2020 TRD Pro Updates - Army Green & Push Button Start

[SendInTheCavalry]

I haven’t read through all the posts yet...

I have seen nothing about a interior refresh so I wonder if the CarPlay radio will swap into the previous gen?

 

[arehman11]

I was able to see through the trees from behind today. It's just a side exit on the passenger side. Not a dual exhaust. Just another typo on that card.

That's even better!

 

[Jetboy]

I wish I knew more about transmissions to chime in. Theoretically, if one were to acquire the correct 6AT tranny & gearing, I wonder what would happen...

My guess is that the plug where the wire loom connects to the transmission would have a different end - so the two could not plug together. At that point you're now moving on to figure out how to cut the wiring apart and connect the proper wiring to the new transmission. I think 95% of all of the wiring would be the same, so it would just be a matter of looking at both wiring diagrams and connecting the proper wire from one system to the other. The problem is that you wouldn't get 6th gear that way.

The simple idea is that the solenoids open or close and that controls hydraulic pressure (uses transmission fluid as the hydraulic fluid). The hydraulic system opens or closes clutches internally. The clutches either engage or disengage certain rotating parts to either stop them from free spinning or clamp them to a spinning shaft to make them spin. By doing this with planetary gear sets you can have multiple different gear ratios. This is not exactly technically correct - but imagine it this way; you have all 6 gears. You can use each gear by selecting the right clutch set to engage that gear. The 5AT has all 6 gears. But it doesn't have the ability to choose gear 6 because the solenoid so there's no where to send the signal to do so and it is missing and it's also missing the clutch part inside to do it. But the actual 6th gear is already in there. Always has been. You just can't use it.

If you swapped in a 6AT, there probably isn't any wires to select 6th gear because the wiring was only designed for 5 gears using 7 solenoids. The 6th gear requires two more solenoids, so it needs 2 more signal wires that are not there. So it would be, in a rough sense, like having an extra set of lights in your hall way, but no switch, so you'll need to figure out how to switch on the extra lights at the right times.

What gets very complicated is that there's a ton of other stuff going on during shifts, like a slight depower of the engine to reduce wear on the clutches, and all of the shift logic that happens. The solenoids are not on/off - they have a range between on and off that is not linear with the voltage applied. So to get a smooth shift you need to control the voltage applied to ramp from off to on in a non-linear ramp up. You can't just flip off to on or you'll have a very rough shift. And the A750 uses artificial intelligence to learn how you drive and also take input from all sorts of sensors around the vehicle to determine the intention of the driver and adjust shift patterns.

In modern vehicles with a single computer that runs everything, it would require finding someone like Orange Virus to do a custom software to make it work if it is even possible. The computer may not even have enough output pins to add the extra signal wires that need to go to the solenoids. The other alternative is to run the transmission on its own computer separately.

In the end - it's probably not realistic to swap them unless you really are glutton for punishment. Because of the electronics.

But Toyota could with almost no effort. And it's very frustrating that Toyota doesn't do it. Toyota already has the software written. It has the wiring. All the heavy lifting has already been done. The 5AT isn't bad. It's exceptionally durable, relatively light weight, efficient, and has plenty of gear spread. It's just annoying that it's really a 6 speed that won't let us use 6th gear.

 

[EboneCapone]

Do all 2019 TRD Pro's come with the rear sliding deck?

My local dealer is advising me they all come with it, but it can be removed but it doesn't make the trunk area flat. I see in the brochure that it is an Option, but when i go to build it online it is already included. Is that due to my location or something? I'm in Oklahoma.

Thanks!

 

[FZRunner]

Do all 2019 TRD Pro's come with the rear sliding deck?

My local dealer is advising me they all come with it, but it can be removed but it doesn't make the trunk area flat. I see in the brochure that it is an Option, but when i go to build it online it is already included. Is that due to my location or something? I'm in Oklahoma.

Thanks!

From my recent investigations, they seem to be very regional. Saw a bunch in the Florida area (VB's), but you won't find them much up in Seattle. I was checking them out and found some non pro's in Oregon. Some very helpful members posted about the regional stuff a while back, which led me to search that way. Anyway, Texas (& OK) and Seattle will be totally different, but Florida and Texas may be similar. Very confusing.

 

[EboneCapone]

From my recent investigations, they seem to be very regional. Saw a bunch in the Florida area (VB's), but you won't find them much up in Seattle. I was checking them out and found some non pro's in Oregon. Some very helpful members posted about the regional stuff a while back, which lead me to search that way. Anyway, Texas (& OK) and Seattle will be totally different, but Florida and Texas may be similar. Very confusing.

