30K maintenance, seems outrageous

[rigtec]

Not that I am disagreeing with you, but I haven't heard of many dealerships giving techs bonuses. At least not in my area. Our dealership is owned by Autonation and all our service writers are on commission as well as pressured to sell these XX,000mi service packages left and right.

Hi BlackWorksInc,

glad you stopped by! NJ, for the most part, is very competitive wrt generating sales, quality workmanship, and prestige. There's nothing that they won't do to generate a buck; even resorting to using "Scare tactics" on women who venture to show up at the shop by themselves (w/o their husbands), only to be preyed upon by techs and service mgrs who will explain why they 'must replace those brakes'... "RIGHT NOW!" I don't mean to imply that most dealerships are buying into these unethical practices, just that when you see things like what happened to the OP, you know that it's "ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS"; without question!

I personally try not to sell anything I wouldn't do on my own vehicle in regards to preventative maintenance and repairs. But the OPs list is ridiculous and feels inline from what I see a lot of dealerships moving towards.

That's a sad reality but it's true!

The main reason that I left the automobile repair industry was because of this mentality that the invoice is our primary goal... not to take care of what the customer is concerned about or their reason for bringing the car in! I have been told (during a motivation meeting at work)... "DO NOT LET ANY CAR COME IN AND LEAVE W/O SELLING THEM SOMETHING!" So if by chance a 'WOMAN' comes in with a coupon for a $9.95 lube, oil and filter, don't let her walk out that door w/o selling her something; "We don't make money on that oil change, we lose money there! You have to sell that customer whatever you can, however you can... PERIOD!" "Additionally... every car with over 15,000 miles on it needs something e.g., belts, shocks, alignment, etc!"

You know BWI, like yourself, I'm not a 'Parts changer'; I'm a troubleshooter (all day long), that's what we do! But see, the industry was changing at that time (early to mid 80's), and so I was faced with a decision... either ignore my own conscience and keep my job, or find another line of work so I could still look myself in the mirror and have peace.

"I've been in the "Comm'l hvac" industry (Steamfitters union 'Journeyman') ever since; 1987 'till now and I never looked back! So I understand what you mean when you say...

"I personally try not to sell anything I wouldn't do on my own vehicle in regards to preventative maintenance and repairs."

That (unfortunately) is the primary reason that I left the auto industry. Lucky for me, I had an "Auto electrical" and "Auto air conditioning" specialty so I just used those strong points to pick-up the air conditioning trade; which is mostly (80%) electrical trouble shooting! Again, thanks for you POV; it's always refreshing!

Greg, cheers

 

[Jaan]

...There's nothing that they won't do to generate a buck; even resorting to using "Scare tactics" on women who venture to show up at the shop by themselves (w/o their husbands), only to be preyed upon by techs and service mgrs who will explain why they 'must replace those brakes'... "RIGHT NOW!"...

That's EXACTLY what a local Toyota dealer did to my friend Kim with her year and a half year old minivan. They had her in tears, literally, telling her her kids were going to die. Her ex husband got involved and almost ripped them a new hole...they ended up changing her brakes out for free.

 

[Stifler]

I think I paid like $50 for my 30k service. For $1100 there better be a lift installed when I pick it up

 

[NoDak]

well at least my dealer, they will walk your air/cabin filter to you physically to verify and then ask you if you want to replace it. sometimes I say yes, other times, I say no, then go pick one up at a parts store and replace it myself.

just depends on if its +50F or -20F outside.

 

[Jernik]

They're not called "STEALerships" for no reason!

The worst I've seen so far was with my wife's Infiniti. Like Toyota, they have a 2 year "free service" deal with oil changes every 3,750 miles, so it was in for an oil change around 7,500 miles. A week later we receive this notice in the mail from Infiniti stating at our last service the tires were shown to be extremely worn and recommended replacing them. At 7,500 gentle to average driven miles... so I went out and looked at them, and they look nearly new. I wonder how many people fall for this scam?

When she was in around 11K, they gave the wife a list recommending their 12K service, which cost $400 and was chock full of "inspections" and little else other than air/cabin filter replacements. The power steering flush/refill would be an extra $130. I told her to tell them "no", I'll do all of that myself for well under $100.

