2022 Tundra Gets Independent Rear Suspension and 416hp/442ft lbs V6TT Lexus Engine

[rdruss]

And most of those model variants Toyota refuses to sell here, even those which would be crash and safety compliant in the US in favor of crossover blobmobiles.

I swear I don't know how Toyota sells so many cars when just about every one of their models is awful compared to the competition.

Awful? In what way(s)?

 

[Gamma Ray]

Well, I meant worldwide. I think the Land Cruiser name is very well-recognized in Africa, Australia, the Middle East, etc., as a very desirable and reliable Toyota.

Two out of those three are, well, yeah...

I would love to mount flamethrowers to my 4Runner, though!

 

[Jetboy]

And most of those model variants Toyota refuses to sell here, even those which would be crash and safety compliant in the US in favor of crossover blobmobiles.

I swear I don't know how Toyota sells so many cars when just about every one of their models is awful compared to the competition.

Wasn't that long ago that a 4runner was faster than the fastest model cayenne. What happened to Toyota? I guess a rav4 prime is faster than the slowest cayenne still... So I guess there's that.

 

[ElectroBoy]

IRS has parts called control arms. They don't look like tubular links. The tundra might move to IRS. The test mules do not have IRS.

Looks like that test mule lost a lug nut.

 

[thennen]

Awful? In what way(s)?

Same question here.

 

[LandCruiser]

Awful? In what way(s)?

I can't think of a single vehicle Toyota makes (which isn't a niche vehicle like the 4Runner) which is a segment leader or innovator.

Their crossovers aren't the best, their sedans aren't the best, they still bother to make the 86 and Supra that no one cares about, the Sequoia and Tundra are literal 1990s GM clones.

If you told me to buy a Toyota that doesn't suck, I'd tell you to get a 4Runner or TLC--maybe a Tacoma, but the 3rd gen was a step back from the 2nd.

I've had lots of 'yotas, both from the 4Runner and TLC platform, and those have been solid offerings, now Toyota is either ruining them killing them off in the US.

 

[Jetboy]

Looks like that test mule lost a lug nut.

It's the new 5 1/2 lug bolt pattern. 6 lugs, 5 nuts. Being conservative, Toyota didn't want to go all the way to a 6 lug on the first try.

 

[Jetboy]

The biggest issue I see is the freqency of updates. Historically almost all toyota models were on 7 year cycles with a year 3 or 4 facelift. The Tundra was competitive in 2007. But it's still a 2007 vehicle in 2020. It's just too long when everyone else has had multiple generation updates. The 4Runner in 2010 was closer to a refresh than a real full new model. And now we're going out to 2024 on a 2003 platform. And Toyota could have given us newer engines and transmissions in the same platform without a new generation. But it didn't. I couldn't believe that the "new" lexus IS came out with the same engine I had in mine in 2007. I mean - how many "generations" can you squeeze out of drive train before it's done?

I think the new Tundra will be either class leading or very close. Everything looks like it'll be a direct competitor with the new F150. But if Toyota then does nothing for another 15 years to it - it'll be wildly out of date again. My bet is that it was delayed a year because it was initially going to be a NA 3.5 hybrid and it sucked so they had to go back and re-design it with the 3.5TT hybrid to be competitive with the F150.

And it's not for lack of a parts bin full of great stuff. Toyota just won't get off its ass an do anything with the parts in the bin. The 5.0L v8 should have been in the GX, 4R, and the Tacoma 10 years ago. If the Tacoma and 4R were offered with that engine - you wouldn't hear a whisper of complaint about it not keeping up with the competition. Why it's not at least in the GX I have no idea. The drive train in the IS/GS would be fantastic for a midsize crossover. It's far better than what is in the RX. And with a TTv6 in front, Lexus could have a very competitive sporty midsize SUV to compete with the Cayenne. But instead they're still running the same engine they have for about 20 years. It's fine. But it's falling behind the competition.

And where are the BEVs? Toyota was the ev tech leader for a generation in hybrids. Now?? they make a very limited production Rav4 Prime - which IMO is the only interesting new technology in a Toyota vehicle right now. And they only make 5k units? How is there not a high performance EV version of the LC500?

 

[rdruss]

I can't think of a single vehicle Toyota makes (which isn't a niche vehicle like the 4Runner) which is a segment leader or innovator.

Their crossovers aren't the best, their sedans aren't the best, they still bother to make the 86 and Supra that no one cares about, the Sequoia and Tundra are literal 1990s GM clones.

If you told me to buy a Toyota that doesn't suck, I'd tell you to get a 4Runner or TLC--maybe a Tacoma, but the 3rd gen was a step back from the 2nd.

I've had lots of 'yotas, both from the 4Runner and TLC platform, and those have been solid offerings, now Toyota is either ruining them killing them off in the US.

Nothing you say makes them "awful". You may not be impressed with most, or all, of Toyota's offerings but that doesn't make them "awful". Maybe you need to try some of the comp for awhile and then see what you think.

 

[LandCruiser]

The biggest issue I see is the freqency of updates. Historically almost all toyota models were on 7 year cycles with a year 3 or 4 facelift. The Tundra was competitive in 2007. But it's still a 2007 vehicle in 2020. It's just too long when everyone else has had multiple generation updates. The 4Runner in 2010 was closer to a refresh than a real full new model. And now we're going out to 2024 on a 2003 platform. And Toyota could have given us newer engines and transmissions in the same platform without a new generation. But it didn't. I couldn't believe that the "new" lexus IS came out with the same engine I had in mine in 2007. I mean - how many "generations" can you squeeze out of drive train before it's done?

