2015 performance

[M1911]

Yeah, there's some guys around here that just look for any posts where someone says good things about the 5th gen so they can trash it.

I came to this thread because, having recently test driven a 5th gen, I was really disappointed with it. And I was surprised by that. Really surprised.

Unfortunately, when someone criticizes their vehicle, many seem to take it as an affront to their manhood and are unable to objectively consider the criticism.

Does the 5th Gen 4Runner have good points? Sure. The size is reasonable. The reliability is very good. It has good offroad ability.

But with that comes drawbacks. Those drawbacks would be considerably lessened if Toyota would finally update the drivetrain, which is overdue.

I'm not anti Toyota. I'm not anti 4Runner. I've owned my '03 since new. And now that Toyota is going to replace my frame, it looks like I'm going to be keeping it for a while longer.

 

[Donkey]

This thread got weird fast.

I am very happy with the performance of my 4Runner. Over 20 MPG on highway trips @ 70 mph, hits 60 in under eight seconds, corners better than it should on pavement and goes anywhere I need off pavement. I am tempted by the land cruiser but will likely keep this truck for quite a while.

 

[Dario]

But with that comes drawbacks. Those drawbacks would be considerably lessened if Toyota would finally update the drivetrain, which is overdue.

Please elaborate. Is it the 4WD system or something else? Looking to get educated, not argue.

I've owned my '03 since new. And now that Toyota is going to replace my frame, it looks like I'm going to be keeping it for a while longer.

Please elaborate. I read about some frame rust issues. Is this a recall for early 4Runners? Did Toyota do so willingly or did it take some legal action. If Toyota stepped up and did the right thing I will be encouraging them with my wallet going forward.

 

[M1911]

Please elaborate. Is it the 4WD system or something else? Looking to get educated, not argue.

The 4WD system is just fine, especially in the Limited. The lockable, limited-slip Torsen center diff in the Limited (and all trims of the 4th gen) is top-shelf. The part-time in the other trims of the 5th gen is cheaper and, IMO, less desirable.

The issues that I have with the 5th gen drivetrain are 1) the engine and 2) the transmission. When you combine the two, it just doesn't have the sophistication that I think the price point deserves. The engine note is coarse and you have to wind the engine up to get enough power to move the truck. It needs more than 5 speeds. Six speeds is the standard these days, with many already at 7 and moving upwards. If you haven't driven a vehicle with these new transmissions, I suggest that you try it. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Go drive a 4th gen V8. It has so much low RPM torque that you can accelerate quickly without ever turning much revs, and as a result it is quick and quiet. While the 5th gen V6 is nearly as quick, you've got to rev it hard to get the same acceleration and the engine note is just nasty. You have to kick the 5th gen to get it to downshift and up the revs and it is just unpleasant in comparison. In the 4th gen it just scoots with no drama.

Look at it another way. When was the last time that Toyota upgraded that transmission? It dates back to the 4th gen. When was the last time that Toyota updated that V6? Again, dates back to the 4th gen. As a result, there are fullsize pickup trucks that get better fuel economy than the 4Runner.

No, I'm not a "it has to have a V8" guy. I drove the ML350 (admittedly a more expensive vehicle and one that does not have Toyota reliablity). It has a V6 smaller than the 4Runner and a 7-speed transmission. It weighs about the same, but is quite a bit faster and much more responsive all the while achieving better fuel economy. The engine note is very pleasing. Though you do have to rev it a bit, the transmission responds instantly and the engine never sounds coarse. It moves.

There are many ways to get decent performance these days. Ford has gone the small-displacement plus turbo route. Chrysler is going diesel and 8-speed transmission. GM is doing variable displacement plus diesel. It takes engineering and that costs money. Toyota needs to invest.

Please elaborate. I read about some frame rust issues. Is this a recall for early 4Runners? Did Toyota do so willingly or did it take some legal action. If Toyota stepped up and did the right thing I will be encouraging them with my wallet going forward.

No, there is no recall or TSB. Toyota appears to be handling it on a case-by-case basis. See this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/180929-frame-rust.html

I'm not trying to slam Toyota or insult people who own and like their 5th gens. I'm just pointing out that they aren't perfect. I think Toyota has under-invested in the 4Runner. I'd like to see them make it better. They could make it perform better and get better mileage while still being capable offroad.

 

[M1911]

You just said it again, and I still think it is laughable.

Trouble reading?

Try reading it again:

I said that the JGC is every bit as capable offroad as the 4Runner, and it is when properly equipped. It has less rear overhang, so I'd bet it has a better departure angle as well (which you pay for in reduced cargo capacity).

I did say that the ML350 when properly optioned might surprise you. With low range, height adjustable suspension, and a locking center diff, why do you think that the ML350 with offroad package wouldn't be reasonably capable offroad?

 

[M1911]

Unibody outperforms the body on frame off-road? :snacker:

1) Who said outperform? I didn't. For Christ sakes, if you are going to criticize what I write, actually criticize what I write. Don't make up a strawman argument.

2) How does unibody versus frame have much of anything to do with how a vehicle performs offroad? The important things for offroad performance are drivetrain (locking diffs, traction control systems, low-range transfer case), axle articulation, ground clearance and angles. None of which have a damn thing to do with whether the vehicles is unibody or body-on-frame.

