2014 Wrangler Unlimited vs 4Runner

[goughy]

Jeep to TE

We have just traded in a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon for a 2015 Toyota Runner Trail Edition.

In early 2012 we were looking for a vehicle which would allow us to explore the trails of southern Utah including overnight stops while still being capable of freeway/highway driving. Candidates were the Jeep, 4Runner and Nissan Xterra Pro-4X.

After much deliberation we chose the Jeep in 2012 because, among other things:

• Stock Jeep is robust and renowned for being able to handle conditions that the others might not

• There is over 6ft of length available in the back of the Jeep for sleeping. It’s a little awkward with the center console and the subwoofer but with the front seats pushed all the way forward, two people can sleep relatively comfortably in the back.

• Lots of support locally and online for help, parts etc.

• With the TreadLightly discount, less expensive than the Toyota (though more than the Nissan)

• Jeeps are supposed to hold their value

So after more than three years we are trading in the Jeep for the 4Runner because, among other things:

• The 4Runner is more “sophisticated” and comfortable on the freeway

• We realize we are not going to do any serious rock crawling and don’t need the uber-rugged build of the Jeep

• Moving gear out of the Jeep to sleep has got a little old. We have re-thought our camping setup and will probably get a RTT or a trailer. We could have done this with the Jeep but it was something else that caused us to consider changing vehicles. I assume we won’t be able to sleep in the back of the 4Runner.

• Although the Jeep did not let us down (or even threaten to) there was always the perceived reliability issue

• We got a great deal on our low-mileage Jeep - trade-in value was 96.5% of our original out-the-door cost in 2012!

We have had good experience with Toyota in past (1991 Camry, 1999 Lexus RX300) and still have our 2005 Prius, coincidentally, all built in Japan. We’re looking forward to getting out there in our new 4Runner.

 

[LandCruiser]

Live axle kicks ass off road.

To really get the Jeep to exceed the 4Runner you need to lift and regear it.

Long road trips in an SFA vehicle can get... interesting at high speeds when it's windy.

 

[Rednroll]

Funny. I posted in this thread back in March I believe.... just sold my 2012 4runner Limited and got a 2014 Jeep Unlimited.
As I said before, Love both Toyotas and Jeeps, just had the itch again.
The 4runner Limited was Loaded and a wonderful vehicle.
53 years old and drive about 75 miles highway every day.... loving the top off, doors off.
If I get bored I just take everything off. Like driving a Transformer
Still love my 4runner, if I wasn't a "one rig" kinda guy - I would have them both (along with a Camaro) and have it covered. Sold my CamaroSS a little while back.
Not enough garage room.
So, anyway Cheers to great rigs the Fun they give and those who love them, Cheers!

I'm a 4 Door Sahara Wrangler owner reading this thread for the 1st time and joined the forum to respond. To me, this is one of the few posts in this discussion that hits the nail on the head if you're deciding between a Wrangler and a 4Runner.

If your personal preference is in ride, creature comforts and luxury then the 4Runner is a no brainer when comparing it to the Wrangler because that's not what the Wrangler is about. The Wrangler is the Swiss army knife of vehicles. You're feeling board...change it. You want a hard top, put it on. You want the convertible soft top, put that on. You want to drive around and have the freedom of a dune buggy? Remove the top and doors completely off. Having all these capabilities come at a price. You need to keep the doors, and top light, so they can be taken on and off with ease, and at the same time not lose the speakers in your doors and ceiling. Lighter/thinner doors and top means more noise inside the vehicle. Convertible top means more noise inside the vehicle. Taking the top off allows rain to come inside of the interior, thus things need to be more plastic to protect the rain elements. All these things reduce creature comforts, but it's also the reason Wrangler owner's love their rides for the capabilities of the transformations. Oh, and it's one of the best 4x4 vehicles you can take off road as well.

If you're really comparing a Wrangler to a 4Runner that is your 1st mistake. You should be comparing a Grand Cherokee to a 4Runner. It's the Grand Cherokee which has the similar creature comforts as the 4Runner AND has the 4x4 offroad capabilities.

When Toyota makes a vehicle which has removable dual hard/soft top options, where you can remove the doors, as well as fold down the front windshield, then you should consider comparing that to the Wrangler because that's one of the major reasons Wrangler owners purchase Wranglers. If we want smooth on road rides, with plush interiors, and quiet interiors then we buy a 4Runner or a Grand Cherokee. The Wrangler is in a class all it's own until someone else makes a convertible 4x4 SUV with removable doors, tops and a fold down windshield. If aren't considering purchasing a Wrangler for those Swiss army knife capabilities and you're not into hard core off-road modding capabilities, then you're probably looking at the wrong vehicle.

