2012 4Runner vs 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee

[1engineer]

I see this is about Jeep v. 4R .. BUT see at least 2 contribs have Trail 4Rs and this is a 4R site. Does the KDSS "make" the Trail ed. ? In other words, should one buy the Trail w/o KDSS ?

You don't have to own a Toyota to do a little research and figure out a Jeep does not hold its value and has many more problem. Really all you have to do is go to the Jeep forum. They have a crazy amount of problems and breakages. Then come to this site and see problems like: I have a rattle. If you buy the Jeep then you have proven a hypothesis of mine: Some people are attracted to shiny objects just like birds. Sure, Jeep offers many more options for their product. How well will you like them when they don't work?

Don't listen to men though, go to consumer reports, Delta or even their own forums. See what the actual owners say.

Some people though are fine with products that break down and are not worth much after a few years. Me, I am a function over form guy myself and enjoy driving something that at 2:00am on a deserted stretch of interstate would rather be thinking of something else than my check engine light coming on.

 

[rocklighting]

I see this is about Jeep v. 4R .. BUT see at least 2 contribs have Trail 4Rs and this is a 4R site. Does the KDSS "make" the Trail ed. ? In other words, should one buy the Trail w/o KDSS ?

Sadly, I dont have KDSS nor have a driven one with. All the trails by me didnt come with it and I was getting a great deal that I could have kissed goodbye if I ordered it from factory. I don't go offroading, but would like to. I bought the Trail for the looks, the seats, and all the whistles and gagets. From what I've read though, the KDSS makes a huge difference. Im not too bothered by body lean and the nosedive. I'm sure if I really had the option, I would have went for it.

 

[tjnaples]

KDSS is all that and a bag of potato chips...I've got one. :biggrin2:

 

[phillyd2]

There's a reason that the UN and just about every third world para-military group choose Toyotas (Land Cruiser/Hilux) rather than Jeeps. They get you there.

The real reason is that they get you back.

 

[captmarklp]

I would not know about KDSS had I not seen it in a brochure and then stumbled onto a You Tube that tells a little more! Each time I go to a dealership, I find the sales people know little about the product. This is a laugh on them and on me: I might have bought the previous generation BUT the salesman had no idea how to find O/D as in move the shift stick laterally. To be fair, I look primarily at "pre-owned" stuff, so there's no sticker for them or me to review. Recently I looked at a Trail and the salesman said, "Aw.. that dial up there ? I dunno but it is complicated and you have to pay a premium for it". I wouldn't have thought about it for another minute but I drove it.. and enjoyed it !

 

[RiDE]

I was in the same boat no less then 3 weeks ago. The new Jeep is definitely nice and made me question the 4R a good amount. It put up a good fight but in the end, the reliability and maintenance history of each brand was what won me over. And plus, the 4R rear window rolls down.

 

[LiquidGx]

The JGC is a woman's car, like a Lexus RX. If you are going to do girly things like shop and go for tea it will be fine. If on the other hand you have a sack, wouldn't be caught dead driving a VW Beetle, and prefer spending your free time at the lake rather than a dealer, get the T4R.

 

[pawzitiv]

KDSS is all that and a bag of potato chips...I've got one. :biggrin2:

+1

KDSS makes a world of difference with off road wheel travel and on road body lean.

 

[knc1us69]

Former Jeep GC 5.9 Owner

I opted for the 2011 Trail Edition. My previous vehicle was the 98 jeep grand cherokee 5.9 limited. I am anal about my vehicle maintenance. I overkill all maintenance on all my vehicles and have had two with over 300,000 miles on original engines and transmissions though they are Honda and Subaru. After approximately 45,000 miles on the jeep the problems started. First the rear-end requiring new gear and pinion. Then downhill from there. I had to practically give the jeep away even though it only had 97,000 miles on it. I loved the look, sound, interior features, etc. but the reliability was non-existent. I honestly had doubts that it would get me where I was going on a daily basis. I love the bells and whistles of the new Jeep's but its some of those very same things that made me opt for the T4R as the bells and whistles on the jeep cost me a fortune as they started failing. My family have been loyal Toyota owners and though I have very few miles on mine they have yotas with well over 200K miles on theirs and very few problems to note. Also, if they wanted to sell, I have no doubt the resale value on the yota's would blow the jeep away. This is coming from someone who was passionate about my jeep. I just couldn't afford one anymore.

