3rd Gen vs. 5th Gen

[JohnsD90]

For comparision reasons i parked nexted to the "at the car wash 3 times a week" 2010 limited 4runner, i noticed that the 5 Gen although set up for offroading and stuff would seem there is a 3" difference between where the my door sills are and the 5th gens are, mine are much higher up, and they are almost the same height. Obviously mine is better looking, i dont need you guys to tell me that, but somewhere along the line the 4runner lost its simplistic utilitarian designs and went with a bulky more family based and what looks to be plastic styling (I didnt touch it). And IMO it has seemingly been downgraded over time with the illusion of being upgraged.

 

[Duhockey]

Yours may not be the best example of a 3rd gen to 5th gen comparison, as you have the chrome fender flares which was one of the biggest mistakes of the 3rd gen, along with "Pink Milkshake"

but in essence you are mostly correct.

the new 4runners are a joke and a slap in the face to one of the greatest SUV's ever made...

its like Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel then some dork thinking they can improve on it and hiring Thomas Kinkade to "fix" and upgrade it !!! :thanks:

:0)

have I sufficiently stirred the pot?!?! :0)

 

[JohnsD90]

...as you have the chrome fender flares which was one of the biggest mistakes of the 3rd gen...

I wouldn't have them if someone would sell me his black ones.

 

[Thai]

For comparision reasons i parked nexted to the "at the car wash 3 times a week" 2010 limited 4runner, i noticed that the 5 Gen although set up for offroading and stuff would seem there is a 3" difference between where the my door sills are and the 5th gens are, mine are much higher up, and they are almost the same height. Obviously mine is better looking, i dont need you guys to tell me that, but somewhere along the line the 4runner lost its simplistic utilitarian designs and went with a bulky more family based and what looks to be plastic styling (I didnt touch it). And IMO it has seemingly been downgraded over time with the illusion of being upgraged.

Well, you're comparing your 4runner to the most on-road version of the 5th gen. I would compare your 4runner to the Trail Edition. And i would bet that a 5th gen Trail will be better than a 3rd gen, on-road and off-road.

 

[kregg]

Meh... Comparisons re all opinion based anyways. I think my truck is the baddest SUV on the planet. I love the look and feel of the new 5th gen... as a family-based-mall-crawling kid shuttle. For hitting the trails, I really like my 3rd gen. It just feels more truck-like and tougher. Less "brain" involved in driving the 5th gen, but off-road I want to know what my truck is going to do, not letting it drive for me. All the new systems and such on the new vehicles leave that much more room for error, instead of letting the driver really be in control. It's all in the eye of the be"holder" of the steering wheel...

 

[Thai]

Meh... Comparisons re all opinion based anyways. I think my truck is the baddest SUV on the planet. I love the look and feel of the new 5th gen... as a family-based-mall-crawling kid shuttle. For hitting the trails, I really like my 3rd gen. It just feels more truck-like and tougher. Less "brain" involved in driving the 5th gen, but off-road I want to know what my truck is going to do, not letting it drive for me. All the new systems and such on the new vehicles leave that much more room for error, instead of letting the driver really be in control. It's all in the eye of the be"holder" of the steering wheel...

Not really. The new technologies are OPTIONAL. That is, if you want to use it, then you can. If you don't, then you don't turn it on. For example, on the Trail Edition, you can just use the rear locker without ATRAC or CRAWL. Or you could just use ATRAC and not the rear locker if you have to make frequent turns off-road.

Tougher? I don't know. According to Toyota published reports in 2003, the 4th gen's frame was stronger than the 3rd gen. And now, the 2010 4runner frame has apparently been strengthened over the 4th gen.

The only really big advantage of the 3rd gen is its smaller size (narrow). But, other than that, i can't think of anything else. The 5th gen has the rear locker, super traction control, rear disc brakes (superior to rear drums), more articulation (via KDSS), more power, better crawl ratio (a biggie in off-roading IMO), etc..

 

[simple]

I'm going to have to agree with Thai on this... apples to oranges. The limited is essentially a smaller sequioa. The trail/sr5 and limited are extremely different. You want to see a BA 5th gen that will compare? Look at harper's.