Talk about driving with a sense of pride. You should see how many people stop and stair when I'm driving down the road with no top or doors on with the wind blowing in my hair. It's the same reason people buy Harley Davidson motor cycles for the open air freedom feel.

Cheers and enjoy your 4Runners. I'll enjoy my Wrangler for the reasons I purchased it.

 

[ProspectiveBuyer]

Next stop, Toyota dealer, to drive a SR5 Premium. Same deal, the dealer gave me the keys and said take it as long as you want.

Which Toyota dealer let you do that?

I live in the Bay Area as well (south Bay in fact) and NO new car dealer (Toyota or not), ever, handed me the keys allowed me to "take it as long as you want". All you get is a 15-20 min drive with the salesman riding shotgun.

 

[ProspectiveBuyer]

I'm a 4 Door Sahara Wrangler owner reading this thread for the 1st time and joined the forum to respond. To me, this is one of the few posts in this discussion that hits the nail on the head if you're deciding between a Wrangler and a 4Runner.

IMO the biggest advantage of the Jeep is the availability of the manual transmission. That's a huge plus. The biggest disadvantage is the very poor crash ratings, especially for side impact -- having small kids, this is a deal breaker.

 

[Jhalko]

Which Toyota dealer let you do that?

I live in the Bay Area as well (south Bay in fact) and NO new car dealer (Toyota or not), ever, handed me the keys allowed me to "take it as long as you want". All you get is a 15-20 min drive with the salesman riding shotgun.

I had that a couple times, neither Toyota dealers, but basically all the salesman were busy and couldn't sell me a car at that moment even if I was ready.

 

[Kssting]

We have both now and like Rednroll mentioned they really shouldn't be compared to one another since they are two different types of vehicles. The jeep is awesome for its main purpose which is serious off-roading and top/door off driving. The 4Runner is a fantastic all around SUV that is very capable but it's not going to do Black Bear or Kane Creek as easy as the wrangler.

 

[Scooter Dude]

I should pipe up with some comments as was on the fence on moving from a 2door Wrangler recently and glad this thread was out there when I was doing research. Have had Wranglers for a bit, granted not unlimiteds and happy to be back in a 4Runner after looking for months, I saw a TRD on a trail and it was time . The wrangler is a fun vehicle don't get me wrong but my drive to places to play is more smooth in the 4Runner and the kids want to go with me more and the roof open with all windows down is close enough - I'm a happy camper that's for sure!

Asking the dealer to bend the exhaust was interesting, I'm sure I wasn't the first, wonder why Toyota doesn't build them that way from the get-go...

Anyways, thx again for the thread, glad it was out there!!!

 

[wfo9]

The wrangler is clearly more purpose built. It has everything going for it off-road.

3 things stopped me from buying one.
1. Its built by Chrysler/fiat (enough said)
2. There are so many of them out on the trails... that it's almost boring to see one.
3. They don't have much room inside

The aftermarket support almost makes up for these issues and I may still end up with one some day.

They sell like crazy... Very high demand.

If Toyota would wake up... A 4 door FJ (basically a 5th gen with some nipping and tucking, and an off-road package). Would be impossible to keep on the lots.

 

[Rednroll]

...the overall driving experience was, well, still very Jeep like. Still, the 4 door is a much improved vehicle. I left the Jeep dealer thinking I would end up in a Jeep, since I've had jeep in my blood for over 25 years (yet I HATED driving them on the road).
Next stop, Toyota dealer, to drive a SR5 Premium. Same deal, the dealer gave me the keys and said take it as long as you want. Obviously, the 4Runner is the more refined vehicle, I knew that going in. That being said, the 2 vehicles match up pretty close in size and purpose, with the Jeep being more off road oriented and the 4Runner more on road.
I was planning another 1 1/2 hour test drive, to really get the feel of the vehicle. I left the dealer lot, drove 1/4 mile and merged onto the freeway. At that point the contest was over. There is no comparison between these 2 vehicles.

