2010 SR5 4WD light not coming on

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msommers

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As you may know, the SR5 version of 4WD has the manual shift lever. Shifting into 4WD-Hi and Lo are both possible and physically easy. There is no grinding and no harsh resistance - everything 'feels' normal while shifting.

The problem is the light doesn't come on. Normally I'd say whatever but once into 4WD-Hi, for example, the front end doesn't feel as heavy as it normally does once shifted. It's almost as if it's only half engaged or something.

Normally I use 4WD both summer and winter but for the last 6 months I only occasionally drive the 4R and definitely haven't shifted into 4WD during that time, which I think might be part of the problem.

Searching here seems to suggest a shift indicator sensor might be bad.

Any other ideas? I'm really hoping this isn't a super expensive fix but I need 4WD for the winter...
 
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So I got my 4R back from diagnostics today.

I gave them 1 hour, the guy calls me at the end and says he has no clue what's wrong with it and needs more time to dig deeper. At $150/hr, I reluctantly say yes to another hour.

I told them about the vibration issue and the TSB.

The tech notes are:

4WD light not coming on
- Correction: suspected cause is the TSB/rumble because front diff actuator is intermittently engaging and disengaging. Want to start with the replacement of the front diff and actuator assembly and then I will be able to test the function with a new components.

Rumble between 60-80km/h:
- Correction: As per TSB3461 replace front diff, confirmed noise/growl in 2wd and when placed in 4x4 noise is gone. Left front axle has too much play between needle bearings.

Their quote (in CDN dollars):
4111035A91 - Carrier, Diff. $2152.20
4343060090 - Shaft assy, drive. $565.30
Labour - $650.00

I really want to take this somewhere else but then I'd be paying for another diagnosis. What really pisses me off is I had a dealership years ago look at this and they said they couldn't reproduce the problem. I called to see my service history and no note was ever added to the file.

This tech seems like he wants to replace parts and hope it fixes things but doesn't actually know. I already gave them $300 bucks today!

What's the hours of labour for all this typically? Does this seem correct or fair (seriously I want to know)?
 
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This sounds sketchy, replace the part to "test the function with new components" sounds like they are throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Personally I'd go get another opinion, regardless of money spent.
 
That's exactly what I was thinking.

Do you guys know if having the vibration/rumble is just an annoyance or is detrimental to the front differential (or other parts) if not fixed soon?
 
Going to need some clarification:

-you mention yours has the 4wd lever. Do you mean the round knob or the actual lever you pull back, then over and forward? I thought all SR5s came with the knob.

-how mechanically inclined are you...?

Are you getting rumble as mentioned in the TSB?

If you have some mechanical aptitude:
put it on on 4 jackstands. All wheels off the ground. While running (in 2wd), put the thing in gear and let off the brake. Do just the rears turn? Turn the knob to 4wd. let off the brake, did you hear the clunk of everything locking? Has at least 1 front wheel joined the party and started turning? If so, you might be good and something may be wrong with the light. If not, I'm willing to bet it's either in the knob or a switch on the transfer case not telling the actuator up front the t-case is in 4wd.
if the switch on the t-case is bad, the knob should still lock transfer case (front and rear driveshafts will turn), but the actuator will never lock. This can be seen from underneath.

All of this is much easier if you have an actual lever, as you remove the knob from being an issue.

IF you do have the rumble as described in the tsb, remove your front skid plate and unplug the actuator and see if that changes the rumble noise. From there, if the noise is eliminated, you can start checking for voltage to see if the system is being actuated when it shouldn't be.

Essentially the first step is making sure it actually is or isn't going into 4wd when you try it, and that takes 15 seconds on a lift. Not 2 hours. Then you can go from there.

EDIT: forgot to mention, if should be damn easy to tell if the t-case is being actuated, as you'll know when you get into 4low, the gearing is way different.
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm not super mechanically inclined but I'll definitely give it a shot.

Regarding the switch mentioned, how would I bypass that?

Also I should mention, 4hi the front end doesn't seem to be engaging, it just doesn't feel heavy like normal. When in 4lo, I definitely feel something engaging as the whole vehicle feels speed restricted and almost "crawling". This is normal feeling to me for the 4lo I'm used to. Not sure how helpful the "feels" are but maybe haha!
 
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msommers said:
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm not super mechanically inclined but I'll definitely give it a shot.

Regarding the switch mentioned, how would I bypass that?

Also I should mention, 4hi the front end doesn't seem to be engaging, it just doesn't feel heavy like normal. When in 4lo, I definitely feel something engaging as the whole vehicle feels speed restricted and almost "crawling". This is normal feeling to me for the 4lo I'm used to. Not sure how helpful the "feels" are but maybe haha!
Click to expand...