Yeah, i just "built" one online using a CA zip code, and it only required the sliding deck if you picked White. Wasn't required for Voodoo or black....dont know how far i would be willing to travel to get one without the deck. May just need to see one in person, to make sure it isn't too in the way. Just worry about the height you lose in the cargo area.

 

[Big_Cuss]

My gut says there's likely some more complex reason the 5th gen doesn't get the sixth gear as standard.

Whether it's some nvh factor that's deemed acceptable in a more of a work vehicke (Tacoma), the power range not playing nice with the gear spread as much, the practicality of having a set final drive ratio and tons of repair parts available in inventory (vs having to change it and build inventory so close to the end of the 5th gen's run) to possibly even barely any ending change to mpg. Something.

Toyota is a lot of things, but purely being stubborn for cost/cheapskates is not one of them. They defined the practice of continuous improvement, and make tons of tiny iterative changes in part runs that end up benefitting reliability. I also suspect they've made subtle tuning improvements to the 4.0L through the years.

Gears are gears. In the real world fewer is often better. Makers just add more for CAFE tests. So unless all 6 gear ratios are optimized, adding only one more inside the spread is useless. In fact I suspect the 6th gear works in the Tacoma because it lines up well somehow with the Atkinson cycle cruising rpm at some speed.

 

[phillyd2]

Somewhere around 2015 the LC Prado got a new 6 Speed and the GX640 has a ‘Six-speed sequential-shift automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i)’ so it’s not unreasonable to expect something similar for the 4R since it shares the platform.

 

[Gecko]

Toyota is a lot of things, but purely being stubborn for cost/cheapskates is not one of them.

Look man, I love Toyota as much of the rest of us, but this is straight up untrue and the examples are numerous. Toyota didn't become the most profitable auto maker by dumping nonstop R&D into every vehicle at every turn. They have a history of "set it and forget it" and letting products sit until they are basically inexcusable, and THEN finally redesigning them.

In the real world fewer is often better. Makers just add more for CAFE tests. So unless all 6 gear ratios are optimized, adding only one more inside the spread is useless. In fact I suspect the 6th gear works in the Tacoma because it lines up well somehow with the Atkinson cycle cruising rpm at some speed.

How well do you understand transmissions? Automakers aren't chasing false gains with more sophisticated transmissions - there is real benefit in gas savings. Modern cars with 8 speed automatics can cruise at 80 MPH while sitting around 1,600-1,800 RPMs. The 4Runner with a 5AT is around 2,300RPM at that speed, if I recall correctly. It's burning more gas than it would with a 6AT or 8AT. The Lexus 8AT unit is smaller, more compact and more efficient than the 6AT it replaced. You can complain about shifting behavior, but the gains are real.

 

[Big_Cuss]

Look man, I love Toyota as much of the rest of us, but this is straight up untrue and the examples are numerous. Toyota didn't become the most profitable auto maker by dumping nonstop R&D into every vehicle at every turn. They have a history of "set it and forget it" and letting products sit until they are basically inexcusable, and THEN finally redesigning them.



How well do you understand transmissions? Automakers aren't chasing false gains with more sophisticated transmissions - there is real benefit in gas savings. Modern cars with 8 speed automatics can cruise at 80 MPH while sitting around 1,600-1,800 RPMs. The 4Runner with a 5AT is around 2,300RPM at that speed, if I recall correctly. It's burning more gas than it would with a 6AT or 8AT. The Lexus 8AT unit is smaller, more compact and more efficient than the 6AT it replaced. You can complain about shifting behavior, but the gains are real.

Don't agree.

So let me get this straight -- in a free market economy, it's INEXCUSABLE how poor Toyota's investment is.... but that doesn't bear out in demand? Hmm, SUPER CURIOUS what is driving the demand, then.

Oh f**kin' wait a minute! Perhaps the short play is gimmick R&D, and the long play is dependability. And somehow Toyota has this figured out, and limits gimmicks for the sake of mutual benefit - better ROI for both themselves, and the customer.

And gee let's see. What kind of CAFE test runs at 80mph? I'm fairly certain that if you ask any engineer, Toyota or otherwise, you'll do better in a 5AT at 70mph than a 6AT at 80mph, where efficient falls off dramatically as a result of increased drag.

The AT gear rat race is pretty much strictly about bragging rights against other carmakers in sales brochures, and optimizing CAFE fleet mpg, based on the tests they use. And sure it will help you speed above the legal limit at 0.5 mpg better... but you'll add 10x the shifts over the years, from the engine straining between dropping to 5th anytime you hit a 1 degree incline, and back to 6th when it flattens again. And all those shifts will necessitate an AT rebuild much sooner than with way fewer shifts from just one gear less and slightly higher revving in each gear (especially if the engine torque curve is not optimized for low-rev, flat torque.

