in the engine, though someone suggested that it's electronics, which could be the case.

I find it interesting that Toyota sandbags the official performance stats on the SUVs. They list the GX at 8.1 to 60mph. Three separate tests I found put the 03 (pre-VVT) at 8.0. The only test I've seen post-VVT was the C&D test that put it at 7.2, which sounds like it must have had a tailwind. Toyota puts the new LC at 7.2, whereas Motor Trend did it in 6.5. Guess Toyota doesn't want to encourage reckless driving.

 

[BDL]

And if you look at the breakdown of the acceleration stats in the hard copy of this comparo (which I still have laying around somewhere), the GX if I recall correctly was actually in 1st place in the 0-30 type category, and just barely getting edged out at 60. I tend to leave most other vehicles behind off the line in real world city acceleration situations where you aren't gonna floor it all the way to 60

I believe it. I'm not really concerned about tenths of a second on 0-60 (notwithstanding the above post) but insofar as horsepower is a reflection of the top end of the torque curve it just seems like not a lot of pulling power at the top end. The only time my car ever sees the top end is passing on two-lane roads, so I guess it's not really that big a deal.

That said, if you ever do run into the actual stats from that article I'd be interesting in seeing them. I saw that article online and was disappointed they didn't put up the data - I like data.

 

[Thai]

That's what I would have expected. But on the engines, Toyota rates them at 306 lb-ft and 323 lb-ft for 4R and GX, respectively.

I would not look at the numbers too hard...my guess is that Toyota/Lexus intentionally under rate the torque on the 4runner so that GX owners won't be offended. This way, Lexus salesman can tell customers that you DO get more when you buy a Lexus. Mercedes has done this for years on their cars...for example, the SL55 AMG has higher HP ratings than E55 AMG despite same engine and supercharger. And according to numerous dyno graphs, the SL55 and E55 has identical HP/torque curves. Mercedes does this to support SL55 owner's egos.