Check out this thread. Post 20 has a diagram showing the switches and what they should ohm out with.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/210776-2011-sr5-4-wheel-not-engaging-2.html
 
Also, if it was the same way (probably is...) as it was on my Land Cruiser, all of the switches are the same. If you shift the transfer case into neutral, then put the transmission in park, an "AT/P" light will come on the dash. That will verify the neutral switch for the transfer case is good. Swap it out for the 4wd switch on the other side of the t-case and see if your problem moves (4wd light now works and AT/P light no longer lights up when in neutral/park). If so, throw a new switch in it and drive on.
 
So I took it in for a second opinion and sure as shit, we do an initial test drive and it works no problem. Honestly dumbfounded.

The only thing I can think of is that the temperature was -25C for a couple weeks and sat on the street in driven, and now is basically 0C. Maybe the actuator was stuck/frozen but now ok? Seems odd as it's never done this in similar conditions previous years.
 
msommers said:
So I took it in for a second opinion and sure as shit, we do an initial test drive and it works no problem. Honestly dumbfounded.



The only thing I can think of is that the temperature was -25C for a couple weeks and sat on the street in driven, and now is basically 0C. Maybe the actuator was stuck/frozen but now ok? Seems odd as it's never done this in similar conditions previous years.
Click to expand...



I think you're on too something with the cold. Similar thing with my 2011 SR5 the other night in Calgary, except my entire dash wouldn't light up until Warm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Very odd as the 4R has been through worse up in northern Alberta. 4WD works now so maybe got "lucky" and can get normal use again, making sure I use the 4WD every couple weeks to keep everything lubed and not 'let the dust settle' on the system.

Vibration issue we're going to change out a brass sleeve but the guys were unsure this would solve it. Sounds like it needs to be replaced anyways so I don't mind. I am kinda concerned that leaving it will lead to other issues but the mild severity of the vibration has been constant for years now and hasn't gotten worse...

Word to the wise for any Calgary residents, The Gear Shop was a solid bunch of guys. Now that the truck is out of warranty, I won't even bother with the dealership now.
 
msommers said:
Very odd as the 4R has been through worse up in northern Alberta. 4WD works now so maybe got "lucky" and can get normal use again, making sure I use the 4WD every couple weeks to keep everything lubed and not 'let the dust settle' on the system.

Vibration issue we're going to change out a brass sleeve but the guys were unsure this would solve it. Sounds like it needs to be replaced anyways so I don't mind. I am kinda concerned that leaving it will lead to other issues but the mild severity of the vibration has been constant for years now and hasn't gotten worse...

Word to the wise for any Calgary residents, The Gear Shop was a solid bunch of guys. Now that the truck is out of warranty, I won't even bother with the dealership now.
Click to expand...

Glad yours is working. Good tip! Thanks.
Maybe mine was a battery issue, but I haven't had an issue with a cold start since. It was very odd - the car moved fine, but it wasn't until I was two blocks away that the whole cluster suddenly lit.
 
So more weird behavior, which seems to point to an electrical gremlin.

Shifting into 4hi seems to be fairly consistent now for whatever reason. It seems less constant on-the-fly vs. shifting into neutral.

Shifting into 4lo is physically possible and engages but the dash lights don't light up indicating 4lo and trc off like normal.
 
It's important to understand how the 4wd system works.. When you shift the manual T-case lever. To 4H or 4L... The front drive shaft will be engaged by the mechanical shift fork, but the front diff is still not connected to both wheels (so the tq from the drive shaft goes nowhere)

When thing are working normally, there is a switch inside the t-case that is triggered by the shift fork and the 4wd ECU uses this to determine 4wd is demaded and it then actuates the front ADD to get both wheels engaged. The light will flash until this process is complete.

If you get no lights... then the 4wd switch at the top of the t-case is bad or not making good contact..... If you get a constant flashing light.. then most likely something is wrong with the ADD actuator.

The needle bearing noise and play in the front diff.. is unrelated to 4wd engaging.

As far as 4Lo goes... there is another similar switch to detect that the shifter fork has been moved to engage the reduction gear. Same problem... different switch. Both on top of the transfer case.

In that case you are in 4Lo.. but the ECU thinks you are in 4hi, so things like Atrac locker... won't work.
 
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So I went back to the dealership as they left a plastic piece in the back seat I never noticed and also got more into it with their team.

As it turns out, it was a 3rd year apprentice doing the work who didn't ask the journeyman when he got stuck. So I *****ed and said they didn't diagnose things properly and they agreed to do another 2 hours of diagnostics for free.

Came back today with transfer switches, which I told them from the get-go to check:

8422235080 - Transfer Position Switch 4Lo
8422235110 - Transfer Position Switch 4WD
2.5 hrs labour

Apparently this requires them to lower the transfer case to go to the switches.

I'm thinking I might try to tackle this myself but if the transfer case is in fact required to do this, that might be above my capabilities.

EDIT: I came across this post and seems that a crowfoot wrench works for the one side!

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/210776-2011-sr5-4-wheel-not-engaging-2.html
[MENTION=61541]Hambone[/MENTION] how has your new switch been holding up? Did you have to replace the 4Lo as well?
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] How would I drop the transfer case without any need to drain fluids (I just replaced all my diffs/tcase fluids this weekend!)
 
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