2010 Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition: Review and Pics (TruckTrend)

[J.A.]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that all the new 2010 4x4's, including the SR5 and TE, do have a locking center diff. When you put it in 4WD, does it not lock the center diff so it's 50/50 front/rear split? I believe it does, just like my old '00 SR5 did. From what I've read, I believe the problem is that the SR5 and TE no longer have the ability to run in 4WD on dry pavement (what Toyota used to call "multi-mode" in the olden days.) In other words, the only way to activate 4WD on the new SR5 and TE is to lock the center diff. So yes, they DO have a locking center diff, that's how it gets power to the front axle.

I believe it was the '98 Limiteds that first got the socalled "multi-mode" 4WD system that would allow you to run in 4WD on dry pavement (a feature that became standard on all trim levels in '01). The multi-mode would provide power to both the front and rear, but it did NOT require you to lock the center diff in order to provide power to all 4 wheels - therefore allowing you to run on dry pavement because there would be no binding. Of course, with multi-mode you could ALSO lock the center diff if you wanted to for more heavy duty 4WD applications.

All 4WD fourth gens with the torsen center diff could also run in 4WD on dry pavement because the center diff didn't have to be "locked" in order to provide power to front and rear. But once again, you had the option of locking it when you wanted to.

So to summarize, it's not the loss of a locking center diff that we should be lamenting. Rather, it's the loss of the ability to run in 4WD with center diff UNlocked which is what you need to run 4WD on dry pavement (except for the Limiteds of course which retain this feature in '10). I'm still not sure though that I've read anything definitive on this yet - I want to wait until I actually sit in a 5th gen and read a Sr5 4x4 owner's manual to be sure. I say this because I still can't believe they would take such a major step backwards on non-Limiteds until I read it with my own two eyes

Pretty much correct except that the 5th gen limiteds cannot run unlocked in 4Lo, which can be very useful in certain situations...some people have commented on its usefulness when towing a boat out of the water and needing to turn and also coming down steep mountain switchbacks while offroad.

 

[GatorGreg]

Pretty much correct except that the 5th gen limiteds cannot run unlocked in 4Lo, which can be very useful in certain situations...some people have commented on its usefulness when towing a boat out of the water and needing to turn and also coming down steep mountain switchbacks while offroad.

Interesting, I'm trying to remember now if the 3rd gen multi-mode ('98-'00 Limiteds and '01-'02 all models) could be run unlocked in 4Lo. My '00 was an SR5 so of course I had to be locked to even be in 4Hi much less 4Lo. Do you know J.A. or can anyone else with the 3rd gen "multi-mode" say for sure?

However, those two circumstances you mentioned I think it's slippery enough to not really matter. Boat docks tend to be rather slippery at least on the part that you might want the extra pull of low-range. Once you get far enough out that you're ready to turn you could always put it unlocked 4Hi if you really wanted to (if Limited). And if coming down a sttep mountain switchback while offroad, once again I don't think it would really hurt anything because it's not dry pavement. That said, I suppose it's still arguably a SLIGHTLY degraded 4WD system even on the Limited. The loss of unlocked 4Hi on the SR5 and TE (if true), is much more significant.

 

[M1911]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that all the new 2010 4x4's, including the SR5 and TE, do have a locking center diff.

No, they don't. The Limited has a lockable, limited-slip, Torsen center diff, just like the 4th gen. The TE and SR5 have a simple transfer case.

From what I've read, I believe the problem is that the SR5 and TE no longer have the ability to run in 4WD on dry pavement (what Toyota used to call "multi-mode" in the olden days.)

No. If they had a Torsen limited slip center diff, they would be able to run on dry pavement. That is the whole point of a Torsen.

In other words, the only way to activate 4WD on the new SR5 and TE is to lock the center diff. So yes, they DO have a locking center diff, that's how it gets power to the front axle.