 

[JohnsD90]

Not really. The new technologies are OPTIONAL. That is, if you want to use it, then you can. If you don't, then you don't turn it on. For example, on the Trail Edition, you can just use the rear locker without ATRAC or CRAWL. Or you could just use ATRAC and not the rear locker if you have to make frequent turns off-road.

Tougher? I don't know. According to Toyota published reports in 2003, the 4th gen's frame was stronger than the 3rd gen. And now, the 2010 4runner frame has apparently been strengthened over the 4th gen.

The only really big advantage of the 3rd gen is its smaller size (narrow). But, other than that, i can't think of anything else. The 5th gen has the rear locker, super traction control, rear disc brakes (superior to rear drums), more articulation (via KDSS), more power, better crawl ratio (a biggie in off-roading IMO), etc..

Traction Control is terrible for off-road applications, the 3rd gen had a locker too, the 3rd gen is by far stronger than the 5th gen, adding a bit of extra metal to the frame doesnt make the whole truck better, when they made more shit on it plastic and and dropped the duruability factor, If you want to read the brochure aloud like your are currently doing be my guest, but if you really want to see the better one, look around in 15 years and see how many of these heaps will be in the scrapyard. The 5th gen is a product of what toyota is today, and unfortunatley it hurts the 4runner name.

 

[Thai]

Traction Control is terrible for off-road applications, the 3rd gen had a locker too, the 3rd gen is by far stronger than the 5th gen, adding a bit of extra metal to the frame doesnt make the whole truck better, when they made more shit on it plastic and and dropped the duruability factor, If you want to read the brochure aloud like your are currently doing be my guest, but if you really want to see the better one, look around in 15 years and see how many of these heaps will be in the scrapyard. The 5th gen is a product of what toyota is today, and unfortunatley it hurts the 4runner name.

Here you go again John with your fanboy crap...show me some facts to back up ANY of your statements. :dammit:

What do you know about traction control off-road??? Have you experienced it? Do you know that A-TRAC in the Trail Edition is DIFFERENT than the run-of-the-mill traction control?? Dude, do your research BEFORE spouting off! What is on the 3rd gen? Stronger? That would be the frame...and it is FACT that the frame on the 4th gen is STRONGER than the 3rd gen.

Durability? When did the 5th gen fall? or the 4th gen for that matter? And which vehicle is better in a crash? Not even close.

 

[Duhockey]

Here you go again John with your fanboy crap...show me some facts to back up ANY of your statements. :dammit:

What do you know about traction control off-road??? Have you experienced it? Do you know that A-TRAC in the Trail Edition is DIFFERENT than the run-of-the-mill traction control?? Dude, do your research BEFORE spouting off! What is on the 3rd gen? Stronger? That would be the frame...and it is FACT that the frame on the 4th gen is STRONGER than the 3rd gen.

Durability? When did the 5th gen fall? or the 4th gen for that matter? And which vehicle is better in a crash? Not even close.

Well, I can tell you one thing, the last thing John is a fanboy... if anything he is a VW and Land Rover fanboy. He has nothing but a critical approach to the 4runner which is where he got his appreciation for it.

and not to get too much into this, but making a frame stronger means nothing when you make the exterior weaker... which is why any car from the 60's would rip thru a new 4runner like its butter... the actual body of a 3rd gen should slow down another car signifigantly before it hits the frame...

I find it funny that new cars need more side airbags and safety features when their early predecessors needed none of that. all that was done was sacrifice weight and gas mileage to make a lighter plasticky car. And this is not just a Toyota thing...

when was the last time a metal bumper was put on a 4runner?? 3rd gen... that bumper alone improves the strength of the vehicle.. just ask the 4th gen owner in my apt complex with a busted up bumper and mine that has run into rocks and is still fine...

just my observances though

 

[Thai]

Well, I can tell you one thing, the last thing John is a fanboy... if anything he is a VW and Land Rover fanboy. He has nothing but a critical approach to the 4runner which is where he got his appreciation for it.

and not to get too much into this, but making a frame stronger means nothing when you make the exterior weaker... which is why any car from the 60's would rip thru a new 4runner like its butter... the actual body of a 3rd gen should slow down another car signifigantly before it hits the frame...