I think the new Tundra will be either class leading or very close. Everything looks like it'll be a direct competitor with the new F150. But if Toyota then does nothing for another 15 years to it - it'll be wildly out of date again. My bet is that it was delayed a year because it was initially going to be a NA 3.5 hybrid and it sucked so they had to go back and re-design it with the 3.5TT hybrid to be competitive with the F150.

And it's not for lack of a parts bin full of great stuff. Toyota just won't get off its ass an do anything with the parts in the bin. The 5.0L v8 should have been in the GX, 4R, and the Tacoma 10 years ago. If the Tacoma and 4R were offered with that engine - you wouldn't hear a whisper of complaint about it not keeping up with the competition. Why it's not at least in the GX I have no idea. The drive train in the IS/GS would be fantastic for a midsize crossover. It's far better than what is in the RX. And with a TTv6 in front, Lexus could have a very competitive sporty midsize SUV to compete with the Cayenne. But instead they're still running the same engine they have for about 20 years. It's fine. But it's falling behind the competition.

And where are the BEVs? Toyota was the ev tech leader for a generation in hybrids. Now?? they make a very limited production Rav4 Prime - which IMO is the only interesting new technology in a Toyota vehicle right now. And they only make 5k units? How is there not a high performance EV version of the LC500?

Toyota always cites "declining interest," as the reason they kill off a vehicle.

There's "declining interest" in the FJ Cruiser after years of no updates, clearly people have no interest in a cheap, easy to mod 4x4 despite the massive success of the Wrangler and huge buzz of the Bronco.

There's "declining interest" in the 4Runner which has a platform, engine, and transmission first seen together in the 2003 4th gen model and still continues to sell remarkably well despite no updates to the drivetrain--even though Toyota has the engines and transmissions and is wasting them on the GX and could have easily dropped them in during its long run that started in 2010.

There's "no interest" in the GX, which is an ugly ass version of a hugely successful international vehicle that has just seen a huge update that isn't coming to the US model. Obviously you'd think that maybe since all the parts and R&D are there they'd somehow integrate the new Prado and 4Runner, but with all the talk of hybrids, shit engines, and killing the Land Cruiser and dragging the 4Runner past 2022 this doesn't seem likely.

Toyota sucks so hard in the US people import beat to shit 25 year old trucks from all over the third world to get good stuff not sold here.

 

[LandCruiser]

Nothing you say makes them "awful". You may not be impressed with most, or all, of Toyota's offerings but that doesn't make them "awful". Maybe you need to try some of the comp for awhile and then see what you think.

Mazda is better, Honda is better, Subaru is better.

Toyota and Nissan are rental grade trash.

 

[Gamma Ray]

The 4Runner in 2010 was closer to a refresh than a real full new model. And now we're going out to 2024 on a 2003 platform.

I like this.

And Toyota could have given us newer engines and transmissions in the same platform without a new generation. But it didn't. I couldn't believe that the "new" lexus IS came out with the same engine I had in mine in 2007. I mean - how many "generations" can you squeeze out of drive train before it's done?

The engine and drivetrain in the 4Runner is as close to bulletproof as it gets while also getting the job done. That's why I say I like this.

 

[Gamma Ray]

There's "declining interest" in the 4Runner which has a platform, engine, and transmission first seen together in the 2003 4th gen model and still continues to sell remarkably well despite no updates to the drivetrain--even though Toyota has the engines and transmissions and is wasting them on the GX and could have easily dropped them in during its long run that started in 2010.

What declining interest? The 4Runner's been on a spectacular upward trajectory since the introduction of the 5th gen.

Toyota 4Runner Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure

 

[LandCruiser]

I like this.



The engine and drivetrain in the 4Runner is as close to bulletproof as it gets while also getting the job done. That's why I say I like this.

So are the V8 and 8AT in the Land Cruiser.

So are the V8 and 6AT in the GX.

At this point there is no reason for the weak ass engine or old ass transmission.

 

[Gamma Ray]

So are the V8 and 8AT in the Land Cruiser.

So are the V8 and 6AT in the GX.

At this point there is no reason for the weak ass engine or old ass transmission.

Okay, then there are less things to go wrong in the 4Runner. Nice!

 

[Jetboy]

Okay, then there are less things to go wrong in the 4Runner. Nice!

The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[LandCruiser]

The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I wouldn't buy the shitty Supra, but I'd definitely get the GR Yaris, that thing looks awesome.

Of course yet ANOTHER bad ass car not available in the US.

 

[Gamma Ray]

The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Well, it's old, and some of us like that. Yeah, I know that's not the greatest argument, but I still like it!

And LOL Yaris with a teensy 3 cylinder with that much horsepower. They've got to be turboing the heck out of that thing. How long is it really going to last? I know this is Toyota, but still. There are limits.

 

[Gamma Ray]

I wouldn't buy the shitty Supra, but I'd definitely get the GR Yaris, that thing looks awesome.

Of course yet ANOTHER bad ass car not available in the US.

The GR Four Yaris looks pretty cool. I wonder how many of them are going to survive the 25 year import cutoff with their tremendously turboed teensy three bangers, though.

 

[Packpride85]

What we're seeing starting to happen is likely the last generation of non-hybrid/electric new powertrain development. With most manufacturers planning to produce a majority electric/hybrid vehicles in the next 10 years, its not cost effective to design new V6 or V8 NA powertrains anymore.