I also wanted to address these comments from the OP. It's really disappointing hearing this from someone who says they had jeep in their blood for over 25 years, because it's obvious to anyone that understands why things are certain ways with jeeps, that they never took the time to educate themselves in those 25 years. This is why Jeepers just say, "It's a jeep thing.....you wouldn't understand." and it's obvious this guy never took the time to understand in his 25 years of saying he had Jeep in his blood.

He made his evaluation decision based upon his driving onto the highway experience. I'll be the 1st to admit, after owning a Wrangler for the 1st time, that I had the same underwhelming experience in that there is an overall lack of get up and go in the Wrangler for performing fast accelerations. I asked, where's the HEMI option for this thing, there's plenty of room beneath the hood for one? Someone was nice enough to explain it to me, so I'll pass this information along since it's obvious the OP never got the same memo of explanation.

For offroad driving, slow and steady is the standard for success. It's difficult to maintain a slow and steady crawl, where if you tap on the skinny pedal, your vehicle wants to launch into quick acceleration mode. It's all about gear ratios and maintaining a steady rate of torque pressure. Gear ratios which are good for maintaining a steady rate of torque pressure are not necessarily very good for quick acceleration purposes and vise versa. So there's a trade off here. The Jeep is geared more like a farm tractor. You put big tires on a farm tractor, and the farmer expects the tractor will go through all the muddy ruts to be able to drive across the farm field and he expects it's going to take him some time to get from one end of the field to the other. No farmer expects their tractor is going to break any speed or quarter mile acceleration records. So one of the things that makes a Jeep more capable offroad than most 4x4's is that it is geared more like a tractor. It's the old tortoise and the hare race. The OP seems to expect the tortoise to act more like the hare when getting on the highway. Absolutely, in that scenario there is no competition, hands down the hare out performs the tortoise. However, the OP seems to be lacking the insight of the benefits that come along with the tortoise. Maybe if he would have taken his test drives off road he would have gotten to experience where the tortoise excels and he may be expecting the hare to perform more like the tortoise for those driving situations?

The Jeep's original design heritage was essentially a 4 wheel drive passenger farm "tractor" to be able to take soldiers from point A to point B where no roads existed. It's wasn't designed to run the quarter mile in 3.5 seconds. The Wrangler today maintains that heritage to ensure it maintains those same offroad driving capabilities. True Jeepers who have Jeep in their blood would be upset if their Wrangler performed more like the hare on the highway if it meant they lost the benefits of the performance of the tortoise off the highway. So I'm unsure about the OP's stated blood type because it doesn't sound to be type Jeep to me and they may want to go get their blood type checked by a Jeep doctor.

 

[Inferno1]

Just traded my lifted 4 door wrangler rubicon for a trd pro 4runner and couldn't be happier. I now know what driving at 75 mph feels like again and not worry about death wobble or my mpgs hitting single digits.

Now with that said I'm buying a 2 door jeep for a weekend toy as I love jeeps. Just not one as a daily driver

 

[Rednroll]

IMO the biggest advantage of the Jeep is the availability of the manual transmission. That's a huge plus. The biggest disadvantage is the very poor crash ratings, especially for side impact -- having small kids, this is a deal breaker.

I'm sure having thin doors, due to having the capability to take them on and off is the reason for poor side impact crash ratings.

I try not to live my life planning for the unexpected and focusing on things that are out of my control. I can control driving carefully and keeping an eye out on the road for others who aren't in regards to protecting my family. I can't control how fast someone else is driving, and the size of the vehicle they are driving, and if they aren't paying attention and run a red light which could cause a side impact crash. For example, if a fully loaded 10 ton tractor/trailer truck, side impacts you at 65 MPH, are the higher side impact ratings really going to protect your kids or are you just planning for the event if a Scion iQ hits you in the side traveling at a speed of 20 MPH?

If that's your concern as well, then what about the roll over condition? If someone hits you from the side, then there is a higher probability when driving a SUV vehicle, that the vehicle could roll over. So are you not purchasing a 4Runner for the same reasons of family safety as well, or are you drawing an artificial line somewhere? I'm thinking the wrangler with the built in roll bars might have some benefits over the 4Runner in that side impact collision scenario huh?

Get back to me once you have these things figured out, because that's really the level of understanding you need if you're really making vehicle purchasing decisions based upon side crash impact ratings without understanding what those crash impact ratings really mean in regards to driving in the real world.

I'm pretty certain motorcycle drivers aren't making purchase decisions based upon side impact ratings as well.

