3rd gen to 2nd gen...downgrade?

[cantaloop]

Currently DDing a lifted '96 4runner, its a 4banger on 33s, auto trans, so of course its slow, but regardless i like it a lot.

But ive Been thinking about getting a v6 manual second gen, like a '94 or '95. Only real bad thing i hear about the 3vz is the head gasket. My logic is that if I spend less on an older 4runner, then i can use the leftover $$$ to build it the way I want instead of spending all my money on the car itself.

Is there anything else big to look out for on 2nd gens? I know theres a badass buyers guide for 3rd gens but I couldn't find anything similar in the 2nd gen section. Am i gonna regret the decision to give up my perfectly functional 3rd gen to build a 2nd gen? Any and all input is welcome


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[Bad_Vision]

Currently DDing a lifted '96 4runner, its a 4banger on 33s, auto trans, so of course its slow, but regardless i like it a lot.

But ive Been thinking about getting a v6 manual second gen, like a '94 or '95. Only real bad thing i hear about the 3vz is the head gasket. My logic is that if I spend less on an older 4runner, then i can use the leftover $$$ to build it the way I want instead of spending all my money on the car itself.

Is there anything else big to look out for on 2nd gens? I know theres a badass buyers guide for 3rd gens but I couldn't find anything similar in the 2nd gen section. Am i gonna regret the decision to give up my perfectly functional 3rd gen to build a 2nd gen? Any and all input is welcome


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Yes you will have regrets.
The third gen has a better interior better gas mileage better reliability better look.
I hate second gens my self, from the craptastic 3.slow engine to the bland body styling. Please do yourself a favor and just build up your 3rd gen.


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[KidVermicious]

Currently DDing a lifted '96 4runner, its a 4banger on 33s, auto trans, so of course its slow, but regardless i like it a lot.

But ive Been thinking about getting a v6 manual second gen, like a '94 or '95. Only real bad thing i hear about the 3vz is the head gasket. My logic is that if I spend less on an older 4runner, then i can use the leftover $$$ to build it the way I want instead of spending all my money on the car itself.

Is there anything else big to look out for on 2nd gens? I know theres a badass buyers guide for 3rd gens but I couldn't find anything similar in the 2nd gen section. Am i gonna regret the decision to give up my perfectly functional 3rd gen to build a 2nd gen? Any and all input is welcome


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I own a '99 3.4 auto, I cannot imagine how gutless the 2.7 must be with an auto.

Your 2.7l and the second gen's 3.0l are equivalent in HP rating. If you went to a second gen with a five speed, you'd have a net gain in available HP and might not take a huge MPG hit. It would be an older truck, probably a little shabbier inside, but if you don't care about that and you find the right second gen, I see no reason to think it'd be a bad switch.

The 3.0 has a terrible rep for blowing head gaskets, and it's pretty deserved IMO. If you're ready to put in the work if/when yours pops (fix it or swap in a 3.4l, either way), then go for it.

 

[fourwd1]

Forget the 2nd Gen, get a 4 cylinder 1st gen.
The only real 4Runner.

 

[HanginInUtah]

Yes you will have regrets.
The third gen has a better interior better gas mileage better reliability better look.
I hate second gens my self, from the craptastic 3.slow engine to the bland body styling. Please do yourself a favor and just build up your 3rd gen.

There are some of us that like our 2nd Gen's just fine. Yes, as Kid says, they have earned their rep with the heads. They are older and less refined than the 3rd Gen's, but I get compliments all the time on my interior, and it took only a few parts and a bunch of elbow grease to have a nice ride. Definitely go with a stick so you don't lose the HP. Without the auto you can run a lower thermostat, and the radiator is only cooling the engine, so it helps to reduce the chance of a head gasket problem (doesn't erase it, reduces it.)

The major problem I can see? 2nd Gen's don't have very many cool aftermarket toys. You've got to be able to fabricate your own stuff for the most part. That can be a good thing or bad, depending on your skills and imagination.

 

[Dropzone]

Only reason I have a 2nd gen is that I got it from a family member after another family member hosed the brake job. They had recently dumped $3500 into the engine and other components. I paid $400 for it. Pretty happy with the purchase. Transplanting the suspension, axles and dual cases from my 81 into the 94 since the early trucks are like Lego's.

