3rd Gen vs. 5th Gen

[Thai]

I really hope that the 2010 will be there with your 85 or my 96 toyota, but from what I have seen from the 2010, I just dont think so.

I just dont see the 2010s following in those footsteps.

And those are some BIG footsteps, but you know what, I guess you are right, only time will tell :driving: Happy driving! Im out!

You accuse him of assuming that the 5th gen is as reliable as the 3rd gen, yet you assume that the 5th gen won't be. What is the difference between his assumption and yours?

4th gen 4runners were very reliable and durable, on par with 3rd gen. The 5th gen is really (as i have argued all along) a major facelift of the 4th gen with the same major mechanical components either being the same or improved upon. For example, the frame was strengthened, the rear diff got bigger, etc.. I really don't see how the 5th gen will suddenly go in the crappers in terms of reliability and durability. I really don't.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Ok, lets take the driver out of the equation. What makes Thegreenmonsters stock 97 so special? Does he have a rear locker? Lets talk facts and specs of a vehicle, not assumptions nor opinions.

aside from the specs i already posted, nothing

 

[JohnsD90]

Ok, lets take the driver out of the equation. What makes Thegreenmonsters stock 97 so special? Does he have a rear locker? Lets talk facts and specs of a vehicle, not assumptions nor opinions.

Nothing is special, besides the rack, bumper and 15k miles we have the same truck, he has no locker, thats the damn point, it can outwheel the new ones no problem.

 

[Thai]

Since you completely miss my point on everything... as is standard in all your little posts... Ill just say this...

Thegreenmonsters stock 97 who just this weekend showed up a 4th gen lifted runner!!

That is a cheap comeback. What was your point again? So, your statement is that the 3rd gen is a SUPERIOR vehicle over the 5th gen, right? Tell me more. Simple request.

What does Thegreenmonsters showing up a lifted 4th gen have to do with this? Driver experience? How did he show him up?

 

[Thai]

Nothing is special, besides the rack, bumper and 15k miles we have the same truck, he has no locker, thats the damn point, it can outwheel the new ones no problem.

Then, thegreenmonsters is an excellent driver.

But, no, you can't escape the fact that given two equal driver, a 5th gen Trail will be better off-road than Thegreenmonsters 4runner.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Nothing is special, besides the rack, bumper and 15k miles we have the same truck, he has no locker, thats the point, it can outwheel the new ones no problem.

i didn't say that. i don't think the 3rd can necessarily out wheel the 5th. i just think it is a easier vehicle to drive on the trail. its the same with my dads 06 tacoma. longer, wider, lower breakover angle, harder to see (blindspots) etc etc etc..

 

[JohnsD90]

Then, thegreenmonsters is an excellent driver.

But, no, you can't escape the fact that given two equal driver, a 5th gen Trail will be better off-road than Thegreenmonsters 4runner.

Thats where your wrong, your under the assumption that the locker and traction control will win it for ya, but really the 3rd gen was designed to run open axles with lockers as a bonus and IIRC the 3 3rd gens that did MOAB and posted up here didnt have lockers, i would like to see the 5th gens run that.


But you never answered my question, How many trucks in King of the Hammers run with Traction Control? If it is this superior offroad capability i would expect the people who compete in competition to have it.

 

[Thai]

BTW if this so called Traction control was so ****ing superior offroading then tell me, How many of the trucks that participate in King of the Hammers have Traction Control?

Why don't you stroll yourself over to the FJ forum and read up on it, ok? I agree...a locker is better off-road than traction control...this is why a full set of lockers is the norm in these off-road competitions. However, short of a front locker, A-TRAC is the next best thing. Do you see people in these off-road competitions having open differentials front and rear like your 4runner? No. Again, remind me your point again?

The 5th gen has a rear locker PLUS front axle super aggressive traction control, thus making it superior to your OPEN front DIFFERENTIAL. How you do not get this point is beyond me!!

BTW, A-TRAC is super aggressive and will stop a spinning tire completely to let the other tire on the same axle get more power. A-TRAC is different than the 4th gen's traction control...A-TRAC is only available when you're in 4-LO...it is a pure off-roading tool, just like a locker. Is it as good as a locker? No, but very close. And since it does allow you to steer, it is a bit more flexible for the average user than a locker.

 

[Thai]

Thats where your wrong, your under the assumption that the locker and traction control will win it for ya, but really the 3rd gen was designed to run open axles with lockers as a bonus and IIRC the 3 3rd gens that did MOAB and posted up here didnt have lockers, i would like to see the 5th gens run that.

Dude, you're a fanboy...please stop, you're embarrassing youself! Oh my goodness, you have no clue! Thanks for the laugh...i gotta go to sleep, but at least, i had a good laugh.

Psst...the 5th gen did the Rubicon Trail.

Oh yeah, an axle that was NOT designed for a locker means that it is an axle that is too weak for a locker. Think about that for a moment. An axle that is designed for a locker is a stronger axle. Even though your argument is totally wrong, IF you are right, then the 3rd gen 4runner axle is not particularly good. Thank goodness that you're wrong!

