4Runner 4WD vs. Subaru Outback

[alaskaman]

I was debating with a friend that in snow and ice conditions the 4Runner is simply superior to the AWD Outback. He disagrees....any one out there agree with me.............or him? Thanks.

 

[Falls]

This forum is for "comparison" & reviews .


There would be no comparison between those 2 vehicles , on road or off , snow , mud , off road.

They are AWD cars and station wagons....for gods sake . Tell him to get a grip !!! The 4R does extremely well on slippery road conditions with different variations of 4wd you can use , the VSC and Atrac .

 

[Gromulus]

I was debating with a friend that in snow and ice conditions the 4Runner is simply superior to the AWD Outback. He disagrees....any one out there agree with me.............or him? Thanks.

You are discussing winter weather conditions on regular roads, right? (Not rock crawlingor off-roading) Subaru's AWD system is extremely good in these conditons. Only Audi's Quattro system can compare among AWD wagons and cars. Most so-called AWD cars today are either front or rear wheel biased that activate AWD only when slippage is detected. The Outback also has higher ground clearance than most cars, if somewhat less than the 4Runner. Subarus have been a drivers choice in New England and eastern ski areas for many years. On a snowy/icy, curvy mountain switchback road I will probably feel more comfortable with an Outback or Forester than any tall, heavy SUV.

With comparable tires, a lower profile and lower weight Outback will perform as good or better in these conditions. Subaru is behind the eight ball in equiping their cars with stability control however.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

The AWD cars are superior in slick conditions since they don't have the weight or the height of a larger SUV. You don't see trucks able to compete with the cars during an ice race at our local autox events up on our frozen lakes.

Put down 6 inches of snow on a coned course in a parking lot and I'll take a base Subi Impreza and whoop a Runner around it. Not really a comparison. Physics are at play here.

I drove a '93 Eclipse GSX up in the mountains for 6 winters and it's AWD system was incredible.

The 4Runner will win when plowing through 8" or more of snow but on just slick surfaces the lighter vehicel will win.

 

[Falls]

I'd still take the 4R even though you are right about being lighter and a lot lower , just dont like cars.

AWD cars are great for what they are designed for and Sub has been doing it for ever and knows the systems. At one point Sub was rated second in quality behind Benz. ( years ago though ).

If anyone ever gets a chance to go out rippin around in a few inches of snow with one , do it , its a fricken blast !!!!!!!!!

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Once my Runner is paid off or pretty close i'm going to get another AWD car (most likely a regular WRX) and just keep the Toyota for the trails and camping.

 

[alaskaman]

Thanks for your responses. For me even though most of my driving currently is going to Tahoe and the like, I will be in deeper stuff back in Alaska. To be sure the Subaru is great and I hear that quite a bit. But after sitting in one and driving one I simply don't like them. Can't put my finger on it, but something about the feel just is not right for me. The 4Runner in my thinking is superior for the kind of driving that happens a lot many locations. I was coming from Phoenix to Flag in March a couple years ago in my current 4Runner. I saw rain turn to sleet turn to snow turn to heavy slush turn to 4 inches on the freeway. The stability of the 4Runner was great and even though a 2WD the tracking was incredible. When the rear wheels slipped they found grip almost immediately. I am planning to enjoy the options of 4WD in the new 4Runner (07 Sport)vehicle I have ordered. I also appreciate being "up" in the cab and being able to see well when in those conditions and have a quick place to "sleep" in case the road is impassible. In heavy snow which can happen within 30 minutes when you have a storm come in quickly, I also think as pointed out here that a Runner will give the driver more options. Now if I was going on well traveled roads the Subaru might be a good choice, but when I am on my own I want the larger heavier 4Runner. I think that in tough condtions the 4 High and 4 Low will be handy.......Just me.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

If in doubt of the depth or severity of the snow I'd rather have my Runner too.

 

[alaskaman]

"if in doubt..........." which is about 70% of the time in my experience...

 

[Uneek]

There's a lot of 4Runners when I was up in Tahoe this winter. I mean I could easily count five or more 4th gens. I got the chance to chat with a guy next to me in a '04 and told him about the forum. Don't know if he ever joined though.

I got the 4Runner mainly to snowboard too, cause I'm too lazy to install chains and I don't want to freeze on the side of the road. So far the 4Runner's been great, especially for those trips.

 

[Baba Booey]

I drive a Subaru Legacy sedan as my commuter car. In winter, I run four studded Nokian Hakka 1's. I can't imagine that there is any vehicle that would perform much better on snow and ice covered roads.