No. There is no point to a Torsen center diff that is permanently locked. Why have a complex, expensive, limited slip differential if you're always going to have it locked? You can get power to the front axle without a Torsen center diff. That is what simple, two-stage transfer cases are for -- like the one in the 5th Gen SR5 and TE.

 

[ToyTech99]

No. There is no point to a Torsen center diff that is permanently locked. Why have a complex, expensive, limited slip differential if you're always going to have it locked? You can get power to the front axle without a Torsen center diff. That is what simple, two-stage transfer cases are for -- like the one in the 5th Gen SR5 and TE.

Yeah, Toyota really screwed the pooch on the 5th gen. They should have made all models with the ability to run fulltime 4wd like the 4th gen. Or they could have made the Trail Edition the only one with a conventional transfer case and the extra 4wd goodies.

For me, on-road snow performance is much more important that offroading. I'd much rather have the fulltime 4wd so that I could just put it in 4wd and forget it during the winter months. Can't do that with the 5th gen... too bad.

 

[J.A.]

M1911 is absolutly correct that the SR5 and TE dont have a center diff at all. But I believe when Greg said that the SR5/TE's center diff cannot be unlocked he was simply referring to the fact that the front and rear split is always 50/50 and not that there was a true center diff that couldnt be unlocked.

Greg, The multi-mode was introduced in 99 not 98. For 99 and 00 you couldnt run unlocked in 4Lo, for 2001-2002 you could.

2001-2002:
"The shift mode has been changed along with the adoption of the A-TRAC (Active Traction Control) function in the brake system. The shift pattern of the transfer shift lever has been changed. A center differential lock switch has been provided in the instrument panel so that the locking and unlocking can be controlled by the push of a button, rather than through the 4WD shifter."

 

[GatorGreg]

M1911 is absolutly correct that the SR5 and TE dont have a center diff at all. But I believe when Greg said that the SR5/TE's center diff cannot be unlocked he was simply referring to the fact that the front and rear split is always 50/50 and not that there was a true center diff that couldnt be unlocked.

Greg, The multi-mode was introduced in 99 not 98. For 99 and 00 you couldnt run unlocked in 4Lo, for 2001-2002 you could.

2001-2002:
"The shift mode has been changed along with the adoption of the A-TRAC (Active Traction Control) function in the brake system. The shift pattern of the transfer shift lever has been changed. A center differential lock switch has been provided in the instrument panel so that the locking and unlocking can be controlled by the push of a button, rather than through the 4WD shifter."

Thanks J.A., that's interesting about the change from '00 to '01, I knew they changed to a button on the dash but I never thought through the implications on that. As to the "locking cente diff" issue I misunderstood that what folks were really complaining about was that you allegedly couldn't "lock" the torque split 50/50 front to rear in the '10 SR5/TE, which clearly you can still do. I just wanted to make clear that it's the loss of the ability to run "unlocked" in 4Hi which is the real concern, not the loss of the ability to "lock" the torque split front to rear at 50/50. Whether it's technically accomplished through a "lockable center differential" or via a "simple transfer case" like on my old '00 I didn't think much mattered for the discussion.

 

[JB.]

That said, I suppose it's still arguably a SLIGHTLY degraded 4WD system even on the Limited.(No 4lo, unlocked)

For the vast majority, no doubt. My affinity for 4lo, unlocked is probably rare, but I don't understand the need to have it disabled in the first place. The expense of the Torsen is still there. The omisson must be cost related somehow. Either in purchasing/manufactering or a warranty strength and durability issue that was identified with 4lo, unlocked usage.The latter seems unlikely to me as I would expect the opposite especially since the rear diff was strengthened in the 5th.

 

[sandcrawler]

i certainly hope Toyota is paying attention to the copious negative response and discussion(s) this issue has generated...

 

[jh26]

I'm another big user of 4lo/unlocked. In my case it's for towing out large sailboats up slippery ramps that change to dry pavement at the top when they are still plenty steep enough to want 4lo, but have way too much traction for a locked center when you need to turn.

