3rd gen lifespan

Electric motors are tried and true for a hundred years. Its the energy storage(batteries mostly) and the infrastructure to supply electricity to cars that is the problem. As long as there are some very powerful people making billions of dollars selling you oil and gasoline, electric cars will take a while. As a pretty avid environmentalist my absolute love for my gas burning vehicles sometimes paints me into a corner
 
I don't know if i agree with this statement that much. How many ECU's does a 3rd gen have? Checking the FSM its actually 9 - Engine, trans, ABS / TRAC, Airbag, Cruise control, Immobilizer, Body control, back door, and Air conditioning.

Sure the 5th gens are probably more complex in their capabilities, but the 3rd gen is already more complex than your shade-tree mechanic is able to accomplish.

15 years from now who knows what kind of complexity will be out. We look at the 3rd gens now as "non complex" but think in 2025+ when a 5th gen will be peanuts compared to what is out - just like now.

I'm pumped for it.

I went to a wheeling event a number of years ago and it was cool because of the variety of rigs present, H1's, a couple Mogs, a Pinz, Jeeps of course, and a very cool VW Syncro on 29" tires, and a few Toys like mine. Anyway, the VW intrigued me as I had a 911 at the time, and I'd spied 930 axles in the front of this thing. ....anyway, the guy owned a Euro repair shop and we agreed that nobody is going to restore a 90's or 2000's BMW because of the complexity of CANBUS and other systems. There's a big difference in figuring out a Solex or Weber carb, vs an integrated system that shares physical wires.

I may yet stick an LS in mine. :bounce:
 
The biggest problem may be getting fuel at some point in the future. The ICE *could* go the way of the dinosaur....but I kinda doubt it will happen anytime soon.....especially if we were smart enough to build LFTR reactors and make Synfuel for ICEs. Of course, with LFTR technology.....all electric commuter vehicles could be a real possibility, so Synfuel would allow us to ramp up to zero emission vehicles for a large percentage of applications.
Im sorry but what is synfuel?

Synthetic fuel? We made from scratch?

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Electric motors are tried and true for a hundred years. Its the energy storage(batteries mostly) and the infrastructure to supply electricity to cars that is the problem. As long as there are some very powerful people making billions of dollars selling you oil and gasoline, electric cars will take a while. As a pretty avid environmentalist my absolute love for my gas burning vehicles sometimes paints me into a corner

I agree to a point. We're not ready to run yet.

Lithium is a limited resource and a very dirty mining and processing method, so I'm looking for what is next.

Tesla has made some very impressive vehicles, and Toyota even more so with the regen braking, and typical reliability of the Hilux into the Prius, shit, they're using them for taxi cabs and getting 300k+ from them.

I'm all for the progress, but I'm not Matt Damon and will profess to saving the planet by driving a hybrid.
 
Electric motors are tried and true for a hundred years. Its the energy storage(batteries mostly) and the infrastructure to supply electricity to cars that is the problem. As long as there are some very powerful people making billions of dollars selling you oil and gasoline, electric cars will take a while. As a pretty avid environmentalist my absolute love for my gas burning vehicles sometimes paints me into a corner
What are all these PhDs at Caltech and MIT doing?

Every year you hear about some crazy lithium ion breakthrough where some battery can hold 10 days of charge or something or can be recharged in 30 seconds etc etc but then you never see it end up commercialized.

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I was thinking about this the other day. Since i already have a new Tundra TRD Pro and the 4runner is just for fun/offroad/going places I don't want to bring a 6000lb 20' long truck its going to stay in the fleet a while.

The ONLY thing I think would change that is the Northeast's old friend. RUST.

However - think about this. Most of us bought a 15-17 year old vehicle. I paid $3300 for mine.

I imagine that around 2025 (only 9 years people) we can be looking for clean 5th gens that are going to be around the same price.
Good logic but you ever heard the saying "they dont build em like this anymore"..

Def applies to the T4R world as well.

Hell, no need to look further than all the issues with the first few years of the 4th gen.

5th gen major issues are likely still to be seen... Only minor stuff from what i gather so far.. But nonetheless one simply cant compare modern times to hardcore 90s toyota engineering.

Nothing is perfect, us 3rd genners suffer from bad lbjs and potential milkshakes but ill take the tradeoff as we have a damn near bulletproof drivetrain.

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FWIW I was more talking Rimac concept one electric rather than save the world by driving a hybrid electric but I like Earth too. Without the Earth, we'd have no gravity for traction.
 
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Hey I just joined, I'm not a 4Runner Genius. I'm a Forester guy historically but I was offered a trade for this guy.

2000 Toyota 4runner coilovers, MT tires etc! | used cars & trucks | Chatham-Kent | Kijiji

My car is modded and has only 150KM so it's a fair trade based on his valuation of 8K (his initial asking price)

But is 370,000 kms (225,000 miles) too high? It looks amazing but I keep seeing talk of rebuilding engines at the 250,000 mile mark.

I realistically can get probably 125,000 miles out of my car before rust claims it.

