2015 performance

[Dario]

Coming from an 03 V8, the engine was the first thing that noticed and I didn't like it much. Underpowered, noisy, and coarse.

The 4Runner a "brilliant platform?" Really?

I was quoting somebody else. But yes, I think it's a very capable, very nice, well designed truck. The more I drive it the more I like it. It does seem a little under-powered. That's relative to the V8 I drive every day. I haven't found it overly noisy, and it seems very smooth to me. Maybe we're talking about different things(?). When I step on the gas it moves just fine. I don't need or a want sub 7-second 0-60 times in a truck. Other than doing heavy towing I don't see how the V6 is an issue.

The 4Runner is a body-on-frame, solid-rear-axle truck. It rides pretty well, for a truck. It handles pretty well, for a truck. It brakes pretty well, for a truck. But you will never mistake it for a car or a crossover.

I'm confused by this statement. Why are you comparing it to a crossover or a car? Driving like a car is not something I want in my truck.

I test drove a Mercedes ML350. It is a crossover about the same size and weight as the 4Runner. It drove so very much better than the 4Runner. It was night and day. The drivetrain was far better as well, faster, smoother, quieter and more responsive - gets better mileage as well. It has its faults, of course: cost and reliability.

Sure. And it's a crossover. And it drives like a car (I assume). How are the approach angles relative to a 4Runner? It's a completely different vehicle. I've driven a Land Cruiser too. So much better than a 4Runner in many ways. I'll still take the 4Runner. There's no question Mercedes makes a very nice vehicle. I had a Mercedes sedan for a while and liked it.

Is the 5th gen 4Runner a good truck? Yes. Brilliant? No, not hardly, not in any way.

This seems like a chocolate vs. vanilla argument. For your needs the ML350 is better. It depends on what you want. The 4Runner seems to have more focus on simplicity and reliability, which has more value for me. I am considering getting a 2nd one (likely a used TE) for myself.

The Limited seems a little overpriced to me. But when I factor in the reliability it's money well spent. Look at what it costs to repair a Mercedes or a Land Rover when major parts fail out of warranty. The features are reliability of the 4Runner start to look far better than the other two (at least to me). I get that your view is different.

 

[Jeff614]

FWIW, after owning my 4R for a few weeks, I am still very happy with the way it works. I was not expecting sports car handling or acceleration, I was not expecting it to ride like a cloud but I am still impressed that it does equal/outperform some of the older SUVs I have owned in the past. I would buy it again. Most of the offshoot discussions are irrelevant to me as I have what I want. I may make a few changes to it over time but that will remain to be seen.

:grouphug:

 

[Jeremy556]

And you might just be surprised by its offroad capability if you order the offroad package. That gives you a two-speed transfer case, locking center diff, and height-adjustable air suspension.

...it is every bit as capable offroad as the 4Runner. The fact that the ML350 and JGC are unibody SUVs doesn't mean they aren't capable offroad.

Every 4wd 4runner has a 2 speed transfer case, the limited has a center diff lock, the other models don't need a CDL, as they don't have a center diff. TE has a locking rear differential. Air suspension is crap for off-road, it is unreliable, and at high lift, you have no up travel.

That's hilariously false. Ask the old Cherokee guys who wheel their rigs how they like having unibody. They'll tell you how much it sucks, and that eventually they can't close their doors as the body bends.

 

[Jhalko]

FWIW, after owning my 4R for a few weeks, I am still very happy with the way it works. I was not expecting sports car handling or acceleration, I was not expecting it to ride like a cloud but I am still impressed that it does equal/outperform some of the older SUVs I have owned in the past. I would buy it again. Most of the offshoot discussions are irrelevant to me as I have what I want. I may make a few changes to it over time but that will remain to be seen.

I really love my truck too for many of the same reasons. Sorry your thread got hijacked by the trolls.

 

[Jhalko]

You are like the 50th person to come over the the 5th gen side and talk crap about the engine but you are about five years too late. I know the 4th gen is ideally suited for midgets (no headroom for normal sized Americans) and it has a V8 and a burger tray and is perfect in every way for you. Big. Effin'. Deal. It is obsolete. They don't make your dream SUV anymore. Get over it. I have a lot of miles on the 5th gen series and the more I drive them the more I appreciate the design, especially for the money. You can get a LE 4X4 for around $40K. That's not much compared to the competition.

Why are you wasting your time arguing with the same guy that started a thread in the general discussion to seemingly get people worked up about the unibody versus bof discussion? I believe he admitted he has a JGC and was droning on about it there too. Your memory must be slipping. Haha. honestly for a senior member I'd expect more, and I'm not talking about you Greg.

 

[Dario]

Why are you wasting your time arguing with the same guy that started a thread in the general discussion to seemingly get people worked up about the unibody versus bof discussion? I believe he admitted he has a JGC and was droning on about it there too. Your memory must be slipping. Haha. honestly for a senior member I'd expect more, and I'm not talking about you Greg.