I feel sorry for all the people that don't know any better. Caveat emptor!

 

[Mooney]

what in the world is "install ethanol treatment" smh

How about:
"upgrade to engine performance restoration service (59.95) " :wtf:

 

[rookhoe]

In my opinion, most of the things that the dealer charges for can be done at home, obviously cheaper too. Just research how to do things and then take your time.

I was once quoted $550 for a 60k service on my Evo. I think that was my stopping point.

 

[rigtec]

That's EXACTLY what a local Toyota dealer did to my friend Kim with her year and a half year old minivan. They had her in tears, literally, telling her her kids were going to die. Her ex husband got involved and almost ripped them a new hole...they ended up changing her brakes out for free.

Hi Jaan,

So glad that you shared that (all to often, but common) story about how your friend was treated. I 'can' believe that they said that to her! And I've seen some of those service mgrs leave their comfy little offices and "Storm" into the bay area screaming the words... "Do you actually let your kids ride in this thing... Oh my god!!!" So in a panic, the only question that the lady would ask was... "Can you do all that today?"

That's why I could no longer work in that industry, because to do nothing about that was just like being the one doing it; I couldn't receive another dime of filthy money from them, knowing how it was being generated!

There was an incident at a toyota dealership (where I bought my 4Runner) when my wife went there, 'coupon in hand' and wanted an oil change (she went by herself at the time). When she returned I asked her how things went w/her oil change and she proceeded to show me a bill for $470 dollars. Naturally I SCREAMED... FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS???? for an oil change? She then showed me her invoice. I looked at the list of items; which was only new rear brakes and windshield wipers along w/ the oil change. The bill listed... "turned rotors" as part of the labor cost which could take an extra hour to do. I walked out to the car and looked at the rotors and saw that they weren't even done.

Well, that's all it took! I said to her... "LET'S GO!" Mind you that this was recently, long after I had left the industry. We pulled into the shop as the overhead door opened up. I got out and went into the reception area; trying to keep my cool! I asked to see the service mgr. When he came over I asked him to come w/ me; my wife was still in the Camery. I showed him the bill, highlighted where it said, "turned rotors". I told him who I was and revealed that I was a mechanic. I asked him if those rotors were turned.

Being careful how he answered me, he admitted that they weren't. I said... Good! Where's the mechanic who worked on this car; "I'd like to see him". He called for the mechanic to come to the service intake area. When he got there, I introduced myself and asked him if he had worked on this car and he said... 'Yes'; "guess he thought that there was some kind of an award being given... he was still smiling at that point". I asked him if he had turned those rotors, pointing at them with a flashlight; you could clearly see them right through the mag style wheels. He answered... "Yes I did"(bursting with pride)! I slowly turned towards the service manager, studying the subtle details of his expression.

I turned back to the mechanic and asked... "Do you see your bosses face?" Pausing... I instructed, "LOOK AT HIM!" He's embarrassed because of you, and he can't even speak!! At that point, I dismissed him; I couldn't take any more and was totally disgusted. The mechanic, somewhat humiliated, walked away!

After going into the service mgr's office, he apologized to me 'vehemently'! He offered to take the labor charges off of the bill; which amounted to about $200 dollars, to which I responded... "Okay". He offered his sincere apology once again, making sure that all was forgiven. We shook hands and I left. Needless to say: I became my wife's HERO "for the rest of that day". :kiss:

The moral of this story... "Buyer beware"! :first:

rigtec, cheers!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I 100% agree with you [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION] some of the sales practices these places use are appalling!

I don't agree with needlessly scaring customers, I think its a bad practice. That being said, I will be critical if a customer comes in with 1mm on the pads, cords showing on the tires, radiator empty, ect. because I am trying to impart the seriousness of the issue and that could sometimes appear like "scaring the customer." But to be honest, if they ask me I'm going to tell them, "I wouldn't feel safe with my family in that vehicle in its current condition."