 

[Phoenix4R]

My dad has a '15 JKU Rubicon and I've got a '15 Trail. We take them out on the trails around here all the time so I'm pretty familiar with both of them.

Before I bought my Trail, it was down the JKUR and the Trail. The 4Runner is going to be the better vehicle 95% of the time. Much more interior room, it's safer, it gets slightly better fuel economy, it rides 100x better, adequate power, Toyota reliability, better build quality, etc.

Obviously, the JK is better on the trails(oh, the irony....lol). Since this is my daily driver and not my second vehicle play toy, and I work in the middle of the city, the 4Runner was the better choice for me. I didn't really plan on going boulder hopping with whichever brand new $40k vehicle I chose, and the 4Runner is plenty capable of moderate trails.

If this were my second or third vehicle and I didn't have to daily drive it, I'd buy the Jeep in the heartbeat. Unfortunately I need something that can do everything well and not just one thing extremely well.

 

[Rednroll]

^^^Thus, the reason I said comparing a 4Runner to a Wrangler doesn't make any sense. They have some common functions but they appeal to drastically difference preferences. If you're going to be comparing a Jeep to a 4Runner, you should be comparing it to the Jeep Grand Cherokee because they both fit in the more comfort/luxury 4WD class of SUVs.

My Wrangler is my daily driver. The things you mention don't bother me one bit, but that's just my personal preference compared to yours which are different and there's nothing wrong with that and it's great having options that fit both. For me, having the Wrangler as a daily driver is wonderful. There's nothing I enjoy more than getting off of work on a nice summer day, and either folding the top completely down, or taking the front hard top panels off and throwing them in the back and enjoying the full open air feel with the sun shining in from above. I live in Michigan and I have similar experiences during the winter months as well. While people tend to dread the winter driving when there's over a foot of snow on the roads before they're plowed, that's when I head out onto them to go play and pull a few people out who are stuck on the side of the road while I'm at it.

For me the 4door Wrangler is the perfect daily driver that fits all the seasonal changes in Michigan which has 80-90deg summers and below 0 deg winters with snow. The 4 door rides much smoother with the longer wheel base than the 2 door and has plenty of space inside as well. It's the reason the 4 door now out sells the 2 door. It meets all my needs and gives me options that no other vehicle on the road offers. Like I said before, find me another 4WD convertible SUV with dual hard/soft top options where I can remove the doors for additional open air enjoyment or fold down the front windshield and drive along a nice sandy beach with no A pillar obstacles blocking my view with the wind blowing in my face. It doesn't exist outside of the Wrangler and they're not even options that are available on the 4Runner and if you consider opening a sun roof on the 4Runner and pretending you're getting the same experience, you're just fooling yourself because it's not even close. If these things aren't important to you for your daily driver experiences then the Wrangler probably isn't for you because the open air enjoyment that comes standard in every Wrangler is better than the 4runner's 100% of the time. For me, it's the most fun I've had in any vehicle I've previously purchased and as well as being fun, it fits all my other daily driver needs. Having a comfortable seat is good enough for me, having a "more" comfortable seat, not so much and something like that is easily upgrade-able via aftermarket options. Now tell me the cost it would take to make a convertible 4Runner with removable doors and a fold down front windshield and tell me where I can get that via after market parts.

 

[mo_mo]

^^^Thus, the reason I said comparing a 4Runner to a Wrangler doesn't make any sense. They have some common functions but they appeal to drastically difference preferences. If you're going to be comparing a Jeep to a 4Runner, you should be comparing it to the Jeep Grand Cherokee because they both fit in the more comfort/luxury 4WD class of SUVs.

My Wrangler is my daily driver. The things you mention don't bother me one bit, but that's just my personal preference compared to yours which are different and there's nothing wrong with that and it's great having options that fit both. For me, having the Wrangler as a daily driver is wonderful. There's nothing I enjoy more than getting off of work on a nice summer day, and either folding the top completely down, or taking the front hard top panels off and throwing them in the back and enjoying the full open air feel with the sun shining in from above. I live in Michigan and I have similar experiences during the winter months as well. While people tend to dread the winter driving when there's over a foot of snow on the roads before they're plowed, that's when I head out onto them to go play and pull a few people out who are stuck on the side of the road while I'm at it.