I realized after replying he was likely trolling. The JGC comment makes me think this is a guy with some regret about having a JGC rather than a 4Runner. Many people seem to like them. I hope he's enjoying the non-truck-like feeling of his JGC.

 

[T4R2014]

The butthurt in this thread is off the charts. Of course unibody can work off-road. Look at any modern Land Rover RR or Discovery, if we are talking about off road performance off the dealer lot then they will run circles around a modern URJ200 or any modern Toyota for that matter. The trade-off is off course the reliability. The Mercedes, while pretty ugly IMO, will likely surprise many as stated before.

 

[Jeremy556]

The butthurt in this thread is off the charts. Of course unibody can work off-road. Look at any modern Land Rover RR or Discovery, if we are talking about off road performance off the dealer lot then they will run circles around a modern URJ200 or any modern Toyota for that matter. The trade-off is off course the reliability. The Mercedes, while pretty ugly IMO, will likely surprise many as stated before.

Some people buy way too much into Land Rover advertising. Those things lost their off road ability back at the end of the Range Rover Classic and Disco 2 days. Do you really think unibody, IFS, IRS, and modern traction control are better than BOF, solid axle, differential lock, and modern traction control? I guess the new Cherokee can run circles around a Rubicon, too?

I've seen these things stuck on level wet grass

vs

 

[T4R2014]

Some people buy way too much into Land Rover advertising. Those things lost their off road ability back at the end of the Range Rover Classic and Disco 2 days. Do you really think unibody, IFS, IRS, and modern traction control are better than BOF, solid axle, differential lock, and modern traction control? I guess the new Cherokee can run circles around a Rubicon, too?

I've seen these things stuck on level wet grass

Great. You've "seen" some stuck on wet grass. You have obviously never owned driven one if you believe they are less capable than a 4Runner. If you take out the reliability aspect, they will run circles around a stock Toyota off the pavement. BTW, the Disco 3/4 are body on frame with independent. They also manage to have better road manners with this suspension set-up. Until you actually have experience then what you have "seen" doesn't matter. Also, the Cherokee is a crossover that was built off of a car platform whereas Land Rover starts with a platform meant to deal with off-roading applications.

 

[Dario]

Great. You've "seen" some stuck on wet grass. You have obviously never owned driven one if you believe they are less capable than a 4Runner. If you take out the reliability aspect, they will run circles around a stock Toyota off the pavement. BTW, the Disco 3/4 are body on frame with independent. They also manage to have better road manners with this suspension set-up. Until you actually have experience then what you have "seen" doesn't matter. Also, the Cherokee is a crossover that was built off of a car platform whereas Land Rover starts with a platform meant to deal with off-roading applications.

As I've said here before, I'm a Rover guy. I haven't driven any of the new RRs. They may have some capability but I can't believe anybody is taking them off-road. Not even sure you could get decent tires on them.

The LR3/LR4 (aka Disco 3 and 4) are quite capable and are great on road as well. Rear locker is optional on LR3 and LR4. Hard to find it on used ones. The RR Classic and Disco I and II are quite good off road as well, but suffer from a lack of diff locks (some Discos had rear, some don't). Rover knows how to make an capable off-road vehicle. The market wants something different.

The reliability relative to a 4Runner - just no comparison. A Rover out in the middle of nowhere when the air suspension starts to leak vs. 4Runner with KDSS... I'll take the 4Runner.

 

[T4R2014]

As I've said here before, I'm a Rover guy. I haven't driven any of the new RRs. They may have some capability but I can't believe anybody is taking them off-road. Not even sure you could get decent tires on them.

The LR3/LR4 (aka Disco 3 and 4) are quite capable and are great on road as well. Rear locker is optional on LR3 and LR4. Hard to find it on used ones. The RR Classic and Disco I and II are quite off road as well, but suffer from a lack of diff locks (some Discos had rear, some don't). Rover knows how to make an amazing off-road vehicle. The market wants something different.

The reliability relative to a 4Runner - just no comparison. A Rover out in the middle of nowhere when the air suspension starts to leak vs. 4Runner with KDSS... I'll take the 4Runner.

Even without the rear locker the terrain response works amazing. The Range Rover can wheel, it's just that the majority of owners buy them as status symbols and make them look douchey. Of course tires are available for them. Most of the tools I know that have them look at me funny for saying that a set of A/T's would look fantastic as opposed to their hideous 24's on low profiles. :repuke: The Rover V8 in the old LR's are crap. They go through head gaskets like no other. Slipped cylinder liners are a huge issue on the 4.6's. I would much rather have the AJ V8 in the newer LR's.

I think I made the reliability aspect quite clear in my original post. Thanks for bringing it up, though.

 

[alico268]

The butthurt in this thread is off the charts. Of course unibody can work off-road. Look at any modern Land Rover RR or Discovery, if we are talking about off road performance off the dealer lot then they will run circles around a modern URJ200 or any modern Toyota for that matter. The trade-off is off course the reliability. The Mercedes, while pretty ugly IMO, will likely surprise many as stated before.