I don't think this "feature removal" is cost related - I think it stems from a lack of understanding the usefulness of lo/unlocked- it's just hard to explain, so instead they don't bother. One less switch in the truck, one less mode to explain. It's very frustrating, because all of the necessary parts are there - it's just a single switch or setting on a dial.

My affinity for 4lo, unlocked is probably rare, but I don't understand the need to have it disabled in the first place. The expense of the Torsen is still there. The omisson must be cost related somehow. Either in purchasing/manufactering or a warranty strength and durability issue that was identified with 4lo, unlocked usage.The latter seems unlikely to me as I would expect the opposite especially since the rear diff was strengthened in the 5th.

 

[M1911]

I just wanted to make clear that it's the loss of the ability to run "unlocked" in 4Hi which is the real concern, not the loss of the ability to "lock" the torque split front to rear at 50/50. Whether it's technically accomplished through a "lockable center differential" or via a "simple transfer case" like on my old '00 I didn't think much mattered for the discussion.

On the Limited model, the only one that retains a Torsen limited slip center diff, it still has the ability to lock the center diff, in both 4H and 4L. That gives you a 50-50 torque split front to rear, and once locked behaves exactly the same as a part-time 4WD system.

So I think you missed the point of the discussion entirely.

 

[GatorGreg]

On the Limited model, the only one that retains a Torsen limited slip center diff, it still has the ability to lock the center diff, in both 4H and 4L. That gives you a 50-50 torque split front to rear, and once locked behaves exactly the same as a part-time 4WD system.

So I think you missed the point of the discussion entirely.

Perhaps my English isn't what it used to be but I don't think you understood my comment that you quoted - I thought it was rather obvious that I was referring to the SR5/TE and not the Limited since I had made the distinction several times previously. But I'll go ahead and restate the quote once again below with a slight clarification just for you

I just wanted to make clear that it's the loss of the ability to run "unlocked" in 4Hi (in the SR5 and TE only) which is the real concern, not the loss of the ability to "lock" the torque split front to rear at 50/50. Whether it's technically accomplished through a "lockable center differential" or via a "simple transfer case" like on my old '00 I didn't think much mattered for the discussion.

To emphasize, there are a lot of primitive all wheel drive, 4WD systems out there (whatever you want to call them), that do NOT allow you to lock the torque split 50/50 front to rear (such as the Honda CR-V, etc). I wanted to make it clear that the new SR5 and TE DO have the ability to have the torque split "locked" at a 50/50 split. When you keep posting that it doesn't have a "center locking differential", I think it's somewhat misleading because some folks are taking it to mean that the new SR5 and TE cannot be set to have a 50/50 front/rear split, which of course is false. Once again, the real concern (at least for me) is the loss of the ability to run in "unlocked" 4Hi (on the new SR5 and TE), which means it's "back to it's roots" like on my old '00 SR5 (except the Limited).

 

[JB.]

...some folks are taking it to mean that the new SR5 and TE cannot be set to have a 50/50 front/rear split, which of course is false.

It could be that some folks are taking it wrong and it's good to make it clear. Maybe this will help.

 

[elemint]

A mast antenna always has worked better for me. I bet you a mast is MORE expensive way to go as well. All this talk about it being cheap is just plain wrong.

i think it's fair to say that the mast antenna is emblematic of the cheap shortcuts Toyota seems to have taken in a number of areas with the 5G... and that's why it's been harped on here. the "sleight of hand" they've played with the touted "increased ground clearance" (just taller tires, in fact) is another one. i'd bet rock rails (not hd sliders, per se) will become an available option shortly. but i'm certain the lack of front locker and true offroad tires will remain the province of post-purchase upgrades. just my 2¢.

 

[M1911]

To emphasize, there are a lot of primitive all wheel drive, 4WD systems out there (whatever you want to call them), that do NOT allow you to lock the torque split 50/50 front to rear (such as the Honda CR-V, etc).