 

[DDM4]

From another thread.

Weeelll... Something I've been coming to realize: Unibody doesn't mean "can't go off road" or even that it can't do it well. The new JGC is defintely capable off road. Granted, most of this ability is technology/software based rather than hardware but that seems to be the way of the future.

The TR4 has a lot of this technology but also has the hardware to go with it. Meaning, the T4R should be the more superior vehicle off the pavement. However, both the JGC and the T4R will get to the end of most trails. Again, the advantage for the T4R might be the ease of how it does it and that it might be able to handle slightly more severe terrain. I'm going to bet that advantage though, is smaller than we like to think.

Now, considering the above to be accurate, if you aren't an avid trail rider but still need a capable vehicle for the occasional excursion or bad weather, it makes sense to give strong consideration to what we usually consider, "soft-roaders". ie: JGC, Durango, Expedition etc. Seeing as their design is geared more towards where the truck is mostly driven; the pavement.

All of the above is with a "all things being equal" mindset. Meaning, reliability issues prevalent in brands, not considered.

Offroad the differences between unibody and BOF become more evident with durability that ability. A JGC might (and probably would) be able to make it down most of the same trails as a T4R, however the level of damage that it takes on will IMO be a lot higher. I see a lot of guys on here flexing their trucks pretty hard, wouldn't recommend that in a unibody!

edit: it occurs to me that this might be taken as disagreeing with the quote, which it isn't... just expanding on their theme of unibody v BOF discussion

Makes perfect sense.

The consideration of frequency of activity is an important one. A unibody vehicle, while we both agree can do off-road, may not be the wise choice if you are frequently doing so, as your observation points out.

The important point to take away here is that unibody construction does not preclude a vehicle, by itself, to being an incapable off-road. There might be slight limitations and increased risks, however.

I'll add something to my first post in this thread regarding vehicle selection. We all know that tires make a huge impact on a vehicle ability to get out of the suck. An H1 with highway tires will be less useful than a rav4 with the proper rubber. (taking some liberties here to make a point)

If you purchase a more on-road oriented SUV such as the JGC with the mindset of, "this will do", and wrap it with summer high performance tires; don't expect if to bail you out of a hole... I mean that literally and figuratively.

 

[JohnnyT]

I see this is about Jeep v. 4R .. BUT see at least 2 contribs have Trail 4Rs and this is a 4R site. Does the KDSS "make" the Trail ed. ? In other words, should one buy the Trail w/o KDSS ?

I think most would buy one, me included, without KDSS. If anything, I specifically wouldn't want one with KDSS. Its just a very expensive option that will get no use from almost all owners that have it and its a possible expensive repair item down the road.

Its meant for serious off roaders and there are very few of those...... and those that ARE serious off roaders probably don't really need it. I'm sure they can go to all the same isolated, rock climbing places that they did before KDSS came along. Appropriate tires are more important than KDSS, most would probably agree.

Most would buy the Trail for its looks over the SR5 and Limited (which I think both look hideous). Period. A Trail is only 4Runner I might trade my 4th gen for. MIGHT.

 

[JohnnyT]

You don't have to own a Toyota to do a little research and figure out a Jeep does not hold its value and has many more problem. Really all you have to do is go to the Jeep forum. They have a crazy amount of problems and breakages. Then come to this site and see problems like: I have a rattle. If you buy the Jeep then you have proven a hypothesis of mine: Some people are attracted to shiny objects just like birds. Sure, Jeep offers many more options for their product. How well will you like them when they don't work?

Don't listen to men though, go to consumer reports, Delta or even their own forums. See what the actual owners say.

Some people though are fine with products that break down and are not worth much after a few years. Me, I am a function over form guy myself and enjoy driving something that at 2:00am on a deserted stretch of interstate would rather be thinking of something else than my check engine light coming on.

