4Runner 4WD vs. Subaru Outback

[alaskaman]

lets see.......so if you get up in the morning and you have 12" in the driveway with your subaru and your 4Runner facing out and 4 inches of slush and ice after you get into the street you would take the car? I just can't see that in either circumstance pre and post driveway. the 4WD truck will plow through the 12" barrier without competition and crack the ice below the snow and slush easier....it puts more pounds per square in on the tires and in my humble opinion competes well with the lower center of gravity car. ~~~i see you are from Colorado which has the highest number of cities above 5000 ft so if that is your opinion I gotta respect it, but I would rather have the 4WD (with 4 lo for those really tough times).....

 

[mkaresh]

Re: Subaru

Growing up in the northeast I am very familiar with Subaru. I have owned a subaru impreza AWD and my dad owns a Subaru outback.

My dad claims that he prefers his Subaru outback over his 2003 Landrover Discover in the snow.

I haven't driven my dad's outback but I can say that the impreza was ok in the snow. I would say that it is noticeably better than any front wheel drive car in the snow but doesn't compare to any 4wd suv I have driven (CHEROKEE, 94 JIMMY, LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90, GRAND CHEROKEE).

I DROVE THE IMPREZA DURING A BLIZZARD ON A 3 HOUR TRIP AND IT TOOK ME 8 HOURS AND THERE WAS A COUPLE TIMES I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO SLIDE OF THE ROAD (MAINLY THE ON RAMP BECAUSE IT IS ANGLED).

I THINK THE SOMETIMES CARS CAN BE TOO LIGHT AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS AWD, IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE WEIGHT TO GET GOOD TACTION.

Sounds like the Impreza didn't have the best tires for snow and ice. Put winter tires on one and it should go through just about anything. Think of how much difference proper boots make for walking on ice and snow. Same thing.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

lets see.......so if you get up in the morning and you have 12" in the driveway with your subaru and your 4Runner facing out and 4 inches of slush and ice after you get into the street you would take the car? I just can't see that in either circumstance pre and post driveway. the 4WD truck will plow through the 12" barrier without competition and crack the ice below the snow and slush easier....it puts more pounds per square in on the tires and in my humble opinion competes well with the lower center of gravity car. ~~~i see you are from Colorado which has the highest number of cities above 5000 ft so if that is your opinion I gotta respect it, but I would rather have the 4WD (with 4 lo for those really tough times).....

On regular driven roads the snow rarely gets deep enough and I've yet to use 4lo except on trails and never on our public roads.

I drove my Eclipse around up in the Conifer area (7000-9000ft asl) for 5 winters and never had a problem except maybe for a little driveway trouble. Deep snow can still be a problem with less clearance but around here in town you don't need too much clearance to get around. I live in a townhome complex and my neighbor bolted out of his garage with his WRX through 14" of snow for 20 feet and made it fine but anything past that he might have gotten stuck.

A 4Runner only weighs about a 1000 more lbs than my Eclipse but also rememeber that the weight will make a difference in cornering and stopping hence the lower weight would still have more control overall. Also when braking on ice the heavier vehicle will take longer to stop period since that same weight is appling a lot of pressure to the ice making it melt faster hence it become slicker and takes longer to stop.

I ice raced my Eclipse for 3 race seasons and the heavier SUVs out there competing weren't touching the times of the AWD cars thus they were in a different class.

Like I said on regular driven roads that are just slick 4wd can't offer the control of AWD and I wish I had the multi-mode auto in my 4Runner for those occasions.

 

[alaskaman]

"I live in a townhome complex and my neighbor bolted out of his garage with his WRX through 14" of snow for 20 feet and made it fine but anything past that he might have gotten stuck."

Yah but he wanted to have fun.LOL>. In the arctic (in between Kotzebue and the Russian Penninsula) ice races were very popular and I never saw a SUV out there would have been silly IMO. When I wanted to make a purchase decision on a new vehicle, I had to factor in travel in areas which are heavily snowed and not that frequently plowed. In those cases the advatage of having 4lo and the variable AWD of the 6 cyliner 4Runner is a clear advantage as well as ground clearance, sheer power and torque. In a city environment I would opt for the car due to gas mileage considerations and all around ease of parking etc. Don't you think the options available on the 4runner (4lo, flexibility in the AWD and locking diff) far outwiegh the capabilities of the car? I do.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

If you truly off road and have to go where a car absolutley can't venture I can see taking advantage of the 4Runner's capabilities but if you don't leave the beaten path the car is a better choice with rising fuel costs.