I'm definitely limiting my comments mainly to well-traveled roads. Of course, in very deep snow or off road, the 4Runner would get the nod. But anytime I "need" to get somewhere when the weather is bad, I opt for the Nokian-equipped Subaru.

The flat 4 cylinder engine provides a very low center of gravity and great traction over the front wheels. I've tried to get this thing out of control in snow (in safe places), and it just doesn't want to break loose. The tires have a lot to do with that as well.

 

[alaskaman]

I see, studded tires on any vehicle I think would help a great deal..tell ya what...I have a question, how do you think the 4Runner would do with the same times as your Subaru in those same conditions.... just curious.

Thanks

 

[Baba Booey]

I see, studded tires on any vehicle I think would help a great deal..tell ya what...I have a question, how do you think the 4Runner would do with the same times as your Subaru in those same conditions.... just curious.

Thanks

If the 4Runner had four studded Nokians, I am sure it would perform much better than it does now. I really don't have any problems with the 4Runner, and I am still running the OEM Dueler HTs, and they aren't the greatest tires in the world. In fact, they are rated Traction "B", Temperature "B". Until now, I've never owned a "B" rated traction tire.

However, on plowed and/or packed surfaces, I believe that I would still give the Subaru a slight edge just because of its much smaller size, lighter weight, lower center of gravity, etc. With those studded tires and small size, it's like driving a snowmobile.

My Subaru does not have stability control, and so if I ever did hit a patch of ice or something where the car got loose, I am sure the standard VSC on the 4Runner would be of great advantage. The sedan also does not have any type of traction control, but I've never really needed it because I don't push it to extremes in deep snow, off road, etc. I'm talking about a daily commute on roads that are fairly well maintained, although they can get snow and ice covered.

I do believe that the tires are nearly as important as the vehicle, which is why I bought them. Back in the mid 1990's, one of the car magazines (Car and Driver or Road & Track) did a test where they compared a snow-tire equipped Camry on their snow-covered skidpad against a 4WD Pathfinder with OEM tires. The front-wheel drive Camry consistently outperformed the 4WD Pathfinder on the skidpad. 4WD gives much better forward traction in the snow than 2WD, but in the corners it was the superior grip of the snow tires that ruled the day.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I drove my AWD Eclipse through those 6 winters shod with nothing more than a good brand of an all season radial and never once got stuck.

Yes,snows would've been better but the snow was off the paved areas really quick and snow tires wear like crazy on pavement.

I think AWD makes good tires better and when shod with awesome tires it makes the AWD car even better. Low center of gravity and weight advantage going to the car is the deciding factor.

Even on dry pavement AWD is the advantage;at the strip my GSX was laying down 60' times equivalent to similar cars running slicks vs my all seasons.

So the tire is a big deal but not the deal breaker with AWD.

 

[alaskaman]

Thanks for the informative insights. I appreciate it. Food for thought....

 

[mkaresh]

I've received a number of emails from people dissatisfied with the snow and ice handling of their car, and wanting to know what they should buy to replace it.

I generally tell them that the problem is the tires, not the car.

My personal experience here:

http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=7

I'd rather have a FWD car with winter tires than an AWD car without them on snow and ice. Of course, AWD with proper winter tires is best of all.

The danger of AWD/4WD is that people think that just because they can accelerate better than they can also corner and stop better...

 

[alaskaman]

good article......=)

 

[Black4runner]

Subaru

Growing up in the northeast I am very familiar with Subaru. I have owned a subaru impreza AWD and my dad owns a Subaru outback.

My dad claims that he prefers his Subaru outback over his 2003 Landrover Discover in the snow.

I haven't driven my dad's outback but I can say that the impreza was ok in the snow. I would say that it is noticeably better than any front wheel drive car in the snow but doesn't compare to any 4wd suv I have driven (CHEROKEE, 94 JIMMY, LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90, GRAND CHEROKEE).

I DROVE THE IMPREZA DURING A BLIZZARD ON A 3 HOUR TRIP AND IT TOOK ME 8 HOURS AND THERE WAS A COUPLE TIMES I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO SLIDE OF THE ROAD (MAINLY THE ON RAMP BECAUSE IT IS ANGLED).

I THINK THE SOMETIMES CARS CAN BE TOO LIGHT AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS AWD, IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE WEIGHT TO GET GOOD TACTION.

 

[alaskaman]

I agree but there are some who swear by the lighter more maneuverable car.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Anything under 8" I'll take any AWD car vs a 4wd truck. Now with an AWD tSUV things would be about the same.

If you put down 6" of snow or just a thin slick sheet of snow on a road course the lower center of gravity car would beat the SUV given both are AWD. If the truck is 4WD the car would easily win.