For me the 4door Wrangler is the perfect daily driver that fits all the seasonal changes in Michigan which has 80-90deg summers and below 0 deg winters with snow. The 4 door rides much smoother with the longer wheel base than the 2 door and has plenty of space inside as well. It's the reason the 4 door now out sells the 2 door. It meets all my needs and gives me options that no other vehicle on the road offers. Like I said before, find me another 4WD convertible SUV with dual hard/soft top options where I can remove the doors for additional open air enjoyment or fold down the front windshield and drive along a nice sandy beach with no A pillar obstacles blocking my view with the wind blowing in my face. It doesn't exist outside of the Wrangler and they're not even options that are available on the 4Runner and if you consider opening a sun roof on the 4Runner and pretending you're getting the same experience, you're just fooling yourself because it's not even close. If these things aren't important to you for your daily driver experiences then the Wrangler probably isn't for you because the open air enjoyment that comes standard in every Wrangler is better than the 4runner's 100% of the time. For me, it's the most fun I've had in any vehicle I've previously purchased and as well as being fun, it fits all my other daily driver needs. Having a comfortable seat is good enough for me, having a "more" comfortable seat, not so much and something like that is easily upgrade-able via aftermarket options. Now tell me the cost it would take to make a convertible 4Runner with removable doors and a fold down front windshield and tell me where I can get that via after market parts.

It's about 175 to 225 per day to rent someone else's wrangler in Moab. Pretty cheap when you think about what you're avoiding the rest of the time. Buy a Subaru for the snow. Buy a bike for wind in your hair. Buy a good pair of boots for getting away.

Many people look at 4Runners vs. Wranglers. In my opinion, the 4Runner fills a void in the JEEP line-up between a Grand Cherokee and a Wrangler.

 

[Curt Sauve]

Since 99.9% of owners of either vehicle are complete posers that couldn't finish a 10k trail run race, kill butcher and cook an animal, tend a garden, or even change their own oil, I tend to believe that it comes down to image. Just grow a big ugly beard, wear a ball cap backwards and drive either vehicle with a set of AT's and a spacer lift.

 

[Phoenix4R]

^^^Thus, the reason I said comparing a 4Runner to a Wrangler doesn't make any sense. They have some common functions but they appeal to drastically difference preferences. If you're going to be comparing a Jeep to a 4Runner, you should be comparing it to the Jeep Grand Cherokee because they both fit in the more comfort/luxury 4WD class of SUVs.

Nonsense. It makes perfect sense. There aren't two more off road capable, four door vehicles on the market in that price range. You'd have to step up to a Land Rover or something German to match the capability these vehicles have and those cost twice as much. Take a look at this very thread, there's a lot of ex-JK owners here and several people like myself that cross shopped both of them.

My Wrangler is my daily driver. The things you mention don't bother me one bit, but that's just my personal preference compared to yours which are different and there's nothing wrong with that and it's great having options that fit both. For me, having the Wrangler as a daily driver is wonderful. There's nothing I enjoy more than getting off of work on a nice summer day, and either folding the top completely down, or taking the front hard top panels off and throwing them in the back and enjoying the full open air feel with the sun shining in from above. I live in Michigan and I have similar experiences during the winter months as well. While people tend to dread the winter driving when there's over a foot of snow on the roads before they're plowed, that's when I head out onto them to go play and pull a few people out who are stuck on the side of the road while I'm at it.

That's cool, that's your opinion. I'm always amused when I see someone from a snow belt state extoling the virtues of putting the top down. For the two months you're able to, I guess?

For me the 4door Wrangler is the perfect daily driver that fits all the seasonal changes in Michigan which has 80-90deg summers and below 0 deg winters with snow. The 4 door rides much smoother with the longer wheel base than the 2 door and has plenty of space inside as well. It's the reason the 4 door now out sells the 2 door. It meets all my needs and gives me options that no other vehicle on the road offers. Like I said before, find me another 4WD convertible SUV with dual hard/soft top options where I can remove the doors for additional open air enjoyment or fold down the front windshield and drive along a nice sandy beach with no A pillar obstacles blocking my view with the wind blowing in my face. It doesn't exist outside of the Wrangler and they're not even options that are available on the 4Runner and if you consider opening a sun roof on the 4Runner and pretending you're getting the same experience, you're just fooling yourself because it's not even close.

So, I'm curious. I'm trying really hard not to use the t-word here, but why are you over on a Toyota website trying to convince us your Jeep is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Clearly your only posts here are in this thread defending your Jeep, so I'm a bit skeptical.

