2016 TE - Rear Diff Not Locking

[Engineer]

......, slight turning will do the damage.

This is a bit mis leading, you are correct in that there is no real reason to use a part time 4x4 system on dry pavement however you phrase it like the truck will explode if you do. Not the case, binding , chirping, hopping yes but i have never heard of anyone doing any damage on a 4runner by using 4x4 on dry pavement. It gives such an unpleasant driving experience that you will switch out of it long before doing long term damage to driveline components.

.......now heavy throttle in low traction environments when you all the sudden gain traction (exaggerated when the trucks weight is coming down on a tire or two) is a sure way to break something in the drive train.

 

[WI4Runnin]

Solid red is what I wanted to make sure of .
Thanks

 

[wfo9]

slight turning will do the damage

LOL.

Dude you need to come see what some of us do to these trucks. You would be amazed how much abuse they can take. Hard core off-road driving can be brutal on the drive line....

Driving in 4wd on dry pavement won't hurt a darn things besides wear out your tires fast... Sharp right hnd turns will cause some barks.. but if s you can take the turns at ~30mph.... no issues at all.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

LOL.

Dude you need to come see what some of us do to these trucks. You would be amazed how much abuse they can take. Hard core off-road driving can be brutal on the drive line....

Driving in 4wd on dry pavement won't hurt a darn things besides wear out your tires fast... Sharp right hnd turns will cause some barks.. but if s you can take the turns at ~30mph.... no issues at all.

My pops drove his '03 Jeep Liberty with 200k for over 100 miles in 4WD on totally dry winding mountain roads. It did nothing. If an old ass Jeep Liberty can take it, the 4Runner sure as hell will

 

[catrains]

This is a bit mis leading, you are correct in that there is no real reason to use a part time 4x4 system on dry pavement however you phrase it like the truck will explode if you do. Not the case, binding , chirping, hopping yes but i have never heard of anyone doing any damage on a 4runner by using 4x4 on dry pavement. It gives such an unpleasant driving experience that you will switch out of it long before doing long term damage to driveline components.

.......now heavy throttle in low traction environments when you all the sudden gain traction (exaggerated when the trucks weight is coming down on a tire or two) is a sure way to break something in the drive train.

truck will not explode but the drive train will wear out get damaged so don't use 4WD on the solid dry pavement no reason wait for the rain/snow to come to test it out or drive on the unpaved road.

you know some will drive the vehicle in 4WD on pavement thinking its no big deal perhaps forget its in 4WD ...

I do know some that never had 4WD thought to always run in 4WD and this caused them expensive repairs.

drive train will not suddenly break it just wears down much faster .

 

[1engineer]

truck will not explode but the drive train will wear out get damaged so don't use 4WD on the solid dry pavement no reason wait for the rain/snow to come to test it out or drive on the unpaved road.

you know some will drive the vehicle in 4WD on pavement thinking its no big deal perhaps forget its in 4WD ...

I do know some that never had 4WD thought to always run in 4WD and this caused them expensive repairs.

drive train will not suddenly break it just wears down much faster .

No, there is a reason to engage 4HI on dry roads. If you would read your owner's manual you would see that Toyota recommends driving in 4HI 10 miles a month... regardless if you live in Death Valley or on top of Mt. Shasta.
Everyone - IT WILL NOT HURT (or wear out drivetrain, or tires) your 4Runner to engage 4HI every so often on fairly straight dry pavement. You are SUPPOSED to do that to keep things lubricated.
Personally, in the summer months I have a road I travel daily that has a nice straight stretch about a mile long. Every few weeks or so I engage 4HI on that section and when I get to the curves I take it out of 4HI and I have done my job. Just remember to take it back out of 4HI and yes, it's fine if the road has slight curves too. I would refrain from driving in city or doing parking lot turns while in 4HI because it will scrub the tires and jump around a bit. Will that cause damage? I guess if you did it every day for a long period of time it would wear tires and components but if you forget and do it then no, you won't do any damage. Yes, I have forgotten a time or two.
[MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] is absolutely correct - when you are off road in 4WD you can and will put incredible stress on the 4WD system.... a lot more than a dry pavement turn in 4HI! They do just fine in those conditions.