I find it funny that new cars need more side airbags and safety features when their early predecessors needed none of that.

just my observances though

And this video will totally utterly disprove what you just wrote: YouTube - IIHS 50th Anniversary Crash Test

I am still waiting for you guys to backup any of what you guys have said. Steel bumpers went out the door to create a better crush zone in a crash AND also to minimize damage in a gentle collision.

 

[Clemsonfan15]

The only really big advantage of the 3rd gen is its smaller size (narrow). But, other than that, i can't think of anything else. The 5th gen has the rear locker, super traction control, rear disc brakes (superior to rear drums), more articulation (via KDSS), more power, better crawl ratio (a biggie in off-roading IMO), etc..

The 3rd Gen has a rear locker as well.

How does KDSS give it more articulation?

 

[SecretAgent]

sorry guys, but Thai's got ya'll on this one. The 5th gen is superior to the 3rd gen in every way, besides maybe looks, but that's subjective. Reliablity is going to be just as good on the 5th's as it is on the 3rd's and 4th's as they're not an entirely new vehicle, but an evolution of the old model.

those old cars may look safe, but in any type of collision higher than parking lot speeds, a new vehicle, is far superior as far as safety for the occupants is concerned. watch that video Thai posted...the results will suprise you.

 

[Duhockey]

And this video will totally utterly disprove what you just wrote: YouTube - IIHS 50th Anniversary Crash Test

I am still waiting for you guys to backup any of what you guys have said. Steel bumpers went out the door to create a better crush zone in a crash AND also to minimize damage in a gentle collision.

I dont know... I see the video, but everyone of those videos shows a half front collision... the strength of the older cars is in the steel and a straight on head 2 head collision or side swipe.. editok, after doing some studying, the IIHS does that cuz the government only does str8 on collisions, and its not as great of a "real world" test)

with weight and speed on its side, I dont get how you get over physics... "an object in motion, tends to stay in motion til and equal and opposite force acts upon it" and a lighter, softer car may have a crumple zone to help the fender and push the impact around the cab (which is how all these new cars work) but the fact of the matter is that weight and steel win... over light and plastic in the end.

I have seen accidents with my own eyes that prove this point... (sorry I didnt have a video camera ready while I was driving!) I am searching though and will get back to you on this...

I dont see how its possible that the 5th gen is "stronger" "safer"?? possibly... but only because of crumple zones etc, not because its built better... again, time will tell.

in 14 years we will see if the percentage of 2010 models on the rode match the percentage of 96 4runners still on the road.

edit: So, I think after watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_hFog1Nskk and its part 2, Ill say that none of the SUVs in 96 did good! Ill concur with Thai that the cars nowadays are safer, But again, that doesnt mean they are superior, built better, have as good of quality, etc. so as far as safety you have to say apples and oranges

 

[Duhockey]

sorry guys, but Thai's got ya'll on this one. The 5th gen is superior to the 3rd gen in every way, besides maybe looks, but that's subjective. Reliablity is going to be just as good on the 5th's as it is on the 3rd's and 4th's as they're not an entirely new vehicle, but an evolution of the old model.

those old cars may look safe, but in any type of collision higher than parking lot speeds, a new vehicle, is far superior as far as safety for the occupants is concerned. watch that video Thai posted...the results will suprise you.

your first comment is just completely wrong... even if the 4th and 5th Gens are safer, that has nothing to do with the quality, reliability, etc. the video Thai posted does indicate that the newer cars are "safer" due to technological advances, but that doesnt even indicate that they are superior...

and see my last post for my questions on why the "50th birthday" videos seem a little rigged toward the newer cars

lets run em into walls or head on!! LOL :lookout:

 

[Thai]

I dont know... I see the video, but everyone of those videos shows a half front collision... the strength of the older cars is in the steel and a straight on head 2 head collision or side swipe..

with weight and speed on its side, I dont get how you get over physics... "an object in motion, tends to stay in motion til and equal and opposite force acts upon it" and a lighter, softer car may have a crumple zone to help the fender and push the impact around the cab (which is how all these new cars work) but the fact of the matter is that weight and steel win... over light and plastic in the end.