Huh? Crossover utility vehicles like the CR-V are generally front-drive until they sense slip, then they start sending torque to the rear. They typically do not have a low-range either. They are a completely different animal than a part-time 4WD system typically found on pickup trucks and body-on-frame SUVs. We should not further muddy the waters of this discussion by bringing up those types of AWD systems.

I wanted to make it clear that the new SR5 and TE DO have the ability to have the torque split "locked" at a 50/50 split. When you keep posting that it doesn't have a "center locking differential", I think it's somewhat misleading because some folks are taking it to mean that the new SR5 and TE cannot be set to have a 50/50 front/rear split, which of course is false.

:vader:

Goodness, gracious. The SR5 and TE DO NOT HAVE A CENTER DIFFERENTIAL! Period. Full stop. Traditional part-time 4WD systems DO NOT HAVE A CENTER DIFFERENTIAL! The front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed!!!!!

Once again, the real concern (at least for me) is the loss of the ability to run in "unlocked" 4Hi (on the new SR5 and TE), which means it's "back to it's roots" like on my old '00 SR5 (except the Limited).

The primary concern of myself (and many others), as expressed in this thread and numerous others, is that you can not drive in 4WD on dry pavement.

 

[M1911]

JB, good chart. Thank you.:thumb3:

 

[ToyTech99]

A mast antenna always has worked better for me. I bet you a mast is MORE expensive way to go as well. All this talk about it being cheap is just plain wrong.

Hmmm.... lets see. Stick a metal rod into the fender and call it a day, or build an intricate wire antenna system into the glass on both back side windows an connect them into a diversity antenna system. Yeah, I think the mast antenna is MUCH less expensive, no doubt about it.

 

[ToyTech99]

Goodness, gracious. The SR5 and TE DO NOT HAVE A CENTER DIFFERENTIAL! Period. Full stop. Traditional part-time 4WD systems DO NOT HAVE A CENTER DIFFERENTIAL! The front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed!!!!!


The primary concern of myself (and many others), as expressed in this thread and numerous others, is that you can not drive in 4WD on dry pavement.

Yes, that's correct and I think that's where all of the confusion lies. A center differential does just what it sounds like it would do...it allows a differential in rotational speed between the front and rear driveshafts. This is why the 4th gen 4Runners could run all day long in 4wd on dry roads without causing any problems. However, it seems that Toyota is choosing to go in the direction of a transfer case instead of a center differential (at least on the SR5 and Trail). Now a transfer case does not allow different speeds between the front & rear driveshafts, which is why it's not a good idea to run in 4wd on dry streets.

So to sum it all up, the transfer case on the 5th gen acts like the center differential WHEN LOCKED on the 4th gen. So yes, it will split power to the front & rear driveshafts. But of course you can UNLOCK the center diff on the 4th gen 4Runner and you still are in 4wd, but a transfer case is either engaged or disengaged, which means you're either running 2wd or 4wd.

 

[ToyTech99]

Maybe I should have simply said it like this:

A locked center differential (on the 4th gen) behaves the same way as the transfer case on the 5th gen. It does the same thing.

The fact that you can unlock the center diff is what makes it able to be driven safely on dry pavement.

So if you think about it in those simple terms, it's easy to see why the center differential on the 4th gen is MUCH more preferable than the regular old transfer case. A locking center diff gives you the best of both worlds--transfer case peformance and the ability to run like an AWD vehicle on dry roads.

Is it true that Canadian 4Runners get the center differential for all models? I think I read something about that somewhere...

 

[JB.]

If you're re-wording this stuff to make it clear for other folks, all well and good, but if you're informing M1911, I don't think you've read many of his posts. :bigok:

 

[PredBlue]

Is it true that Canadian 4Runners get the center differential for all models? I think I read something about that somewhere...

Yes right here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?t=55272

I just looked it up yesterday to see if it was still true and the Canadian press release reads the same as the original posting. Also I confirmed it with Toyota customer service that it is in fact ALL trim levels.