Mazda stopped at 6AT for their super-efficient SkyActiv engines. But they'd arbitrarily set the ratio based on close-ratio 6MTs, where shifting was user-performed shifting around the track was valued for constant optimization. But having had a 6MT Miata -- what a freakin pain.
So I can agree a 6AT in theory is fine. But a 5AT, designed for a use-case that involves probably the most incredible longevity/durability standards in the industry, 2nd only to the Toyota Land Cruiser, and in a vehicle that's not really supposed to be driven over 75mph (regardless of limit, it's just a truck designed for offroading, and average to slow highway travel), it's totally fine as is. And adding 1 gear, without touching the final drive ratios at both axles, the gear spread of any other gears, etc... is the basic reason they haven't just "unlocked" the 6th gear.

I suspect the 6th gen will just go to 8AT, but with a total gear spread, and a torque curve of the engine tuned to work really well with that spread. And possibly hybrid torque-fill.

So we'll see the 8AT of your dreams then! And not a minute sooner!

 

[kevwolford]

In general, the more speeds the better. The wider the gear ratios the better. There are trade offs. The ultimate is a CVT but those have some torque handling capability issues and some consumers hate them because the engine tends to droan at one speed. The ones which act like 6-8 speed automatics are quite nice. Torque capacity is getting better all the time. The first ones that came out could only handle 125 ft lbs and were really short lived. Now they can do a 250-300 ft lbs and are quite durable.

I think they will keep the 5 speed until they change the entire drivetrain. To just change a transmission while keeping the old port injected engine doesn’t make any economic sense. The 5 speed is silly durable and quite under stressed in the 4runner.

I would guess toyota makes about 15-25,000 per 4runner. This is huge in an industry where they fight for fractions of pennies. (I just lost that battle over 6-8 cents per part).

Yes I would love more power and better fuel economy and that will come with the next generation.l(fuel economy for sure) If I was really into either I would get a SRT Cherokee (which is a blast to drive) or a Subaru.

IMHO 8 speeds seems to be the sweet spot. You can do that with 3 planitaries (or two and lockup converters) and have a 5 or even 6 to 1 ratio spread. You can package that in a front drive if you really want to.
I don’t know much about the new ford/gm 10 speeds.

​

 

[Gecko]

Don't agree.

So let me get this straight -- in a free market economy, it's INEXCUSABLE how poor Toyota's investment is.... but that doesn't bear out in demand? Hmm, SUPER CURIOUS what is driving the demand, then.

Oh f**kin' wait a minute! Perhaps the short play is gimmick R&D, and the long play is dependability. And somehow Toyota has this figured out, and limits gimmicks for the sake of mutual benefit - better ROI for both themselves, and the customer.

And gee let's see. What kind of CAFE test runs at 80mph? I'm fairly certain that if you ask any engineer, Toyota or otherwise, you'll do better in a 5AT at 70mph than a 6AT at 80mph, where efficient falls off dramatically as a result of increased drag.

The AT gear rat race is pretty much strictly about bragging rights against other carmakers in sales brochures, and optimizing CAFE fleet mpg, based on the tests they use. And sure it will help you speed above the legal limit at 0.5 mpg better... but you'll add 10x the shifts over the years, from the engine straining between dropping to 5th anytime you hit a 1 degree incline, and back to 6th when it flattens again. And all those shifts will necessitate an AT rebuild much sooner than with way fewer shifts from just one gear less and slightly higher revving in each gear (especially if the engine torque curve is not optimized for low-rev, flat torque.

Mazda stopped at 6AT for their super-efficient SkyActiv engines. But they'd arbitrarily set the ratio based on close-ratio 6MTs, where shifting was user-performed shifting around the track was valued for constant optimization. But having had a 6MT Miata -- what a freakin pain.
So I can agree a 6AT in theory is fine. But a 5AT, designed for a use-case that involves probably the most incredible longevity/durability standards in the industry, 2nd only to the Toyota Land Cruiser, and in a vehicle that's not really supposed to be driven over 75mph (regardless of limit, it's just a truck designed for offroading, and average to slow highway travel), it's totally fine as is. And adding 1 gear, without touching the final drive ratios at both axles, the gear spread of any other gears, etc... is the basic reason they haven't just "unlocked" the 6th gear.