I'm considering a Subi Impreza (non WRX) as my DD and parkign the 4Runner for weekends and certain winter days driving as these gas prices go higher.

 

[alaskaman]

~~ solid planning with gas prices the way they will be for the foreseeable future.

A couple years ago I was driving from Phoenix to Flag a rise of about 7000 feet. Had ice sleet snow thunder lighting..My 2WD 4 Runner slipped only once and got it back real quick....looking forward to 4WD when my order gets here......nice chattin with ya.

 

[Avet14]

OK,

When I first moved to MA back in 2002 I leased myself an 02 Impreza. During the 3 year lease we had some incredible blizzards and I never once felt inconfident in any of those. I NEVER got stuck..... I've driven through 3 FEET (no typo) of snow that was pushed infront of my driveway by the plow trucks. My Impreza had horrible stock tires but that never held me back.

A year after I leased the Impreza my younger brother bought a 99 Landcruiser. It also was very good in the snow but its sheer size and weight made it less desireable in icey conditions.

Going up an icey hill the truck would slide backwards from its weight. Going down that hill was even more dangerous because any application of the brakes caused it to slide sideways.

Another advantage of the Impreza was the fact that it was a manual allowed me to quickly switch from forward to reverse, so on that same hill going downhill if I felt the brakes were not holding I'd immediately be able to switch into reverse and save myself.

Also subarus "lack" of electronic stability and traction control gives the driver more mechanical control of the situation.

So for anything under a foot and a half of continuous snow, the Impreza was the better car.

 

[Neversummer]

If you are talking about true off road and "wheeling" then obviously there is no comparison.

BUT, if you are talking about driving on the road in bad weather - rain, sleet, or snow - then the Subaru ASYM awd system is far superior.

I have owned and driven quite a few of the AWD systems out there - Quattro, xDrive, 4matic, Haldex/4motion, All-Mode - and the ASYM is better than all. Quattro would be my pick for a close second.

 

[nc211]

In the rain, I'd take a subby over a 4 runner, hands down, any day of the week. I hate driving my 4runner in the rain, even though it is perm 4x4. The height scares me. I've got Michelins, and even though they're probably 70% used up, the front will hydroplane at anything over 50 mph, and scares the crap out of me. The last thing I want to do is roll this thing.

I had a 99' outback, lived in Wilmington, NC. During my evacuation DURING hurricane Flyod, which flooded the entire eastern portion of the state, I was going to Charlotte at 2am, on a 4 lane country road. I BLEW PAST rows and rows of big suvs in the slow lane. The AWD system of that outback was simply amazing. Just hold the wheel, and let the car track itself. I was in complete control, even when I was skiing on a few inches of water. The power would swirl around you, finding the tires with the best grip. When I pulled over to get some gas, one guy in a Pathfinder asked me "what kind of car is that?" I told him, and he said he was buying one. Said he had never seen a rooster tail from a car before.

Had 8 inches of snow down there in 2000. I drove around town and had a blast, always in complete control. I even drove down to the north end of Carolina Beach, where you can drive out onto the sand, and still had a blast, never got stuck.

I sold it for a 01' Maxima, needed more horsepower for where I was living then "B'ham - 'Bama".

Honestly, if my wife hadn't given me so much crap about a station wagon in general, I would of bought a 06' Outback Turbo over my 4 runner. But, she didn't want a wagon. Depending on how much of that drive shaft thump and stinking exhaust I can take, she might just have to put up with a wagon, as I do think one day the runner will be replaced by a turbo outback limited.

 

[Vizwar]

I consider myself an expert winter driver. For 2 years I worked for a ski resort doing security in a Jeep Cherokee. After that I worked as an armed alarm response officer driving an Impala for several years. I previously owned an S-10 blazer and took it to the mountains to play a lot in the winter. I just traded in an '04 Subaru Outback H6 for my 4Runner. Here's my opinion...

The Subaru really is a fantastic car. 73,000 miles it never rattled inside (4Runner rattles at 200mi), the motor is rock solid and strong, and never lost it's tight handling. I had Goodyear Eagle RSA+ tires (Police Interceptor tires) on it, virtually the best it could possibly have. Even with those tires it would occasionally have an issue in the snow because of it's AWD drive system. It ran in 2WD until the computer detected a need for AWD, this is normal. The problem encountered was that if one wheel started to spin the computer would fail to detect it in time, the wheel would spin up, faster than the allowed rotation speed to enage AWD and there you'd sit and spin. Once the wheel slowed down, our you slowed it down to allowable wheel speed to engage, the AWD system would SLAM and engage. Subaru: "this is normal, don't let your wheels spin". Not only was this normal for Subaru but for any AWD of the time. (2004) The benefit to 4x4 is once you begin to accelerate from a stop, you know all 4 wheels will be getting power. No computer latency involved. Still be carefull not to spin all 4 wheels but, duh.