Again, please stop the insanity!!!!!!!

 

[steezemcqueen]

Dude, you're a fanboy...please stop, you're embarrassing youself! Oh my goodness, you have no clue! Thanks for the laugh...i gotta go to sleep, but at least, i had a good laugh.

Psst...the 5th gen did the Rubicon Trail.

Again, please stop the insanity!!!!!!!

good arguing with ya :hatsoff:

 

[Thai]

your under the assumption that the locker and traction control will win it for ya

If you take the driver out of the equation, THEN YES, A LOCKER PLUS TRACTION CONTROL WILL WIN EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME OFF-ROAD OVER AN OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. No doubt about it.

Thegreenmonsters has corrected your wild assumptions...i would listen to him. : You, sir, have no freaking clue.

 

[Thai]

good arguing with ya :hatsoff:

Same here. Goodnight.

 

[JohnsD90]

Why don't you stroll yourself over to the FJ forum and read up on it, ok? I agree...a locker is better off-road than traction control...this is why a full set of lockers is the norm in these off-road competitions. However, short of a front locker, A-TRAC is the next best thing. Do you see people in these off-road competitions having open differentials front and rear like your 4runner? No. Again, remind me your point again?

The 5th gen has a rear locker PLUS front axle super aggressive traction control, thus making it superior to your OPEN front DIFFERENTIAL. How you do not get this point is beyond me!!

BTW, A-TRAC is super aggressive and will stop a spinning tire completely to let the other tire on the same axle get more power. A-TRAC is different than the 4th gen's traction control...A-TRAC is only available when you're in 4-LO...it is a pure off-roading tool, just like a locker. Is it as good as a locker? No, but very close. And since it does allow you to steer, it is a bit more flexible for the average user than a locker.

You can steer on a locker, not as much though, and this is exactly what i mean, they designed the vehicle with knowledge that they would have these "driver aids" run them both open without lockers and traction control and see who wins. A locker is like nitrious, a serious boost of speed, but it wasnt there to begin with, just a cheap replacement for a lazy design.

 

[Thai]

You can steer on a locker, not as much though, and this is exactly what i mean, they designed the vehicle with knowledge that they would have these "driver aids" run them both open without lockers and traction control and see who wins. A locker is like nitrious, a serious boost of speed, but it wasnt there to begin with, just a cheap replacement for a lazy design.

Damn it!! My G-wagen must be a POS because it comes with BOTH traction control and a full set of lockers!! Crap!! :roadkill: Damn 30+ years of German lazy overengineering! John, thanks man for such amazing insight...i don't know what i would have done without you pointing this out to me! I just save it up and link it everytime we have a discussion! :thumb3:

 

[steezemcqueen]

You can steer on a locker, not as much though, and this is exactly what i mean, they designed the vehicle with knowledge that they would have these "driver aids" run them both open without lockers and traction control and see who wins. A locker is like nitrious, a serious boost of speed, but it wasnt there to begin with, just a cheap replacement for a lazy design.

i see your point

IF the 3rd had ATRAC, the locker, similar tires etc., i think it would outwheel the Trail.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Damn it!! My G-wagen must be a POS because it comes with BOTH traction control and a full set of lockers!! Crap!! :roadkill: Damn 30+ years of German lazy overengineering! John, thanks man for such amazing insight...i don't know what i would have done without you pointing this out to me! I just save it up and link it everytime we have a discussion! :thumb3:

i think what john means is that while the 5th lacks in some areas, they make up for it with the locker and ATRAC.

which is why i said that i don't think either one can out wheel the other.

 

[Duhockey]

Solution

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/t4r-m...-u-n-n-e-r-challenge-colorado.html#post533873

:thumb3:

You are :welcome:

 

[Thai]

i see your point

IF the 3rd had ATRAC, the locker, similar tires etc., i think it would outwheel the Trail.

I agree...if the 3rd gen had the same technology or gearing, then yeah, the 3rd gen may potentially be a better off-roader. But, in reality, it does not. We don't need to daydream...lets stick to reality.

 

[steezemcqueen]

I agree...if the 3rd gen had the same technology or gearing, then yeah, the 3rd gen may potentially be a better off-roader. But, in reality, it does not. We don't need to daydream...lets stick to reality.

yes indeed....but i can dream

 

[JohnsD90]

Damn it!! My G-wagen must be a POS because it comes with BOTH traction control and a full set of lockers!! Crap!! :roadkill: Damn 30+ years of German lazy overengineering! John, thanks man for such amazing insight...i don't know what i would have done without you pointing this out to me! I just save it up and link it everytime we have a discussion! :thumb3:

Now this is what you do, you twist words and statements on people, Now i do think the American G-wagon is a pile of shit but that is another story, what i said was that toyota was lazy on there designing in capabilities of the 2010 Trail edition, and they used these Driver Aids as a sort of quick fix to the lacking of capabilities it had prior. Go settle this in the 4-R-U-N-N-E-R Challenge, not that its really necessary. Now I am done here, twist these words as much as you like, i really couldnt give a sh1t now.