I suspect the 6th gen will just go to 8AT, but with a total gear spread, and a torque curve of the engine tuned to work really well with that spread. And possibly hybrid torque-fill.

So we'll see the 8AT of your dreams then! And not a minute sooner!

You're welcome to disagree with me, but...

- Before TNGA, the Rav4, Camry, Avalon, ES, NX, RX, Highlander and Sienna were all riding on platforms from the mid 90s. Looking at that list, some still are.
- The Tundra is 13 years old
- The Sequoia, Land Cruiser and LX 570 are 12 years old
- The Tacoma is riding on a basic architecture from 2005
- The 4Runner is now 10 years old and the platform dates to 2003
- The GX is now 10 years old
- The Lexus LS sat unchanged for 10 years
- Short of the new TT V6, ToMoCo's entire range of V6s and V8s is thirsty, outdated and inefficient
- Toyota is the last major OEM to implement Apple CarPlay and Android Auto

... so, yeah, they are reliable, but being "stubbornly cheap" is part of what has allowed Toyota to rake in so much cash. I'm not mad - it works for them. Until the TNGA era, it's obvious that Toyota was resting on their laurels hoping that perceived reliability would carry them through - and it did. Now they're getting their act together with top tier tech, platforms and engines, but the SUV lineup is the last to receive those blessings and they're all woefully out of date in the meantime.

Regarding transmissions, when you compare apples to apples, whether it's 80 MPH or 70 MPH or 60 MPH, more gears allows any car to drive along at a lower RPM than a vehicle with less gears. It's just the reality of engineering. Feel free to believe what you want. Lexus has been building 8ATs since 2006 and I have yet to hear about an LS 460 getting its transmission rebuilt any more often than any other Lexus. The Lexus 8AT is now the same one that Toyota uses - it's reliable, it's capable, and it's bulletproof. Lexus is now onto 10ATs. The other vehicle built to Land Cruiser-like standards is the Lexus LS, and it's been one of Toyota's flagship vehicles since it was launched - 8AT, hybrid tech, 10AT, twin turbos, the list goes on. I have faith in the transmissions Toyota is building regardless of the number of gears, so I have no worries about rebuilds or longevity.

 

[Jetboy]

My gut says there's likely some more complex reason the 5th gen doesn't get the sixth gear as standard.

Whether it's some nvh factor that's deemed acceptable in a more of a work vehicke (Tacoma), the power range not playing nice with the gear spread as much, the practicality of having a set final drive ratio and tons of repair parts available in inventory (vs having to change it and build inventory so close to the end of the 5th gen's run) to possibly even barely any ending change to mpg. Something.

Toyota is a lot of things, but purely being stubborn for cost/cheapskates is not one of them. They defined the practice of continuous improvement, and make tons of tiny iterative changes in part runs that end up benefitting reliability. I also suspect they've made subtle tuning improvements to the 4.0L through the years.

Gears are gears. In the real world fewer is often better. Makers just add more for CAFE tests. So unless all 6 gear ratios are optimized, adding only one more inside the spread is useless. In fact I suspect the 6th gear works in the Tacoma because it lines up well somehow with the Atkinson cycle cruising rpm at some speed.

It's not a cost based thing for the transmission. The cost to manufacture either one is within $10. It's only 4 total parts in the gear system and two additional solenoids. At the production levels they're running the cost is negligible. So it has to be the axle gearing or engine power or something like that.

I think it's engine power/diff ratio problem that is the culprit. I haven't done this math before. The gear ratios are all the same except the extra OD. Net drive ratio in 5th gear is 2.67. With 4.56 diffs and 6th gear .586 ratio the net drive ratio in 6th is 2.67. It would be a perfect match IMO to have the 6AT and 4.56 diffs. You could have all of the drive ability of the current 5AT with 4.56 diffs and then add the option of 6th gear for light load highway cruising. Either the rear axle can't take the torque of 4.56 gears and a v6 or toyota can't produce a 4.56 front diff ratio that's strong enough, or something like that seems to be the case. Otherwise the 6AT should be an easy upgrade.

As far as torque goes - the v6 has 278 ft lbs. The 4.6 V8 has 329. But if the GX has 3.91 gears the effective torque on the axle is 1286 ft/lb. The v6 with 4.56 diffs is 1267. So it would be really comparable there. I'm running out of excuses other than being cheap or withholding an extra gear for the sake of keeping it a lower tier product.

 

[Jetboy]

In general, the more speeds the better. The wider the gear ratios the better. There are trade offs. The ultimate is a CVT but those have some torque handling capability issues and some consumers hate them because the engine tends to droan at one speed. The ones which act like 6-8 speed automatics are quite nice. Torque capacity is getting better all the time. The first ones that came out could only handle 125 ft lbs and were really short lived. Now they can do a 250-300 ft lbs and are quite durable.