So, while the Subi does do very well in snow and FANTASTIC on wet roads (I live in Seattle) I would prefer to have the 4Runner in snow/ice conditions and lock my center diff to get 50/50 to front and rear. Add the VSC control to manage side to side power and you're set. Just don't drive like you're an M1 tank.

 

[Uneek]

So, while the Subi does do very well in snow and FANTASTIC on wet roads (I live in Seattle) I would prefer to have the 4Runner in snow/ice conditions and lock my center diff to get 50/50 to front and rear. Add the VSC control to manage side to side power and you're set.

You probably already know this... if the center diff is locked, VSC is disabled.

 

[Vizwar]

Ya I suppose I knew that.

 

[Summit]

Remember, most auto Subies are 90/10 torque bias with little in the way of other electronic help. That means most Subies out there are effectively front wheel drive cars until you run into trouble.

Go manual and you get a 50/50, but less flexibility in dividing power. You have to buy an expensive model like an Outback Limited 2.5 XT Turbo and then you get 45/55 distribution, VSC, VTC (ATRAC), and EBD, items that are standard on all T4Rs.

Now, my V6 T4R does full time AWD if I want it and I can lock up the center for city driving and parking lots. I have no idea how the Torsen divides it up. My T4R is only 600# heavier than an Outback, though it it has that higher CoG. Still, I'd take a T4R over any Subaru in the snow except the top end limited Suby models.

That said, I'll take you on in your T4R /w all seasons on with my old Accord with snow tires.

 

[Vizwar]

Still, I'd take a T4R over any Subaru in the snow except the top end limited Suby models.

That said, I'll take you on in your T4R /w all seasons on with my old Accord with snow tires.

Mine was an '04 Outback Limited LL Bean with GY Eagle RSA+. It had the worst electronic traction control. On ice the front wheels would spin, then a SLAM as the rear wheels engaged and you flew off down the road... Sounds cool but it was horrible to drive with and cope with coming off from every stop light. The 4R has been a DREAM. Now if I could just find that damn click in my door panel...

 

[nor cal boy]

i wil vote for the truck. but here in the bay area it dosent snow. ive taken my tuck in the snow once and it was fine. even if the sub was better in snow, id take the 4runner.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

If it was on a road course and in less than 10" of powder my '93 Eclipse GSX would own. :driving:

 

[wjamyers]

You are discussing winter weather conditions on regular roads, right? (Not rock crawlingor off-roading) Subaru's AWD system is extremely good in these conditons. Only Audi's Quattro system can compare among AWD wagons and cars. Most so-called AWD cars today are either front or rear wheel biased that activate AWD only when slippage is detected. The Outback also has higher ground clearance than most cars, if somewhat less than the 4Runner. Subarus have been a drivers choice in New England and eastern ski areas for many years. On a snowy/icy, curvy mountain switchback road I will probably feel more comfortable with an Outback or Forester than any tall, heavy SUV.

With comparable tires, a lower profile and lower weight Outback will perform as good or better in these conditions. Subaru is behind the eight ball in equiping their cars with stability control however.

thank you.

as far as traction goes, Subarus are second to none, IMO. The next question is tires and the one after that is ground clearance which obviously the 4R wins hands down. But on ploughed snowy roads with good snow-rated tires, subies are fantastic.

 

[bama16]

my DD is a 08 legacy gt...that car will go anywhere...i've driven through a foot of powder with snow comin over the windshield and had no problems. i will say having a minimum of 3 wheels spinning does wonders over the 2 on the 4runner...i use all seasons in the winter, and bridgestone RE01r in the summer...car is lowered 1.5", but the 4runner would obviously win where ground clearance is required...i know for a fact that if you put the legacy and my 97 4runner side by side in the same conditions...the subie is gonna leave the 4runner.

 

[AK Kilted Guy]

Living in Fairbanks, Alaska we drive in ice/snow from October - April give or take a week or two.

I see a ton of 4Runners and Subarus running around. I think the two vehicles are apples and oranges. Subuarus are great if you want to stay on the beaten path, (or at least somewhat regularly maintained), and a 4Runner is great if you want to get out in the woods.

Last winter I ran Dueller RVT's for the winter, which did pretty well. This winter I am going to run Blizzaks. I am sure the blizzaks will be great.

 

[muchuanlin]

There's a lot of 4Runners when I was up in Tahoe this winter