 

[catrains]

No, there is a reason to engage 4HI on dry roads. If you would read your owner's manual you would see that Toyota recommends driving in 4HI 10 miles a month... regardless if you live in Death Valley or on top of Mt. Shasta.
Everyone - IT WILL NOT HURT (or wear out drivetrain, or tires) your 4Runner to engage 4HI every so often on fairly straight dry pavement. You are SUPPOSED to do that to keep things lubricated.
Personally, in the summer months I have a road I travel daily that has a nice straight stretch about a mile long. Every few weeks or so I engage 4HI on that section and when I get to the curves I take it out of 4HI and I have done my job. Just remember to take it back out of 4HI and yes, it's fine if the road has slight curves too. I would refrain from driving in city or doing parking lot turns while in 4HI because it will scrub the tires and jump around a bit. Will that cause damage? I guess if you did it every day for a long period of time it would wear tires and components but if you forget and do it then no, you won't do any damage. Yes, I have forgotten a time or two.

[MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] is absolutely correct - when you are off road in 4WD you can and will put incredible stress on the 4WD system.... a lot more than a dry pavement turn in 4HI! They do just fine in those conditions.

Perhaps your owners manual is not the same as my manual .........

2016 owners manual pg231 "H4 high speed 4WD use this for driving only on tracks that permit the tires to slide, like off road , icy, or snow covered roads . this position provides better traction than 2wd. "

Now it may be a translation thing on track being a roadway.

so as I tell owners its your vehicle your the only person that will have to pay for the operation as you like.

Surprised that your manual is not as my manual states ? I can read manuals , lots of experience .

This is part time 4WD.

 

[catrains]

My pops drove his '03 Jeep Liberty with 200k for over 100 miles in 4WD on totally dry winding mountain roads. It did nothing. If an old ass Jeep Liberty can take it, the 4Runner sure as hell will

you can drive forever on unpaved roads in 4WD... tires do slip on those surfaces .

 

[catrains]

LOL.

Dude you need to come see what some of us do to these trucks. You would be amazed how much abuse they can take. Hard core off-road driving can be brutal on the drive line....

Driving in 4wd on dry pavement won't hurt a darn things besides wear out your tires fast... Sharp right hnd turns will cause some barks.. but if s you can take the turns at ~30mph.... no issues at all.

my 2016 manual states not to use 4WD on solid dry tracks , which appears to be meaning paved road .

 

[Woz1976-MT]

my 2016 manual states not to use 4WD on solid dry tracks , which appears to be meaning paved road .

Yes, the manual does state that. However, the manual is designed for the "lowest common denominator" of owners -- meaning Toyota has to keep it simple for those people who don't understand what differentials and transfer cases are, or how AWD, part-time 4WD and full-time 4WD function.

As I stated before, if there are no rotational differences between the rear tires (when the rear differential lock is engaged) or no rotational differences between the front and rear tires (when 4WD high or low is engaged) there is no risk of damage to the vehicle.

Please note in the following video that the same recommendation is made about part-time 4WD, but it is explained that this is because of turning a vehicle with 4WD engaged. Even then, at low speed and minor steering angles, your drivetrain will not be damaged. The coefficient of friction between the tires and the roadway is far less than the forces applied to the gears in the differentials; therefore, the tires will break free first when turning on dry pavement in 4WD and/or the rear differential locked.

(Note: At the 44 second mark is the explanation of part-time 4WD on dry pavement.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Wy5ENm_lM

 

[darenwelsh]

Back to the original topic ... I have a question since I'm new to off-roading. I didn't realize you had to be moving to lock the rear differential. So if you get into a situation where you are stuck and both your front and rear driving tire are spinning (and you wish you had locked the rear diff, but didn't), what do you do? When you're planning a route that might require both rear tires do you just proactively lock the differential before getting into such terrain?

 

[catrains]

Yes, the manual does state that. However, the manual is designed for the "lowest common denominator" of owners -- meaning Toyota has to keep it simple for those people who don't understand what differentials and transfer cases are, or how AWD, part-time 4WD and full-time 4WD function.

As I stated before, if there are no rotational differences between the rear tires (when the rear differential lock is engaged) or no rotational differences between the front and rear tires (when 4WD high or low is engaged) there is no risk of damage to the vehicle.

Please note in the following video that the same recommendation is made about part-time 4WD, but it is explained that this is because of turning a vehicle with 4WD engaged. Even then, at low speed and minor steering angles, your drivetrain will not be damaged. The coefficient of friction between the tires and the roadway is far less than the forces applied to the gears in the differentials; therefore, the tires will break free first when turning on dry pavement in 4WD and/or the rear differential locked.

(Note: At the 44 second mark is the explanation of part-time 4WD on dry pavement.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Wy5ENm_lM

like I said before its your vehicle , you pay for the wear issues.

 

[STX4Runner]

Back to the original topic ... I have a question since I'm new to off-roading. I didn't realize you had to be moving to lock the rear differential. So if you get into a situation where you are stuck and both your front and rear driving tire are spinning (and you wish you had locked the rear diff, but didn't), what do you do? When you're planning a route that might require both rear tires do you just proactively lock the differential before getting into such terrain?