I think they will keep the 5 speed until they change the entire drivetrain. To just change a transmission while keeping the old port injected engine doesn’t make any economic sense. The 5 speed is silly durable and quite under stressed in the 4runner.

I would guess toyota makes about 15-25,000 per 4runner. This is huge in an industry where they fight for fractions of pennies. (I just lost that battle over 6-8 cents per part).

Yes I would love more power and better fuel economy and that will come with the next generation.l(fuel economy for sure) If I was really into either I would get a SRT Cherokee (which is a blast to drive) or a Subaru.

IMHO 8 speeds seems to be the sweet spot. You can do that with 3 planitaries (or two and lockup converters) and have a 5 or even 6 to 1 ratio spread. You can package that in a front drive if you really want to.
I don’t know much about the new ford/gm 10 speeds.

​

The problem with this is that the 5 speed and the 6 speed are the same transmission. It's not a new transmission. It's the same one with 4 extra parts inside and a different solenoid body (which Toyota already produces in large quantities). It's just a matter of making the very minor adjustment to allow us to use the 6th gear that's already inside the transmission. The big change would be differential ratios moving from 3.73 to 4.56 or 4.30.

I agree that the 8 speed is a better option if we ever get it. Toyota's 8AT has a very deep 4.8:1 first gear. An 8th gear is almost the same as the current 5AT. With 3.73 diffs it would be equivalent to having 5.08:1 differentials with the current transmission. It would probably drive very similar to the 6AT with 4.56 diffs. Either one would be a nice performance bump over the current setup.

 

[Orc]

Go drive the 10 speeds that are available now. They gear hunt all the time. I'm happy with the 5 speed performance, the 4Runner gets poor gas mileage for what it is but the end savings is the potential durability.

Regardless of how good the 6th gen will be it's going to have electric power steering and a more useless gears as well as a Atkinson cycle possibly a hybrid.

Honda just scrapped the Swindon England civic plant to focus on EVs.

 

[Kohai]

I have a 4 dr sedan (brand to be unmentioned as Big Cuss is allergic to it) that has an 8 speed in a 4 cyl with a turbo. It gets about 35 mpg on the freeway (I average about 24 mpg with my city driving). 0-60 is about 5.8 sec. I don't know if that is the typical.

Here in Utah, we have stretches of freeway with a speed limit of 80 mph. More gears are nicer.

 

[ForRun]

Go drive the 10 speeds that are available now. They gear hunt all the time.

You should drive the f150 10 speed before you make that statement, it’s flawless. I avg 20 mpg with 35”tires driving moderately or 15 hammering on it. Before you think I’m trolling I’m so hooked on a 4Runner right now! I need something smaller as can’t hardly park anywhere in the city. It’s just to big




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Orc]

Those quad cab trucks are too much. But in the city I would go for something quick and nimble.

 

[docsnavely]

Do all 2019 TRD Pro's come with the rear sliding deck?

My local dealer is advising me they all come with it, but it can be removed but it doesn't make the trunk area flat. I see in the brochure that it is an Option, but when i go to build it online it is already included. Is that due to my location or something? I'm in Oklahoma.

Thanks!

It’s port installed. I got my 2018 TRDP via a wait list. Once my turn was up for the next cavalry blue issued to my dealer, I was notified by them that the VIN had been created and I was asked what extras I wanted (mats, sliding tray, exhaust tip, iPhone charging cables, etc.). I only asked for the back cargo floor mat since I use Husky mats everywhere else. Didn’t want any of their overpriced extras. Dealer finalized the order and 6 weeks later it arrived from the port. With nothing extra other than my cargo mat.

Don’t let them tell you anything is a mandatory add on. The dealers get a cut of port extras. That’s why one of the dealers near me adds that stupidly obnoxious rear 3rd brake light flasher to every car they get from the port. It’s an extra $250 they can charge for what is likely a $3 diode.

To answer your leveling question, yes, without the tray or a 3rd row (not available on pro), the cargo area is slightly recessed from the back seats when folded down. About 1.5 inches I think.

 

[jicko]

I also really like the looks of the new rack. I wonder if we can fit it onto the 4runner. I'd also be curious to see the load capacity for it - roof top tent??

Current 4Runner (non Pro) roof rail have absolutely no problem for RTT mounting as long as you mount directly onto the rails (not the flimsy crossbars).

RE: mounting Sequoia's rack onto 4R? Nah, they have very different roof dimensions