I'd like to see this vehicle get up to 650,000km is that realistic without needing another tran or engine swap?
 
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Btw its not a good argument that coal is burned for electricity when arguing against electric cars. There are many renewable forms of electricity generation.

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Coal is still our primary electricity source....google it. Renewable is up and coming, but probably won't be on the scale coal is for another decade.
 
Coal is still our primary electricity source....google it. Renewable is up and coming, but probably won't be on the scale coal is for another decade.

Most likely it will be far longer than a decade b/c we have a piss poor foreign and energy policy.

Thorium is almost as common as dust and is a byproduct of coal production, of which the US has an abundance.
 
Im sorry but what is synfuel?

Synthetic fuel? We made from scratch?

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It's synthetic fuel and there are two types.....the one that pollutes a little more than gasoline and another that burns cleaner at very close to the same efficiency.

Unfortunately, this topic can turn political very easily and since that's not allowed....I will simply say: the ONLY viable form of self sustaining renewable clean energy production for the US is nuclear...but not in the traditional sense.

Salt Thorium or LFTR or Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors AKA Molten Salt Reactors burn almost all of their waste (98%), have the longest half life of radioactive material, can actually produce the amount of electricity the US consumes commercially for industry and for personal use (unlike solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, etc), and most importantly run at atmospheric pressure and don't require water cooling as traditional reactors do thereby reducing the chances of a meltdown to nil. They are safe enough that I wouldn't even think twice about it being in my backyard.

Even with population growth estimates exponentially growing....there is enough Thorium available in the US to provide power generation for the next 500-1000 years.

As noted, the limit of electric power is currently the battery technology.....that, and the fact that the best batteries are currently made from Rare Earth Elements.....and China has cornered the market on those already (and are also now experimenting with LFTRs)....so if we got off oil, we'd be trading Middle Eastern Masters for Chinese ones.

Further, solar has massive drawbacks....from the massive amount of pollution to produce a single panel (not to mention wage and environmental arbitrage that occurs in the rest of the world to produce them) to the fact that once the temp gets over 77º, you start to lose efficiency and a panel will only produce about 1/2 the power once it gets over 100º. Then you can water cool the array.....but water WILL BE our most precious resource on Earth....so using it for cooling panels makes less sense....AND you need to filter it so that hard water isn't filming the panels and causing extra corrosion of the related array hardware.

This isn't to say we shouldn't explore other alternatives where they make sense....geothermal, tidal, wind and solar....but those options CANNOT meet all our energy needs, while LFTRs could.

The only reason we didn't continue to use LFTR technology (it was run for 4 years by Oak Ridge Laboratories in the late 60's) was that it didn't produce fissile material for our weapons program....LFTRs produce energy, not weapons grade Uranium/Plutonium....so the feds didn't pursue it as it wouldn't help build our nuclear arsenal.

Obviously, the energy question is deeply rooted in the rest of our economic and political issues....for every unit of GDP, there is a unit of energy behind it. Since we aren't allowed to discuss the politics of it....I'll simply say, do a little research on Molten Salt Reactors and Synfuel and it will become obvious that not a single candidate for office is talking about it b/c our government is not run in the best interest of its people, but at the behest of the special interests that contribute to their campaigns and insider schemes to enrich themselves. Our model is not Capitalism/Free Market....it is Corporatism.
 
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Mine's at 219,000... I just bought it from my brother for a work commute vehicle. He took immaculate care of the TR4. Seats and Dash still look new. The more I drive this thing, the more I love it. The thought behind the design of the interior impresses me... I'm totaling respecting this car, and I treat her gently... I had only planned on keeping it 2 years, but at this point who knows.. my commute is only about 8 miles each way...
 
I agree to a point. We're not ready to run yet.

Lithium is a limited resource and a very dirty mining and processing method, so I'm looking for what is next.

Tesla has made some very impressive vehicles, and Toyota even more so with the regen braking, and typical reliability of the Hilux into the Prius, shit, they're using them for taxi cabs and getting 300k+ from them.

I'm all for the progress, but I'm not Matt Damon and will profess to saving the planet by driving a hybrid.

Colorado researchers found a way to create cheap lithium from a byproduct when brewing beer!!!

I love how electric guys think it helps save planet earth when in fact that coal plant had to charge they're battery.
 
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Rust is the worst enemy for 90's cars. The cheapest and best way to insure a long term viability of a 3rd gen is to grease rust proof it every year IMO. The rest will be fixable for long, it just might involve investing some money.
 
Rust is the worst enemy for 90's cars. The cheapest and best way to insure a long term viability of a 3rd gen is to grease rust proof it every year IMO. The rest will be fixable for long, it just might involve investing some money.

Is that an Esprit in your avatar? I have an '08 Elise with the factory SC. :)
 
yes yes it is :) 1991 turbo SE.

Would love to try that SC elise, it's a very fast car I've heard, and I sat in one, typical lotus ''on the floor'' position that I love.


Awesome!!! Love Lotus!