When properly equipped, an ML350 has a two-speed transfer case, locking center diff and 11" of ground clearance. Would it make it up the Rubicon? No, but I suspect it is more than adequate offroad for most folks.

Instead of just saying "that's laughable" be specific. What, in particular, would make an ML350 with decent tires perform badly offroad when it is equipped with the offroad option? If all you are saying is "that's laughable" what that means is that you have no evidence to support your argument.

 

[1engineer]

1) Who said outperform? I didn't. For Christ sakes, if you are going to criticize what I write, actually criticize what I write. Don't make up a strawman argument.

2) How does unibody versus frame have much of anything to do with how a vehicle performs offroad? The important things for offroad performance are drivetrain (locking diffs, traction control systems, low-range transfer case), axle articulation, ground clearance and angles. None of which have a damn thing to do with whether the vehicles is unibody or body-on-frame.

When properly equipped, an ML350 has a two-speed transfer case, locking center diff and 11" of ground clearance. Would it make it up the Rubicon? No, but I suspect it is more than adequate offroad for most folks.

Instead of just saying "that's laughable" be specific. What, in particular, would make an ML350 with decent tires perform badly offroad when it is equipped with the offroad option? If all you are saying is "that's laughable" what that means is that you have no evidence to support your argument.

They bend much easier than vehicles with a proper frame.

 

[Dario]

The issues that I have with the 5th gen drivetrain are 1) the engine and 2) the transmission. When you combine the two, it just doesn't have the sophistication that I think the price point deserves. The engine note is coarse and you have to wind the engine up to get enough power to move the truck. It needs more than 5 speeds. Six speeds is the standard these days, with many already at 7 and moving upwards. If you haven't driven a vehicle with these new transmissions, I suggest that you try it. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Go drive a 4th gen V8. It has so much low RPM torque that you can accelerate quickly without ever turning much revs, and as a result it is quick and quiet.
<snip>
When was the last time that Toyota updated that V6? Again, dates back to the 4th gen. As a result, there are fullsize pickup trucks that get better fuel economy than the 4Runner.

Thanks for the details, and got it. I get that the tranny is dated. Engine note I don't even notice, but that's just me. I agree the power band is very different. I think you're saying you need to wind it up to get some torque.

And yes on the fuel economy - there's much better technology out now. Doesn't Chrysler have a V8 out that has tons of power but gets 35+ on the highway (Challenger, maybe?).

I would like all that too, and at the same price point. I have no idea what Toyota is thinking. My guess is that it's about how many 4Runners sell and how strong demand is along with not encroaching into the Land Cruiser territory.

No, there is no recall or TSB. Toyota appears to be handling it on a case-by-case basis. See this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/180929-frame-rust.html

Will read that other discussion. Glad to see they're doing something, and congrats on getting yours taken care of.

 

[Jhalko]

I think everyone else moved on out of respect for [MENTION=116008]BettysNephew[/MENTION] and his POSITIVE 4runner thread. Maybe someone should start their own thread about unibody versus bof. Just sayin'

:deadhorse:

 

[BettysNephew]

I think everyone else moved on out of respect for [MENTION=116008]BettysNephew[/MENTION] and his POSITIVE 4runner thread. Maybe someone should start their own thread about unibody versus bof. Just sayin'

:deadhorse:

At least somebody gets it!!

Mods if possible, please lock this thread.

 

[1engineer]

At least somebody gets it!!

Mods if possible, please lock this thread.

Is this your first time on the internet? Very few threads stay on topic for any length of time. Glad you like your vehicle and I happen to like mine too. Asking a mod to lock a thread just because it went a bit off topic? I would consider yourself lucky it had one page on topic considering the subject.

 

[Jhalko]

Is this your first time on the internet? Very few threads stay on topic for any length of time. Glad you like your vehicle and I happen to like mine too. Asking a mod to lock a thread just because it went a bit off topic? I would consider yourself lucky it had one page on topic considering the subject.

Lately it's the positive ones that get trolled by the 5th gen haters. Yo!

:fro:

 

[sickk21]

I personally cannot stand the way our '14 Limited drives. I would go as far to say I hate it. Buuuuut it's such a good vehicle, I think it looks cool, and it's pretty comfy for having cardboard feeling leather (or fake leather?) seats. One thing that impresses me with this vehicle is its a dinosaur and our mpg has been relatively stellar. It's not all that slow, by far not a race car but it can hold its own. And it has a strong motor, torque wise. We came from a '13 MDX Advance. Drove amazing. It was quick. But not strong, it was low on torque where the 4Runner is slow but strong due to its advantage with torque. The MDX drove like a sports car almost. Got terrible mpg and required premium gas. Overall, I'm extremely happy with our 4Runner. I just don't like to drive it.

 

[Jeff614]

Wow! Been away from the forums for the holiday and this thread is growing like a weed. I even had started a reply I never finished wondering when it was gonna be necessary for 1engineer to step in on this one..... I see that time has come and gone (meant in a good way !)

The OP should get some sort of award for most topics in one thread, especially considering the poor fellow had nothing to do with them.

Don't see too many locks on here but maybe this ones a candidate or just leave open as the place to come complain, rant, and argue thread lol.

- Jeff

 

[fourwd1]

Closed at the request of the OP and numerous others.