That being said I wish i had a 3rd Gen, airbags would be nice.

 

[RonJR]

As said, the 3rd gen has more power, a longer wheelbase by 3", wider track, and more interior room. The 3rd gen will carry 4 adults comfortably; with the 2nd gen they'd best be small. 2nd gen has a fold-down tailgate which is awesome for offroad camping.

The 2nd gen front suspension is simpler and in my mind more rugged than later generations, but also is pretty short throw (about 4", vs the 7-8" of later gens). Because of that, some kind of locker is almost a must for a trail 2nd gen. Otherwise you'll be hung up on cross-axled situations all the time.

With a locker, however, the 2nd gen is very capable off-road. The stock ground clearance under the body and frame is awesome, and the short wheelbase and narrow track make it very agile on the trails. Also, you can put 33" tires on a 2nd gen with no modifications.

Other than the head gaskets (which is by no means a problem on all engines), the 3vze V6 is a very solid engine and will easily go well past 200K miles. With a 5 speed transmission, power is reasonable and it will go 75 on the highway with no trouble except for the really big hills. Lo-range provides plenty of torque for off-roading.

I've been happy with mine - it's taken me everywhere I've asked it to in the back country, and just keeps going. I think the 2nd gens are a good combination of small size, ground clearance, and offroad capability balanced against reasonable highway manners and comfort, but obviously everybody draws that line in a different place.

 

[128keaton]

As said, the 3rd gen has more power, a longer wheelbase by 3", wider track, and more interior room. The 3rd gen will carry 4 adults comfortably; with the 2nd gen they'd best be small. 2nd gen has a fold-down tailgate which is awesome for offroad camping.

The 2nd gen front suspension is simpler and in my mind more rugged than later generations, but also is pretty short throw (about 4", vs the 7-8" of later gens). Because of that, some kind of locker is almost a must for a trail 2nd gen. Otherwise you'll be hung up on cross-axled situations all the time.

With a locker, however, the 2nd gen is very capable off-road. The stock ground clearance under the body and frame is awesome, and the short wheelbase and narrow track make it very agile on the trails. Also, you can put 33" tires on a 2nd gen with no modifications.

Other than the head gaskets (which is by no means a problem on all engines), the 3vze V6 is a very solid engine and will easily go well past 200K miles. With a 5 speed transmission, power is reasonable and it will go 75 on the highway with no trouble except for the really big hills. Lo-range provides plenty of torque for off-roading.

I've been happy with mine - it's taken me everywhere I've asked it to in the back country, and just keeps going. I think the 2nd gens are a good combination of small size, ground clearance, and offroad capability balanced against reasonable highway manners and comfort, but obviously everybody draws that line in a different place.

I had a much shorter, less beautiful version of this in my head, but this speaks clearly. Plus, I think the styling is the right combo of utilitarian, and actual style. Its Fierce!

 

[kenwood1986]

I love my second gen ! (1995) it gets a lot of hate from all over the board but it all depends on what you like . Personally I like the body style much more than later generations, I think it looks much more aggressive , and obviously the tailgate is a huge plus . Also I think the interiors are awesome , I love the way the dash is designed , with the exception of the placement of the clock which is really a burden to see . The fabric design on the seats I think are just cool .
The 3vze receives a lot of hate , and some of it is justified . it's under-powered to move something so heavy , but it's okay . Head-gaskets are an issue , but mine is getting ready to turn over 200,000 miles and has yet to have a problem . I have never had any reliability issues with it . It is my daily driver and I frequently take it on trips of 100+ miles . Towing a small utility trailer is never a problem either . The 5-speed definitely helps the 3vze, and I can't say I would really want one with an automatic . Highway cruising is fine , I can't say I like riding at 3,000rpms at 70mph for extended periods of time but I've never had an issue . This is due to the 4.56 rear gear.
It's very capable off-road . Mine is completely stock and it does about anything I ask it to do . It loves the snow too .
Finding one in good condition can be a bit of a problem , but I was lucky and was able to buy mine from the original owner , who took fairly good care of it . Save for the tear in the driver seat and the cracked dash , the interior was perfect . The clear on the hood and roof was gone , but oh well . I love my 4runner , it's the perfect in-between for me . A little more comfortable and roomy for hauling the family around and road trips than a first gen , and more aggressive and cooler looking than the following gens IMO .
Just get what you want , it all comes down to what you like .