My job is to perform repairs and report the health of the vehicle, sometimes that means giving bad news and having to smack customer's upside the head (figuratively, though I'll be honest some customers I'm willing to make it literally ) about how badly they maintain their vehicles.

The problem is the industry and the customers, both have trained each other to be distrustful and manipulative to each other and it creates a reciprocating cycle. If the dealership is crooked the customers get screwed over and become distrustful. If the customers are distrustful and rude to a good dealership, it bitters the service staff towards that customer and they don't want to help them and are more likely to treat them poorly and take advantage of them. Either way everyone loses.

That's why I tell my service writers if people have questions or issues I am usually available to explain my diagnosis/suggestions for service. I just informed a Tundra owner last week during his normal prepaid service (which I lose money on doing since they pay crap labor on those Toyota Service plans ) that his 35" LT Toyo Open Country MTs were wearing on the "over inflated" side because we go by Toyota's 46psi rating and he probably didn't need that. He asked to see me and I explained to him about doing a chalk test to find his ideal pressure to reference every time he has us service his vehicle and get prevent premature wear of his tires. I could have easily just said, "they're wearing quickly, you're on your own, its $350 a tire to fix in 15k (on his 10k old Tundra)" For me if I can't stand by the work I do with pride and confidence I have no business doing the work; which is why the dealership life is taxing...

 

[M1911]

what in the world is "install ethanol treatment" smh

Pour a bottle of ethanol treatment in the gas tank. A reach-around while doing it is extra charge.

 

[rigtec]

"...I will be critical if a customer comes in with 1mm on the pads, cords showing on the tires, radiator empty, ect. because I am trying to impart the seriousness of the issue and that could sometimes appear like "scaring the customer." But to be honest, if they ask me I'm going to tell them, "I wouldn't feel safe with my family in that vehicle in its current condition..."

Well that's the "Right Way" BW, but what you've described above aren't "Tactics". Tactics (to me) are devices used to create a scheme or to prepare an illusion to manipulate the customer into an action that will create for themselves profit! I mean sometimes as technicians, we need to escalate the communications between ourselves and our customers to help them to understand the urgency of their immediate situation. Now from what you have said to me here, you're the guy that I'd want working on my vehicle exclusively, you would be my mechanic because of your objective. And that's what we all want; just someone that we can trust to tell us exactly what we need, and to advise us if there is time before it becomes necessary... I mean you're like finding gold these days! Even in my industry (hvac), there have been times where someone's furnace or boiler was allowing dangerous levels of Co/Hc into the living space and I had to "Shut it down" (aka "RED TAGGING") to protect that family! NOTE: Co is carbon Monoxide or burned fuel, Hc is Hydro carbon or unburned fuel; Both are odorless and can be extremely toxic!

I don't like doing that because it leaves the customer no choice but to repair/replace their unit Right away, and no option to shop around to find the best price. But at that point I have a sworn responsibility to prevent harm (or even death) to these folks, and so like you, I'll sit down with the family and explain exactly what their equipment is doing wrong and then explain how we intend to rectify the problem. "Will money be made?" Absolutely! The sin (however), isn't in making money. The iniquity comes in with the manipulating and misleading of innocent people to exploitation! ...There is however, no better feeling than preventing a boiler fire or a system that will definitely cause asphyxiation to an entire family if I didn't go there; it just doesn't get better than that!

"I strive to be that Golden gem to someone!" rgds

rig, cheers!

 

[rigtec]

How about:
"upgrade to engine performance restoration service (59.95) " :wtf:

You know Mooney, There are (unfortunately), a great number of very good, God fearing folk that will pay $59.95 in an effort to maintain the vehicle that they feel very Blessed to have... "Sometimes I wish that I could prevent everyone from becoming so vulnerable to these "Professional Extortionists" called Mechanics, Contractors, Attorneys, Doctors, Used car salesman, False "faith healers" Fortune tellers...etc!" "How I wish I could do that..."

rig, rgds!

 

[nglayton]

they told me $1133.65

FYI, my dealer did the 30k for free under my Toyota care agreement.

Find a new dealer that hasn't lost all of his customers like this guy will. That is insane. All he needs is one sucker a week at that price and he can retire early.