Geez...... lighten up, Francis. You make it sound like every Jeep breaks down and only shallow fools would buy a Jeep. No smart people buy Jeeps?? I bet there are a couple in the parking garage at Harvard and Yale. Just a couple.

Yes, their reliability history is not great compared to 4Runners but some would, yes, knowingly understand that they may have 3-4 major issues with a Jeep over the life of it and may still knowingly be fine with it due to the fact that they offer a different appeal that 4Runners don't and they can enjoy other amenities. AND, they may never, ever have those 3-4 majors issues - there could be less or none at all. Some people keep their cars like crap and deserve what they get and since Jeep sells many, many more Grand Cherokees you are thus more likely to hear about issues.

 

[JohnnyT]

KDSS is all that and a bag of potato chips...I've got one. :biggrin2:

I'm a former Staten Islander (grew up there), so even though I don't know you....... I know you.

I bet if you didn't have KDSS you'd stilll be able to get anywhere your heart desires with that truck you have. Because you are who you are..... and you don't really need no stinking KDSS to help you.

 

[Curt Sauve]

Jeeps are american, if yur' 'merican, always buy 'merican.

 

[JohnnyT]

Jeeps are american, if yur' 'merican, always buy 'merican.

Then how do you explain what YOU did??

 

[Curt Sauve]

Then how do you explain what YOU did??

The last american vehicle that I owned was a 99 JGC, and it was so long ago that the whole nightmare seems like a dream. And congrats on the Giants victory over the hated Packers.

 

[JohnnyT]

The last american vehicle that I owned was a 99 JGC, and it was so long ago that the whole nightmare seems like a dream. And congrats on the Giants victory over the hated Packers.

Huh??...... now I know what Iowa is for.

I hate the Giants.

 

[1engineer]

Geez...... lighten up, Francis. You make it sound like every Jeep breaks down and only shallow fools would buy a Jeep. No smart people buy Jeeps?? I bet there are a couple in the parking garage at Harvard and Yale. Just a couple.

Yes, their reliability history is not great compared to 4Runners but some would, yes, knowingly understand that they may have 3-4 major issues with a Jeep over the life of it and may still knowingly be fine with it due to the fact that they offer a different appeal that 4Runners don't and they can enjoy other amenities. AND, they may never, ever have those 3-4 majors issues - there could be less or none at all. Some people keep their cars like crap and deserve what they get and since Jeep sells many, many more Grand Cherokees you are thus more likely to hear about issues.

I am light. You should read my work if I am really serious about proving something.

Jeeps at Harvard and Yale? A lot of our politicians are from those schools. I rest my case.

You cite numbers such as "3-4" so you apparently have data to back that up right?

As I said before, some people are just attracted to shiny objects and advertising gimmicks - even smart people. I have several smart friends who have Jeeps. Some go through life with no mechanical problems. Some have multiple problems. I won't take that chance although I really like the 4D Rubicon. One of my bike riding friends has one and it is very capable. If you like form over function the Jeep GC offers all kinds of bells and whistles for you. I think I will get a "Trail Rated" badge for mine.

Look, its a stated fact that you can get a loaded down Jeep with all options and great finance rate - or - you can get a 4Runner with some options for about the same price. Some choose to take the chance with the Jeep. Some know better. BTW I had a jeep....once.

 

[tlflow]

+1

KDSS makes a world of difference with off road wheel travel and on road body lean.

+1 more

If you use it it will impress you ... regardless of what the 4th gen guys think:infidel:

 

[Ridin4Runner]

I have owned 5 Jeeps over the years. You know what starts to happen around 50K-65K, repair, repair. Stupid crap like window wont go down or dash lights go out. They look great and maybe the new gen is better reliability, but to early to roll dice on that one IMO.
I always wanted a 4Runner, once I could afford one the 4th gens were out and REALLY dislike the 4th gens aesthetically. The 5th gen came out and I pounced on it. One thing to consider if you 4Runner, you only get all wheel drive with the LTD. This was a must for me.