I have seen accidents with my own eyes that prove this point... (sorry I didnt have a video camera ready while I was driving!) I am searching though and will get back to you on this...

I dont see how its possible that the 4th gen is "stronger" "safer"?? possibly... but only because of crumple zones etc, not because its built better... again, time will tell.

in 14 years we will see if the percentage of 2010 models on the rode match the percentage of 96 4runners still on the road.

A few points for you to consider:

1. An offset frontal collision tests body structure strength MORE than a full frontal collision. You got it backwards! So, yes, the data result from the video shows you that body strength is superior in the modern vehicle.

2. If you want to compare full frontal crashworthiness, then just look at NHTSA data...they test full frontal collision to test restraint system. In other words, IIHS test protocol tests structural strength, while NHTSA tests restraint system. Either way, the newer 4runners are far superior.

3. You mentioned weight and physics...excellent. Of course, the 4th and 5th gen 4runners weigh MORE than the 3rd gen...so, there goes that argument by you! Frames in the 4th and 5th gen are significantly bigger AND thicker!!

4. You want to see a truck with metal bumpers in a crash test? Look up prior generation Ford F150 or Chevy Silverado...and compare that with the Tundra. BIG DIFFERENCE!!

5. Remember, the frame is still steel. The hood and fenders are still steel. If you base your whole argument on steel bumpers, then you are really not basing it on any facts.

6. Lastly, lighter does not always mean less steel. Remember, modern cars use high-tensile steel which is much lighter than conventional steel yet much stronger. In fact, in the Toyota press, the 5th gen's frame is reinforced by high-tensile steel. So, the 4th and 5th gen frame may be similar in weight, but the 5th gen frame is likely stronger.

About the ONLY thing that i feel is better in the 3rd gen (besides it being narrow for off-roading) is the interior plastics. The 3rd gen has nice quality interior plastics.

Oh yeah, i owned a 3rd gen...and i have never owned a 4th nor a 5th gen...but i am not blind by obvious facts either.

 

[Thai]

the video Thai posted does indicate that the newer cars are "safer" due to technological advances, but that doesnt even indicate that they are superior:

Huh? Are we seeing the same video??!! Dude, the Malibu just went right through the old Chevy Bel Air like it was butter! That has nothing to do with airbags. The Malibu's fender went to the backseat of that Bel Air!!

BTW, the Malibu is not even IIHS top rated midsize sedan!

 

[JohnsD90]

sorry guys, but Thai's got ya'll on this one. The 5th gen is superior to the 3rd gen in every way, besides maybe looks, but that's subjective. Reliablity is going to be just as good on the 5th's as it is on the 3rd's and 4th's as they're not an entirely new vehicle, but an evolution of the old model.

haha, good one.

 

[Duhockey]

Huh? Are we seeing the same video??!! Dude, the Malibu just went right through the old Chevy Bel Air like it was butter! That has nothing to do with airbags. The Malibu's fender went to the backseat of that Bel Air!!

BTW, the Malibu is not even IIHS top rated midsize sedan!

Yeah... you dont seem to understand that Safety alone does not make a "superior" vehicle

I already conceded that todays cars are far safer after doing a little studying following your statements. But I still wont concede that safety is all there is to make a "better" car.

And I have no idea what you are talking about "airbags", Crumple zones that send the impact around the cars cabin are the technological breakthrus that have lead to "safer" cars. However, even the IIHS rep in the video I posted states that heavier vehicles in the same class tend to do better in crash tests.

I am unable to find any video of 3rd gen 4runners running into any 5th gen ones... so we just have to assume that the Chevy Malibu vs. Bel Air vehicles that are 50 years apart would be the closest representation of vehicles 8-14 years apart??

INSPITE of the fact that you are taking a video of Chevys 50 years apart and applying that to 4Runners that are at most 14 years apart, I will concede on the safety issue.

You have still yet to prove to me that "more technology" makes a better more reliable, higher quality car...

or do I need to bring up plastic accelerator pedals of which NO Toyota had a problem with in the 90's and early 2000's... :bigok:

 

[LINY4Runner]

i think they're both cool trucks

so everyone shut up :fro:

lol