 

[BrockT]

30,000 mile maintance

What was the $1100 breakdown?

 

[JCarp90]

My Toyota Care will cover the 30k maintenance - which I was told would be a big dea. I honestly don't see anything major here though. I was told also by the service manager that my Lifetime powertrain warranty will not be valid unless all services are performed either by Toyota, or another shop with receipt. They do not acknowledge any maintenance owners do themselves.

 

[Yotta]

what in the world is "install ethanol treatment" smh

Drinks for everyone are on you.

 

[1000MPH]

This is SOP for practically every dealer I've been in for the last 25 years. Where are these so-called honest dealers?

 

[DesertCanyons]

Have service done by others

Took my truck in yesterday and dealership told me that i need the 30k maintenance. I asked how much and they told me $1133.65 ... I believe i got all the items listed in the maintenange guide for normal 30k service.

- Replace engine oil / filter (59.95)
- reset oil reminger light (No Charge)
- rotate tires, inspect, etc.. (19.99)
- multi point inspection (No Charge)
- engine air filter (29.95) - told them i would do this
- cabin air filter (49.95) - told them i would do this
- test battery (No Charge)
- re-torque drive shaft bolts (No Charge)
- lubricate propeller shaft (No Charge)
- wheel alignment (99.95) - Told them No, i do not need
- lubricate drive shaft busshings (No Charge)
- install windshield washer solvent (No Charge)
- check floor mats (No Charge)
- add balance to tire rotation
- Synthetic rear differential fluid exchange service, limited slip extra (129.95) - Told them No
- front or rear differential fluid exchange service (129.95) - Told them No
- transfer case fluid exchange service (129.95) - Told them No
- premium engine oil and fuel conditioner (21.95)
- install ethanol treatment (20)
- perform fuel/air induction (159.99) - Told them No
- non hybrid - bg a/c quick tune - Told them No
- upgrade to engine performance restoration service (59.95)

As someone else pointed out, you can have these services performed by any shop and still keep your warranty. Yes, if you do them yourself the warranty may not be honored later. Maybe you can create a bogus mechanics invoice on your computer for the purposes of recording service. Make up a shop name for your own work and print out the invoice. Keep it real and actually do the service yourself, as recommended by Toyota. What do you think?

- lubricate propeller shaft (No Charge)Wow, you have a propeller? My car doesn't even float.

Some of the things you had done sound questionable to me. I don't know what we need an ethanol treatment for? But hey, I live in SoCal. What is an "upgrade to engine performance restoration service". Sounds like a fancy term for seeing if the engine meets spec. - things like clean plugs, compression, timing, emissions, etc. What are these two items?

The following items should all be done periodically and are not free. They require putting the car on a lift. You're paying for the fluids and labor.

- add balance to tire rotation (as needed to control uneven wear)
- Synthetic rear differential fluid exchange service, limited slip extra (129.95) - Told them No
- front or rear differential fluid exchange service (129.95) - Told them No
- transfer case fluid exchange service (129.95) - Told them No

I suggest you check the service manual and have these done as needed to keep the warranty valid.

My car is out of warranty but even if it were new - I try to work with my favorite local mechanic's shop, understand when service is needed and have this work done by the shop. I don't have all the tools and a lift needed to do some of this work. My time is better spent in the office but that's a choice I make. YMMV

Feedback welcome,
Dave

 

[LandCruiser]

Yeah, here in Coloraday, they're big on charging you 60 bucks to pour some crap additive into the engine.

I was pretty livid that the cheapest I could escape the 30k service was 150 bucks.

 

[96r50]

- lubricate propeller shaft (No Charge)Wow, you have a propeller? My car doesn't even float.

To clarify, "propeller shaft" is what Toyota calls the driveshafts that run from the transfer case to the front and rear differentials. These are the ones with a slip yoke in the middle and universal joints at each end and they do require regular lubrication with a grease gun.

They use "driveshaft" to describe the parts that run from the differential to the hub on independent suspension setups. These have a constant velocity (CV) joints at each end and no slip yoke. These are sealed units and only need attention if they are damaged or leaking.