0-60 in 4.2.....if you get a bigger BOE supercharger to get it up to 400hp, it drops down to 3.4 sec. 1/4 mile in something like 10.5 sec @ 124 mph.

As it is, it's an absolutely amazing car in terms of handling.....so much fun.

Enjoy yours....I'm envious. :)
 
My thoughts exactly!

I mean, assuming you like it, a newer car comes with complications the T4R doesn't have, computers and sensors that constantly go bad, this is one of the last cars that is still fairly mechanical. For reference, I had an AMG for 5 years, and it was a lovely car, but at a certain point the stuff that started failing, had nothing to do with the mechanical components, and everything to do with electrical and computer components. I replaced the ECU for 2500 bucks, the chip key system for another 1200, and random sensors for ~1000. In the meantime, the engine and transmission were solid as could be.

I sold it, bought my Carrera and never looked back.

So long as the frame and the body are solid, you just have to keep replacing rubber, suspension, brakes, and eventually overhaul the engine and transmission. I guess maybe do a repaint sometime if you feel like it? All of that together is cheaper than most new cars.

Also, the 4Runner is one of the only trucks that you aren't making a ton of sacrifices for the mechanical simplicity it has. Good A/C, decent interior, decent power (stock or supercharger). Need a backup camera, GPS or bluetooth? There's great aftermarket stuff to take care of you. There isn't much you need to do to keep it current.

If you've put 270k on it in 14 years, even if you rebuilt it tomorrow, it would probably take you that long to put on another 300k and then how old would you be?

So long as nothing catastrophic happens, I plan on having this car and my Carrera until the sun explodes.

The only thing I'd consider getting if my commute stays long, is a battery powered car, but the 4Runner would be my workhorse, and the Carrera would turn into a lightweight track rat.

I love my Runner. It does exactly what I need it to do. Yes it would be nice to have a backup camera, but visibility is fine so really, it would just be a gadget. I installed a new head unit and I have a GPS unit so I really don't need more than that. As far as I'm concerned, as long as I can get parts for it, it will stay in my driveway.
Back in June I got a new position at work so I now have a significant commute and I wasn't crazy about spending money on gas and putting unnecessary mileage on my 4R, so I bought a 2001 Celica. This Celica gets 550KM on a $40 tank of gas... with the difference in mileage, I'll have the Celi paid for in 3 yrs, and save wear and tear on my 4R! Both vehicles are a blast to drive in their realm.
 
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It's a keeper. It's a nice truck.

It's going to get much more difficult, quickly, to purchase products that aren't IOT (Internet of Things); products that use you more than you use them. Our T4R and 2011 Prius are both just smart enough and just stupid enough to be useful, pleasant devices that do our bidding and no one else's.

We've put essentially nothing into the T4R besides fuel and gear to go do stuff in the sticks and cities. Same thing with the Prius, although the inverter did just zot out under warranty. That was an eye opener. Suddenly, for no apparent reason, the car wouldn't budge... wouldn't take us to work. Got it fixed, would have cost $3500 if we had to pay. So, absolute full stop, no limping, hand over the bucks as the thing ages. We expect that the T4R is more limp-worthy, but we'll see. As several forum users have noted in this thread, the T4R is simple enough to manage ourselves. Hell, the Toyota technician just shrugged on the Prius inverter problem and said, "it's a replacement part, no fix." Yech. No good when you come back from a walk at Sunrise at Mt. Rainier and want to go home.

Our experience so far with the T4R leads us towards just keeping, maintaining, repairing, and using it until it becomes illegal (autopilot cars only, no human drivers), the parts supply runs out, or the fuel supply becomes too costly or too scarce.

I don't want another car, especially not a newer car.
 
It's a keeper. It's a nice truck.

It's going to get much more difficult, quickly, to purchase products that aren't IOT (Internet of Things); products that use you more than you use them. Our T4R and 2011 Prius are both just smart enough and just stupid enough to be useful, pleasant devices that do our bidding and no one else's.

We've put essentially nothing into the T4R besides fuel and gear to go do stuff in the sticks and cities. Same thing with the Prius, although the inverter did just zot out under warranty. That was an eye opener. Suddenly, for no apparent reason, the car wouldn't budge... wouldn't take us to work. Got it fixed, would have cost $3500 if we had to pay. So, absolute full stop, no limping, hand over the bucks as the thing ages. We expect that the T4R is more limp-worthy, but we'll see. As several forum users have noted in this thread, the T4R is simple enough to manage ourselves. Hell, the Toyota technician just shrugged on the Prius inverter problem and said, "it's a replacement part, no fix." Yech. No good when you come back from a walk at Sunrise at Mt. Rainier and want to go home.

Our experience so far with the T4R leads us towards just keeping, maintaining, repairing, and using it until it becomes illegal (autopilot cars only, no human drivers), the parts supply runs out, or the fuel supply becomes too costly or too scarce.

I don't want another car, especially not a newer car.
Your post scares me.

All future cars are basically little IoT slaves. I can see it now....

They all contribute random data to some big company data warehouse so we can get sold ads for crap on all the screens in an iot car while driving.

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