If these things aren't important to you for your daily driver experiences then the Wrangler probably isn't for you because the open air enjoyment that comes standard in every Wrangler is better than the 4runner's 100% of the time. For me, it's the most fun I've had in any vehicle I've previously purchased and as well as being fun, it fits all my other daily driver needs. Having a comfortable seat is good enough for me, having a "more" comfortable seat, not so much and something like that is easily upgrade-able via aftermarket options. Now tell me the cost it would take to make a convertible 4Runner with removable doors and a fold down front windshield and tell me where I can get that via after market parts.

Lol, ok, guy. I guess us lowly peon 4R owners aren't nearly as hardcore as you are, what with all of your open air beach driving. My truck spends 95% of its time on pavement so I'd rather have the vehicle that doesn't ride like a stagecoach, doesn't get gas mileage in the low double digits, will last beyond 60k miles, and isn't built in a Fischer Price factory. Your mileage may vary.

It's about 175 to 225 per day to rent someone else's wrangler in Moab. Pretty cheap when you think about what you're avoiding the rest of the time. Buy a Subaru for the snow. Buy a bike for wind in your hair. Buy a good pair of boots for getting away.

I've had the whole magnificient "open air Jeep experience" in Hawaii several times. It ain't that great. I'm usually over it after a few days.

 

[Kssting]

Phoenix have you actually driven a JKU? The ride is comfortable even with them modded out ( not as comfortable as the 4R), the newer ones get 17-20 MPG, and I personally know they will get more than 60k since my 12 has 62 on the clock. Those miles have roughly been 70% highway and the only things that have broken on the jeep were broken by me trying stupid lines. Will our new 4Runner outlast the JK - of course but again I didn't buy the jeep because it was civilized.

Having only been on the forum a little over a month I am surprised at how many people hate on the wranglers. I really thought since everyone would be into off roading that there would be a lot of cross over love between the vehicles.

 

[Phoenix4R]

Phoenix have you actually driven a JKU? The ride is comfortable even with them modded out ( not as comfortable as the 4R), the newer ones get 17-20 MPG, and I personally know they will get more than 60k since my 12 has 62 on the clock. Those miles have roughly been 70% highway and the only things that have broken on the jeep were broken by me trying stupid lines. Will our new 4Runner outlast the JK - of course but again I didn't buy the jeep because it was civilized.

Plenty of times. We rent them yearly in Hawaii and I've driven my dad's JKUR a bunch. I stand by my opinions, they aren't nearly as refined as the 4Rs are, and that's saying a lot.

Having only been on the forum a little over a month I am surprised at how many people hate on the wranglers. I really thought since everyone would be into off roading that there would be a lot of cross over love between the vehicles.

Uhh, I'm not the Jeep guy trolling a Toyota forum, with four posts to my name, all in this thread, trying to convince everyone that they should all chuck their 4Rs for JK Heeps. You like your Jeep? Great. Go play on the Jeep forums then. Existing on this forum solely to defend your purchase of a competing vehicle smacks of hurt pride or some sort of inferiority complex. I mean, really, who cares? I don't go over to the Jeep forums to troll and try to convince everyone why my Toyota is better than their Jeeps, so what's his deal?

I'm not hating on anything, I actually like the JKs a great deal and as I said before I crosshopped them with my 4R, but don't come on this forum trying to start shit and not expect some hostility in return.

 

[Rednroll]

Obviously you didn't read my earlier posts when I described the reasons justified when choosing between a Wrangler and a 4Runner, where those reasons were for the creature comforts of the 4Runner where I stated that was a no brainer choice that hands down the 4Runner was better in those regards and comparing a Wrangler to a 4Runner with a high personal preference for those items does not make any sense since that is not what the Wrangler is about. It's like comparing a Corolla to a BMW. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to buy a Wrangler, obviously most have already made their choice.

I expected the chest thumpers to eventually come out and start the rantings and take the conversation to being uncivilized. Here they are, so I'll be on my way now.

I'll be wheeling with a friend next week who owns a 4Runner. We'll be having fun doing the off road stuff, and not being judgmental of each others preference in vehicle choice. It's nice knowing not all 4Runner owner's are ass clowns like Phoenix but ass clowns typically can't be avoided in forums regardless of the vehicle they choose to drive.

Enjoy your 4Runner Phoenix. Be sure to stop by a Wrangler forum and I'm sure we'll make you feel just as welcome.