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

The 3rd gen is the new and improved 2nd gen, it's better execution of the same basic design. They worked out all of the bugs with the old one, and then gave it some more power to boot. It's what the 2nd gen was trying to be.

The 86-95 (1st & 2nd gen) independent front suspension is a far cry from the 3rd gen's IFS. You'll be set back from coil springs to torsion bars.

Say goodbye to modern rack and pinion steering, and hello to a steering box, drag links, stabilizer, and idler + pitman arms.

As others have said, the 3RZ makes the same power as the 3VZ. Reliability, MPG, ease of serviceability, and aftermarket support all go to the 3rd gen with the 3RZ, hands down.

Automatic transmissions are not forever - manual swaps are documented online and entirely doable.

 

[HiLuxer]

I don't know what your criteria is but I'd look for a V6 1st gen that would be in the same price range, or maybe a bit higher but you have the cool factor of the removable top and more classic look. Of course, the 22RE 1st gen is ideal but the price seems to have climbed up as of late.

The only cooler function the 2nd gen has over your 3rd gen is the rear tailgate. And that's about it. Just my opinion, I guess.

 

[offroadxplr]

Semi-relevant: I went from a 3rd gen to a 1st Gen.

I like the simplicity of the 22RE and 5 speed. I like the classic styling and removable top. I actually get better gas mileage DDing it.
I miss the power and being able to cruise at 75, even up hills. I also miss the coil rear suspension. With LC coils and shocks I had more travel than most people would think necessary.

Would I do it again? Yes. Mostly because I saved about $2200 selling my 3rd and buying a 1st gen (which was the whole reason for the switch in the first place).

I think that, sure, the 30 year old vehicle might have more problems than the 15 year old one. But so far (only 3k miles), my 1st gen has been as reliable as the 3rd gen was.

 

[cantaloop]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Im about to pull the trigger on a LT second gen, already has coilovers and all, so no worrying about torsion bars. Looks really solid, only thing im worried about is a 3vz with a little over 210k. I see a rebuild or 5vz swap in my future. And its only 2 years older than my 3rd gen, so really not that bad.


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[Minimex88]

I'm on my 3rd 2nd gen after a couple strokes of bad luck with a PO and a bad driver that opted to hit me and buy me a new one. I love the 2nd gens, they're small but extremely offroad capable. They are a dime a dozen but that's kind of a good thing. If you break one you just buy another and swap your mods to that one instead. I'm in the process of doing that right now actually.

 

[Dropzone]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Im about to pull the trigger on a LT second gen, already has coilovers and all, so no worrying about torsion bars. Looks really solid, only thing im worried about is a 3vz with a little over 210k. I see a rebuild or 5vz swap in my future. And its only 2 years older than my 3rd gen, so really not that bad.


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post some pics when you get the new truck!

 

[RonJR]

Looks really solid, only thing im worried about is a 3vz with a little over 210k. I see a rebuild or 5vz swap in my future.
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Who knows how long that 3vze will last. Mine has 215K on it and it runs better now than when I bought the truck 85,000 miles ago. Oil consumption is negligible. I never give it a second thought as to it letting me down. Just change the oil regularly and drive it.

Might want to change the plugs and do a compression test while you have them out. That will tell you if the valves are still OK or are in need of adjustment. Adjusting them is a pain, so most folks don't recommend it unless they need it.

Another thing you can do is rent a pressure tester from Autozone and pump up the cooling system to about 16-18 psi to check for leaks and pressure loss. That will also serve as another check on the head gasket.

Timing belt may be due, but it's a non-interference engine, so no damage if it breaks.

Beyond that, change all the fluids for which you don't know the history. GL-4 is best in the tranny, GL-5 in the other gear boxes. While you're in the area, pull the differential breathers and make sure they're not plugged. That could save you a blown axle seal.

Finally, take a read through this thread. Lots of good info for new 3vze and 2nd gen owners.
https://www.yotatech.com/f116/what-everyone-should-know-about-their-truck-3vze-187741/

Enjoy your new 2nd gen!