You can be proactive and lock the diff before you need it, but I think that leads people to start thinking they need it all the time when they don't. Try the obstacle first unlocked, if you get stuck and think you need the locker, back up, lock the diff and then go. If you can't back up, hit the locker button and gently give it gas. It'll probably lock up then and you should be GTG.

 

[3wbdriver]

Back to the original topic ... I have a question since I'm new to off-roading. I didn't realize you had to be moving to lock the rear differential. So if you get into a situation where you are stuck and both your front and rear driving tire are spinning (and you wish you had locked the rear diff, but didn't), what do you do? When you're planning a route that might require both rear tires do you just proactively lock the differential before getting into such terrain?

I do. But sometimes it can help if you lock it after you know you are in trouble. I've used it several times when I had a front and rear wheel up in the air. Just blipped it in long enough to turn the rear wheel that had traction to pull me through the obstacle (A-trac is also helpful in this situation). The fact that one tire is spinning will allow it to lock without rolling forward. But think of it like when you should put it in 4wd. If you wait until you need it you may be too late. You'll learn when to use it more as you gain experience.

 

[wfo9]

Back to the original topic ... I have a question since I'm new to off-roading. I didn't realize you had to be moving to lock the rear differential. So if you get into a situation where you are stuck and both your front and rear driving tire are spinning (and you wish you had locked the rear diff, but didn't), what do you do? When you're planning a route that might require both rear tires do you just proactively lock the differential before getting into such terrain?

Typically.. it is on an obstacle by obstacle basis.

Momentum (even very slow speed controlled momentum) is key to getting through a lot of traction challenged obstacles. So you will want to have it on going into it. I'm not shy at all about using my locker. Sure you might not need it, but by the time you figure that out... so much more wear and tear is typically done. You just have to experiment to get a feel for it and even then.... there will be surprises.

That is one really nice thing about an air locker though.. It engages instantly when you push the button and can be done under load. But I still typically lock it before rolling into a difficult obstacle. Also, it can be useful on extreme descents as well.... many people overlook that. Overall, you just have to learn when to use it. It's not always a good thing as it does make the rear end walk around more in certain conditions.

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

I have tested engaging the locker while moving and while static. Either way it takes the same amount of time for the system to engage the locker.

 

[catrains]

Back to the original topic ... I have a question since I'm new to off-roading. I didn't realize you had to be moving to lock the rear differential. So if you get into a situation where you are stuck and both your front and rear driving tire are spinning (and you wish you had locked the rear diff, but didn't), what do you do? When you're planning a route that might require both rear tires do you just proactively lock the differential before getting into such terrain?

like you say the tires are spinning so it will lock . if no spin then it could bind and not lock slight spin then it should lock.

vehicle not moving has no effect , tires rotating should get it to lock ,

 

[FelixFJ40]

..... If you wait until you need it you may be too late. You'll learn when to use it more as you gain experience.

Actually, I disagree. I've only had the 4Runner for a couple weeks, but I'm not new to wheeling. I learned to drive on dirt, mud and rock in an FJ40 with open diffs, and I think I'm a better driver now as a result. I eventually put an Aussie locker in the rear and then built up my 80 series (stock front and rear e-lockers), but spending time driving an open/open rig made me learn how to choose the right line retain traction at all four tires (when possible).

My recommendation for those new to driving offroad is to try an obstacle unlocked first and do so with little momentum. If you maintain traction, you won't need the momentum to get through. And without the momentum, you aren't likely to get to a point where you can't reverse back and try another line. After a couple tries (particularly if you've got a line of folks behind you) throw the locker on and walk over it. As time goes on, you'll learn exactly what your truck is capable of with open diffs. You'll be amazed.

If you do get into a situation where you can't back down, your locker will still engage. It's not the physical motion of the truck across the ground that lets the locker click in after you've hit the switch, it's the difference in rotational speed between the right and left side tires. That's why turning back and forth over a few feet works; it forces the tires to spin at different speeds. If you lose traction on one side that prevents you from backing up, your locker will engage. If you lose traction on both sides, your locker wouldn't have helped anyway.

 

[FelixFJ40]

like you say the tires are spinning so it will lock . if no spin then it could bind and not lock slight spin then it should lock.

vehicle not moving has no effect , tires rotating should get it to lock ,

catrains said it faster.

One more thing.... remember, it's momentum that breaks stuff. Not saying you don't need to bump the throttle here and there to get over an obstacle, but to take the momentum approach as your default is asking for trouble. Ask me how I know.

Mud situations excluded, of course.

 

[darenwelsh]

Ok, I think I'm getting the picture. Thanks for all the detailed explanations.