Butthurt?? The OP bought a 4Runner, came to a 4Runner forum and spoke positively of his 4Runner purchase in its own right without making comparison, god. effing. forbid.

In response, some who don't like 5th gen 4Runners, begin trying to trump said 4Runner with makes and models for which there are other forums with owners that share their experiences and knowledge of those vehicles. Which camp looks to have the sore bungholes?

 

[Jhalko]

Great. You've "seen" some stuck on wet grass. You have obviously never owned driven one if you believe they are less capable than a 4Runner. If you take out the reliability aspect, they will run circles around a stock Toyota off the pavement. BTW, the Disco 3/4 are body on frame with independent. They also manage to have better road manners with this suspension set-up. Until you actually have experience then what you have "seen" doesn't matter. Also, the Cherokee is a crossover that was built off of a car platform whereas Land Rover starts with a platform meant to deal with off-roading applications.

Moab is practically his backyard and his wheeling experience is legit. Personally after seeing him out there what seems like every other weekend I don't really question his cred.

 

[Dario]

Even without the rear locker the terrain response works amazing. The Range Rover can wheel, it's just that the majority of owners buy them as status symbols and make them look douchey. Of course tires are available for them. Most of the tools I know that have them look at me funny for saying that a set of A/T's would look fantastic as opposed to their hideous 24's on low profiles. :repuke:

My point was rim size and clearance. With smaller rims there would be room for rubber. Rover terrain response without the locker is good. Better with a locker.

The Rover V8 in the old LR's are crap. They go through head gaskets like no other. Slipped cylinder liners are a huge issue on the 4.6's. I would much rather have the AJ V8 in the newer LR's.

For the later versions of the older V8 enlarged to 4.6L. Previous versions were quite good. My RR Classic went 230K miles with no mechanical issues. Last I heard it was still driving. I have a Disco II sitting in my driveway with a bad head gasket with only 60K miles on the engine. :cry2:

Agreed on the Jag V8. No comparison between that and the Rover engine. (For non-Rover people, Rover used a small Buick V8 from ~1960 and increased displacement over time. Pushrod, flat tappet cams - old tech). The Jag V8 is a great driving engine and seems to be very reliable.

I think I made the reliability aspect quite clear in my original post. Thanks for bringing it up, though.

You did. I was chiming in to support your point.

 

[T4R2014]

Butthurt?? The OP bought a 4Runner, came to a 4Runner forum and spoke positively of his 4Runner purchase in its own right without making comparison, god. effing. forbid.

In response, some who don't like 5th gen 4Runners, begin trying to trump said 4Runner with makes and models for which there are other forums with owners that share their experiences and knowledge of those vehicles. Which camp looks to have the sore bungholes?

I wasn't aiming at OP. I didn't even criticize the 5th gen. I don't mind it. I was referring to the other posts. Calm down bro. You sound tense.

 

[T4R2014]

Moab is practically his backyard and his wheeling experience is legit. Personally after seeing him out there what seems like every other weekend I don't really question his cred.

So Moab is his backyard and he still has no experience with Land Rover's? Way to kiss ass. I have plenty of experience with them.

 

[Dario]

So Moab is his backyard and he still has no experience with Land Rover's? Way to kiss ass. I have plenty of experience with them.

Not sure why but I find this hysterical. If you wheel enough I have to believe you're seeing a few Rovers. They're usually the ones pulling Jeeps out of the mud. (To be fair, I've seen a lot of classic RRs get pulled out of stuff too. No lockers and no TC is a tough combo.)

 

[T4R2014]

Not sure why but I find this hysterical. If you wheel enough I have to believe you're seeing a few Rovers. They're usually the ones pulling Jeeps out of the mud. (To be fair, I've seen a lot of classic RRs get pulled out of stuff too. No lockers and no TC is a tough combo.)

It is utterly comical to me. Despite my dislike of the Rover V8, I have to have a RR classic. Preferably with the older dash. I've considered a D1 to mess around with as well.

 

[Jhalko]

Way to kiss ass.

That's funny.

BTW trying to argue about the superiority of a LR excluding quality issues is like saying beer is great without alcohol.

 

[Jeremy556]

Great. You've "seen" some stuck on wet grass. You have obviously never owned driven one if you believe they are less capable than a 4Runner. If you take out the reliability aspect, they will run circles around a stock Toyota off the pavement. BTW, the Disco 3/4 are body on frame with independent. They also manage to have better road manners with this suspension set-up. Until you actually have experience then what you have "seen" doesn't matter. Also, the Cherokee is a crossover that was built off of a car platform whereas Land Rover starts with a platform meant to deal with off-roading applications.

I've driven the previous model Range Rover a bit, but never off road. They are very nice, luxurious vehicles, and ride and handle way better than a 4runner on the road.

Exactly what features/aspects give a Range Rover an off road advantage over a 4runner?

Do you think a Range Rover or a Defender is better off road? Why?